Mo Must Go (Again)

[Fghtr4jc]

So few of us liked this change and even fewer like it after seeing what this change has brought. He may be free, but we are getting what we pay for, and it is crap. Here we go again...

Mo Must Go (Again)!

Credit to Jay for the MMGA line.

[WillLikeWhoa091]

Personally, aside from tonight, I think we've seen a better and more consistent effort since he took over.

With four minor-leaguers in the game tonight against Philly, I don't think I'm quite ready to agree. I think Mo's done pretty well considering what he has to work with.

(Not to mention our starting goalie out)

On a sidenote: Being 1-1-2 and getting four of eight possible points is not that bad for a coach that is trying to pull a team into consistency. It's not like Laviolette was fired because he was a bad coach. He couldn't get the boys motivated. I really do think that we're seeing more of a solid effort in most games. Heck, the first two periods were great tonight. In the third, I think we saw a little bit of the "protect the lead" crap, but Paul Maurice said afterward that that was not something you can do anymore. I don't know if the protect-the-lead play came from him or the players. I'm holding out on hope.

[G-Vegas Caniac]

Unfortunately, we are stuck with him for the rest of the season..I have a feeling JR promised his "best buddy" the rest of the season and I don't see anything changing...:sick:

[KaniacFever]

I for one was not on board with Mo, but I don't blame him fully for tonight. The state this team is in, not just with injuries but with their confidence and syke, I'm not sure any coach could have stopped the bleeding at that point.

You have a team that was responsible for getting their coach fired and their confidence this year is not hard to shake. I'm sure we haven't forgotten the Islanders game where we held a decent lead and about blew it. Or the first Caps game where we blew it in a matter of two minutes. Or the Edmonton game where we blew a sure point in the last minute.

I can't be the only one who saw that collapse starting when they gave up that early goal in the 3rd. They started second guessing themselves again. And it sure as hell didn't help having an AHL defense making typical AHL mistakes and a back up goalie who was starting to panic. Its happened to them before loosing leads and I'm sure it was creeping up in the back of their mind.

The first 40 minutes was the best hockey I've seen from this team.

[PennsylvaniaCanesFan]

I didn't like Mo coming back, but I am still not ready for him to go. Besides, has a team ever fired the coach twice in one season?

[Jay]

Credit to Jay for the MMGA line.

Shamelessly stolen from the dudes in 328.

[BrooklynCaniac]

I agree I did not want Mo as the coach but there are alot of fingers to point other than coaching. Brindy -21 at what point do you decide if he's doing more harm than good. Staal is not exactly having a great season and he's a +11.

[nccanes]

It's an interesting proposition.

For those that are MMGA proponents, would you want JR to go get a completely new face (Torts for example) or would you want Rowe or Francis to step in?

I think I'd already accepted this season was going to be another mediocre year. It could have been mediocre under Laviolette, it could be mediocre under Mo. Mediocrity comes in many forms I guess.

Might be a hard sell at this point with 4 points in 4 games vs. the 2 points in the last 5 of Laviolette's.

[puck_it]

I agree I did not want Mo as the coach but there are alot of fingers to point other than coaching. Brindy -21 at what point do you decide if he's doing more harm than good. Staal is not exactly having a great season and he's a +11.

somewhere around -10.... on the bright side, despite playing 27 minutes, he was only a -1 last night.

I wouldnt have been on board with canning Lavi if i knew this was going to happen.

Looks like Francis is panning out, real active on the bench, talking to guys about plays and the like.

[nccanes]

I wouldnt have been on board with canning Lavi if i knew this was going to happen.


If "this" is Mo's rehire, then that's the whole crux isn't it. Mo can squeek into the playoffs and it'll be mixed feelings because of what that might mean moving forward. The alternative is missing the playoffs and waiting to see what JR will do.

If the whole deal is just to give Ronnie a "tryout" behind the bench for some defined period of time (balance of this season? this + next year?) then it would be a lot easier to just know. But I guess we'll know when we know.

[puck_it]

"this" is both hiring mo and the awful, idiotic ice time situation from last night.

[nccanes]

I don't know what's going on with Brindy's ice time, but the I'm just guessing that the Dmen that were paired with our "NHLers" got many more minutes because...they were paired with the "NHLers". Borer/Conboy played a lot less than Carson in the Caps game too.

Not saying that's a good thing, just that the pairings may have dictated that to some extent.

[caneshockeychick]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that as long as this club continues working like the "good ol' boy network" we'll always be mired in mediocrity.

While I hated (and still do!) the hiring of Mo, I do believe that a lot of this crap we see with the team lies with one man...Jim Rutherford. Oh yes, he was GM of the year. He put together from bits and pieces a SC team that was great. Emphasis on was please.

Our goaltending sucks. There, I said it. Cam was pushed into that #1 role a bit too soon IMO and now we have an AHL'er as a backup. for the 2 years before that, we had a headcase. We have hardly ever had a solid, #1 Netminder on this team. I mean a guy that you know can win you some games.

I'm not saying Cam never will be that guy but he isn't...right now. Nor will leighton ever be. I can't stand watching him in net. Seriously, i can't.

Irbe used to piss me off with his wandering. leighton, those juicy ass rebounds he leaves. UGH!!!

Until we get a goaltender who can keep us in a game (and a decent backup who can attempt it), or Cam finally grows into the mantle that has been placed upon him, we can never, ever hope to depend on a goalie.

Last nights game was proof that Leighton is not a great backup. he's a bargain basement career AHL'er. But hey, that's just my opinion. And I'm just really sick of this team right now.

[Convert]

It would be nice to see more passion from our goalies as well. Both Leighton and Cam are "cool as cucumbers" and don't act like stuff is bothering them.

I want a guy like Tim Thomas---another former career AHLer and backup that has become a top tier goaltender---who plays with passion.

In shootouts, if a guy scores on him, he turns and gets the puck out of the net as fast as he can. In games, he gets pumped up and pumps up the team.

This "I just let in 4 goals in a period and got owned in a shootout and you can't tell by looking at me" gets old.

But on the topic at hand. This organizations has fallen into a dangerous trap that happens to many organizations with periodic, but inconsistent success. They over-value the people that got them the success. Giving them more changes than they deserve, believing they are the same as they were during the successful year, etc.

Maurice-Got us to a final once, so bring him back to replace the guy that won us the cop but had lost the team.

Brindy - One of the top two way players in franchise history, so lets ignore his +/-, his inconsistency on the big face-offs, and the fact that he has clearly lost a step and play him more than anyone else.

Kaberle/Wallin - Sign them to deals that were at least 1 or 2 years to long for their talent and injury history.

The lilliputians - Get a few small quick guys who make a big difference in the cup year, so sign a whole team full of them.

Puck Moving defensemen - Get one (Corvo) who helps turn around the season last year, so go get more, and never get any stay at home nasty types to complement Gleason.

Injuury-Prone Value Deals - Get some guys cheap because of their injury history and get huge value when they stay healthy for one year (cup win)---so sign a whole team full of guys who consistently miss lots of games and complain about injury problems.

I could go on....

[Shell]

I'll admit to groaning loudly at Ray's interview before the game when he said Mo told them to quit running around and to wait for the play to come to them - ugh!

[WillLikeWhoa091]

Leighton may have looked indifferent on tv, but I can promise you the stick he slammed into the locker room wall that is now in splinters thinks differently.

If anything, I agree about the blind loyalty.

[c-girl]

Leighton may have looked indifferent on tv, but I can promise you the stick he slammed into the locker room wall that is now in splinters thinks differently.




That ^ actually makes me feel a bit better. I can take a poor performance as long as it's not accompanied by indifference.

[puck_it]

Brindy - One of the top two way players in franchise history, so lets ignore his +/-, his inconsistency on the big face-offs, and the fact that he has clearly lost a step and play him more than anyone else.

You can not ignore the LEAGUE WORST plus minus rating. You cant. He is a two time Selke winner, having a bad season is one thing, but League worst is simply unacceptable. And not only is he the league worst, but he's holding it by a hefty margin, and isnt even improving his rating.

Let alone, that rating ignores the PPGs scored when he was out there.

[caveman]

Meh. When we scored 5 goals, a couple even on the power play, I was dancing around. We've had 4 games now where the effort has been much better, IMHO.

[BrooklynCaniac]

Brindy has really lost a step out their. He was never a great skater and relied on great positioning and just an amazing view of the ice. I'd hate to see one of the best two way players in the game and best conditioned athletes in sports loose their carer to injury. It looks like thats whats going on.

[caveman]

This organizations has fallen into a dangerous trap that happens to many organizations with periodic, but inconsistent success. They over-value the people that got them the success. Giving them more chances than they deserve, believing they are the same as they were during the successful year, etc.

Brilliant analysis here, people. Some of it is the issue of a still establishing fanbase -- if after 2006 we had let ALL the FA's and RFA's walk there would have been uproar. So we re-signed a boatload of them and many underachieved vis-a-vis their contracts.

Still a lot of time left in this season, folks. And last I checked 1-1-2 is better than 1-4-0, which was the 5 game stretch just before Mo was re-hired. Jeesh, 4 points in 4 games as the team tweaks the system a bit, and people are calling for heads. No, that's not at ALL the sentiment that cost Laviolette HIS job, no no no... not at ALL. We score more than 4 goals for the first time since Nov 21st (8 games)? If Carson doesn't commit two penalties and Gagne doesn't get away with checking and stripping Leighton of his stick behind the net, we win 5-2.

I tell you what, I'm not losing sleep over this one. Give me this over losing 4-1 any day. Any day. And I'd say something about "At least we haven't been shut out this season" but I know that would curse us. Oh wait...

[caneshockeychick]

Leighton may have looked indifferent on tv, but I can promise you the stick he slammed into the locker room wall that is now in splinters thinks differently.

Well of course he was probably pissed. He blew it!! Big Time!! :mad:

Sorry, I lay this crapper on him. Games like this make me realize why he floated around a bit on other teams always landing in the AHL. He's an AHL goalie...not an NHL goalie.

[nccanes]

chc, I was wondering what he was slamming his stick about too! Did he realize that Cam is ready to go back between the pipes? :beatup:

It was a crappy, crappy way to lose a game. A LOT of guys haven't been in that situation in a long time and some had never been in that situation and a couple had just 1 game under their belts (between the 2 of them).

I'm more concerned about any damage done to their grey matter than the game outcome itself. Hopefully they'll play a complete game in MSG and get rewarded for it.

[caveman]

I'm more concerned about any damage done to their grey matter than the game outcome itself. Hopefully they'll play a complete game in MSG and get rewarded for it.

QFT.

[caneshockeychick]

Haven't you read what the newspapers are saying? They already are damaged and have been since the beginning of the year.

You can't sit back in the 3rd period on any type of lead and let the other team pound on your goalie (especially our goalies). And seeing that done last night?

IMO, 5 goals should have been enough to win a game. But not when you give up the 3rd period and let the other team get "confidence" and get back in the game.

This team will never have confidence if they continue playing like that. Never. Doesn't matter who the coach is, who the goalies are, who the Dmen are, who the Omen are.

[x]

I'm perplexed as to why people remember only the bad of the Mo years, but only the good of the Peter years. Mo coached far less talented teams to the playoffs 3 of 8 seasons, while Peter took 1 team in 3 seasons (I'm calling '03-04 a wash). I don't see a huge difference there, and missing the playoffs costs us millions of dollars directly, and millions more indirectly by the damage done to the fanbase, especially after winning the Cup. It was time for Peter to go. The team was not competing for him. We have lost countless leads under him the past 2 & 1/3 seasons. The "foot-on-the-gas" style some are pining for has been gone since '06. Since the coaching change, I've seen greater intensity for a much greater percentage of the time than we were seeing recently under Peter. 4 AHL D & a backup goalie in a rowdy building spells disaster. I am puzzled as to the ice time situation last night, but that's hardly enough to cost the guy his job. Again, Mo wasn't my choice either, but I'm pulling for him to be successful. I don't think the organization can afford otherwise.

[caneshockeychick]

4 AHL D & a backup goalie in a rowdy building spells disaster.

Funny how this didn't seem to be a problem in periods 1 and 2.

[puck_it]

Brindy has really lost a step out their. He was never a great skater and relied on great positioning and just an amazing view of the ice. I'd hate to see one of the best two way players in the game and best conditioned athletes in sports loose their carer to injury. It looks like thats whats going on.

I think you're a bit premature, there. Take Doug Weight as a prime example. He was flat out horrendous last season for both the Blues and the Ducks. Except when he played Edmonton, think half his points last season were against them. Eitherway, he's the oldest guy to lead his team in points, the point leader for guys over 33... He's got 27 points only 29 games in. He's 4 away from 1,000 in his career. I didnt think he'd make 1,000 after last season. Now he's probably going to do it before January.

I'm doubtful that Brindy's career is over, however his ice time needs to reflect his piss poor play. It happened to Weight, and it sucked to be him at that point, but when a top two line veteran isnt up to snuff... Treat him the same as you would a 3rd liner. Cut his time.

This season just isnt Brind'Amour's right now. Until he figures out what's going on, I want Staal and Cully as my top two centerman. I want Eaves, Sutter, LaRose, Staal And Cully killing my penalties. That simple.

[x]

Funny how this didn't seem to be a problem in periods 1 and 2.

So what's your point? That last night's collapse was Mo's fault, but all the leads we gave away under Peter w/ a starting goalie & more experienced D had nothing to do w/ coaching?

[nccanes]

Funny how this didn't seem to be a problem in periods 1 and 2.

I don't mean to speak for x and don't want to be labeled a Mo apologist, but it certainly seems that Leighton and a lot of the team kinda panicked. I imagine it's hard to keep your composure when it's the 3rd period, you're playing your first (or 2nd) ever NHL game in Philly and you're tired. I also wonder how our NHLers Pitkanen and Corvo were handling the pressure and fatigue having to wear the "shutdown" hat. Neither one of them are what I'd consider "clutch" in style or mindset. It's quite possible that all 6 of those Dmen were getting foisted into a role that they just had little or no experience in.

I don't fault Mo (or whoever it was tapping them on the shoulder) for trying to put out our experienced guys (and the partner they had) out there. Maybe it woulda worked with Conboy/Borer out more, maybe not. Maybe the 4th line shoulda had more time. Hard to say.

But the Flyers got a fragile lineup on the ropes and they folded. Which they didn't do against the Caps.

[caneshockeychick]

So when does the hiring of Mo give them confidence, make them less fragile. I mean, they were up by 4 goals at one point for goodness sake!!! How do you not try to continue building on that? How does something like that not build confidence.

Here's the thing...the Flyers were down 4 goals and came back to tie it up and then win in the shootout.

Guess what? THEY DIDN'T GIVE UP THE GAME!!!!!

[nccanes]

The Flyers also haven't lost in regulation in something like 14 games. I think it's hard to compare the two teams at this point.

I said somewhere that this is a small sample size. Just like I felt in mid-late October about this team. At somewhere near 20 games, it was a pattern. I think we need to get a little further down the line and see what happens.

[caneshockeychick]

I still don't buy it.

We had them by 4 goals. 4 goals.

We should have won that game. If they'd kept that "confidence" going into the 3rd that game is ours.

[nccanes]

Not disagreeing.

Just acknowledging that this team is a work in progress.

[Convert]

As a note, while we have limited experience with "Mo-The Sequel", we were a Leighton meltdown away from having this happen in the Caps game. We were up 1-0 and most of the first half of the third was played in our defensive end. They only got one goal and we responded.

I really hope this is not a new trend under mo, where, instead of sucking the first period, or the second, we suck in the third.

[caneshockeychick]

well, we now have 7 days until the roster freeze and likely no changes to player personnel will be made but when that freeze is lifted, I hate to say it, but someone or someones got to go. I don't know who, and I don't care who at this point (although some losses would make me sadder than others). But to keep this team as is, is to accept mediocrity (of course, we are worse than mediocre but I'm trying to be nice :D) and I'm just not sure if I can continue to accept that.

[VandyCane]

Given all our injuries I don't think a trade would help this team at this point. Now, if our lineup is healthier and we still underperform then we can talk trade.

[caneshockeychick]

^oh I don't think anyone will want any of our defensemen at this point. :lol:

[SoCalcaniac]

I'm perplexed as to why people remember only the bad of the Mo years, but only the good of the Peter years.


Who forgets this?

http://myhero.com/images/guest/g9802/hero10399/g9802_u7192_Stanley_Cup.jpg

There is nothing else to even say so that'll do. Until The New Old Coach can prove he can do that? PL gets the pass, period, end of discussion. Is it fair? Hell no. Used to be, that thing made you Golden. So if you're a diehard like all of us around here, or some dude who caught on to the game in 05-06 & his neighbor gave him tickets to Game 7 - until someone outdoes PL and the acheivement of 05-06, the "pass" and rose colored glasses over the 2 years following 05-06 will continue to be worn. But as we say in hockey parlance, it is what it is. People in the Mo Part One years accepted what was there because it was all we had. Well, now that shipped went right on by and most people aren't willing to accept---crap. I hated the change, as most know and can tell, and I'm bitter and proud of it, lol. Until we get out of this unseemly welcome back to the family again thing, we will be mediocre forever. That our GM didn't even think to go outside of the org, "La Familia" or whatever you wanna call it, makes me ILL. He did it once, and look what happened. whatever falling out he had with Laviolette, (true or not, whatever, clearly he wasn't BFF's with Peter) at least he should have gone outside the org. Or at least pretend to, to shut people up. He didn't and that's on him.

So yeah, Mo Part Deux in fan land, is like the irritating step-child, he gets no pass on anything, and PL will always be viewed as The Guy; and until someone knocks the battery off his shoulder, that's how it'll be for me.

[caneshockeychick]

:yeah:




:thumbsup: SoCal....I'm on your boat!! :D

[lovereign]

me too I am on that ship too

[nccanes]

Perfectly valid opinion to have. But it also illustrates that the emotions associated with Mo probably have more to do with that, than his on-ice product thus far. I mean, if there is a admission that you think it was a flawed hire, no matter what, then there is little the man can do that will change your mind. Apparently getting 4 points in 4 games as compared to 2 points in the previous 5 is not progress.

And so it goes.

I knew this was not gonna be fun. :lol:

[caneshockeychick]

Anyone ever have a great post going and then you hit the wrong button :lol:

[KaniacFever]

Funny how this didn't seem to be a problem in periods 1 and 2.

Different circumstances. Philly really turned it on in that 3rd. I'm sure Stevens was telling them get an early goal and you can shake the confidence. We played a back up goalie who can't seem to forget when he lets in a bad goal and a Defense of AHLers who combine for less than 40 games, if that many and between two of them 1 freakin game.

Its exactly what happened. I will guarantee that if Timmy and Seidenberg were in the line up, we win this game at the worse 5-2. Carson took 2 penalties in the 3rd that got the Flyers right back into it. Can't fault Carson as he's expected to make mistakes, but if we iced a normal defense, this collapse doesn't happen. Point is the back up goalie and AHL defenders panicked. And it didn't help that our only 2 NHL defenseman are not known for being shut down. They are used to others cleaning up their defense lapses, not having to clean up others (Carson/Rodney)

[nccanes]

If you look at the post game interviews that CanesVision posted, they have some from the Flyers locker room and one of them said that Stevens specifically talked about our inexperienced AHL D and to start getting the puck deep and pressure them etc.

[caneshockeychick]

I don't think having Gleason and/or Seids on the ice would have mattered that much really. Especially if they were sitting back to "protect" that lead. which is totally a Mo and JR trait BTW, sit back and protect the lead.

Look, this team can suck it up one way and down the other, and sideways, depending on who's in net, or not. Depending on which Defensemen is hurt or not, hell, depending on which coach is behind the bench or not. If you aren't confident after getting up 4 goals on your opponent, you never will be.

[caneshockeychick]

If you look at the post game interviews that CanesVision posted, they have some from the Flyers locker room and one of them said that Stevens specifically talked about our inexperienced AHL D and to start getting the puck deep and pressure them etc.

And he called his team some bad names too...kinda like wussies ;)

[nccanes]

I don't think having Gleason and/or Seids on the ice would have mattered that much really.

chc, I'll buy you a beer if you tell Timmy that to his face. :lol: :kiss:

[caneshockeychick]

Hey, last year, he told me that I wasn't the reason we were losing all the games I was going but it was him. Then, he went out at the next game I was at, got in a fight and never came back. Guess what? We won that game ;)

[KaniacFever]

I don't think having Gleason and/or Seids on the ice would have mattered that much really. Especially if they were sitting back to "protect" that lead. which is totally a Mo and JR trait BTW, sit back and protect the lead.

Look, this team can suck it up one way and down the other, and sideways, depending on who's in net, or not. Depending on which Defensemen is hurt or not, hell, depending on which coach is behind the bench or not. If you aren't confident after getting up 4 goals on your opponent, you never will be.

I look at as Carson committed 2 rookie mistakes that put his ass in the box. Flyers scored on the ensuing PP. Brings them to 5-3 and all the momentum on their side. If Timmy or Seidenberg played, his ass wouldn't have. Those two likely would not have committed those mistakes as they wouldn't have been in panic mode.

I know you don't want to see it, but having those 2 guys out who are experienced in shutting down, does make a huge difference.

I'm not saying Mo is a great coach and he isn't at fault, cause let's face it, he kept putting Carson/Rodney out there. But to think that having Timmy and Seidenberg on the ice wouldn't have made a difference is blasphemy.

[crumudgeonly_caniac]

As bad as Leighton was, and he was pretty bad. The play by the Dman on one of the Hartnell goals, where Hartnell shot it over the net and it rebounded past the Dman to the front of the net was worse. It was a true game changer.(Look the bounces are going against us type game changer)

[caneshockeychick]

Hell, I love Gleason and Seids as much as some of the rest of ya'll on here but with that being said...I can't imagine that they are going to "save" this team. Nor do I think Cam Ward will either. I mean, we've suffered losses with all three of them being on the team at the same time(granted that was under our previous coach).

Besides, if they come out and play like they are scared of getting hurt then they are going to play like every other player on this team that has come back from being hurt...scared to get hurt again.

[evan]

Hell, I love Gleason and Seids as much as some of the rest of ya'll on here but with that being said...I can't imagine that they are going to "save" this team. Nor do I think Cam Ward will either.

CHC: Cam has never given up a 4 goal lead in the 3rd period. Our goaltending hasn't been stellar most nights, but they've not had any goal support either. Last night we finally gave our goaltender and defense something they could win with and an AHL defense with an AHL goaltender wasn't able to hold off a hungry NHL offense with their home crowd buzzing. I don't think we should have expected it. We had a healthy offense and we produced offense - we had a backup goalie and 5 out of 6 regular defensemen out (no NHL defensive d-men in the lineup or anybody even close) and the last game against Philly went pretty much according to that.

Thread topic: I for one, am glad to see that Maurice finally has Samsonov, Staal, Ruutu playing like a line and I think the last couple of games are already a huge improvement over losing games in regulation and struggling to score our first goal each game. It makes me wonder how many people would be blaming injuries alone for our struggles if Lavi was still here and now that Mo and Ronnie are behind the bench it's all on them if we win or lose. I just think you can see a lot more fight in this team now in the way they are starting to stand up for each other, the scraps at the sound of a whistle from our team are a lot more spirited, and just the overall play on the ice has been more exciting to watch and it's only been a handful of games with Maurice behind the bench. You may not like his style, but Maurice appears to be a much more confident coach than what we had a couple of weeks ago. Laviolette looked defeated and out of answers. It's been nice to see Maurice and Francis in the ears of the players on the bench throughout the game.

As for the ice-time argument many of you have brought up: you have a valid point there and I'm going to concede that. But Laviolette's distribution of ice time wasn't everything many of us wanted either. Many games you'd see him run Staal into the ground, give Brindy his minutes regardless of performance, and not reward some of the other guys like Sutter and Cullen. Maybe Maurice had talked with Brind'amour about giving him his ice time and giving him a chance to get his game back on track - I don't know. But I'll agree Staal and Sutter should see more time and Brindamour should move down a line IMO.

[caneshockeychick]

CHC: Cam has never given up a 4 goal lead in the 3rd period. Our goaltending hasn't been stellar most nights, but they've not had any goal support either. Last night we finally gave our goaltender and defense something they could win with and an AHL defense with an AHL goaltender wasn't able to hold off a hungry NHL offense with their home crowd buzzing. I don't think we should have expected it. We had a healthy offense and we produced offense - we had a backup goalie and 5 out of 6 regular defensemen out (no NHL defensive d-men in the lineup or anybody even close) and the last game against Philly went pretty much according to that.

So which goal does Cam save to win the game last night? Or which Dman comes on the ice to prevent a goal from being scored.

Everyone could sit here and offer woulda coulda shoulda's all night long. Fact remains, that team on the ice played for 40 minutes and kept a 4 goal lead only to give it up in the last 20 minutes. You can't change that team on the ice now and say, "well they woulda won if". They gave it up in the end. Who does that fall on?

But hey, thanks for agreeing with me on the "AHL Goaltender" thing ;)

[SoCalcaniac]

I just think you can see a lot more fight in this team now in the way they are starting to stand up for each other, the scraps at the sound of a whistle from our team are a lot more spirited, and just the overall play on the ice has been more exciting to watch and it's only been a handful of games with Maurice behind the bench.


Seriously? Did you even watch any of the game last night? We blew chunks, fell apart at the seams- choked to all hell. If that's fight, lord help them. SOMEBODY help them. and if it really is all the fight they have, no freakin' thanks. oh, and if that kind of hockey is "exciting" - good on you. personally, I'd much rather have bamboo shoots placed under my fingernails, while drinking a hot sauce cocktail. Since when did Mo invent exciting hockey? Gimme a break. and the whole scraps between the whistles is completely overrated. Win the damn game.

Whispering sweet nothings into the players ears isn't impressive to me- Rowe has done it all year, PL did it all the time. Because the New Old Coach is doing it and the Former Asst GM Hall Of Fame ex-Player is doing it, doesn't mean they're saving lives. Good grief, he's the coach- he damn well better be talking to his players. It's a little much to make him out to be some Boy Genuis because he's talking to players.

This one falls at the hands of the New Old Coach and the goalie who crapped and freaked out. The New Old Coach is going to have to do a hell of alot to impress- especially after I was nearly settling into "accepting" what has happened and moving forward. Not a chance in hell now. Not fair? Oh, well. That's what fans get to do.

[nickgregory]

i was in edmonton for work, so only got to see the 3rd period in the hotel bar when I got in after work (something great to be said when even a hotel bar has center ice), and it was an awful display...but this game reminded me of a game earlier this year when the Canes had the Caps under control leading 2-1 to give up 2 goals and lose in the final 3 minutes...the flyers game just took longer to roll downhill :)

was talking to an oilers fan in the bar and he was watching the game with me...and his comment...well at least the oil aren't alone when it comes to mediocre hockey...and his comment on Cole was something along the line of he really seems to only be going all out half the time...the other half he is just not trying to be a factor...

[SouthernHockeyChick]

^ I get what you're saying but I really, really really, can not see comparing a game where we gave up a 2-1 lead to a game where we gave up a 5-1 lead.

And if Cole is going all out half the time in Edmonton tell that guy to thank his lucky stars! :lol:;)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that as long as this club continues working like the "good ol' boy network" we'll always be mired in mediocrity.


It's not much of a limb when so many of us agree. ;)

That ^ actually makes me feel a bit better. I can take a poor performance as long as it's not accompanied by indifference.

Let's just get one thing out of the way right now: You do not climb to this level of hockey if you are indifferent about anything related to your game. These guys have talent out the wazoo but just ask any athlete, if you don't have a painfully burning desire to win, you won't make it to this level. These guys may look indifferent at times but I assure you, they want to win way worse than any fan sitting in that building on any given night.


I'm perplexed as to why people remember only the bad of the Mo years, but only the good of the Peter years. Mo coached far less talented teams to the playoffs 3 of 8 seasons, while Peter took 1 team in 3 seasons (I'm calling '03-04 a wash). ........

It was time for Peter to go. .............

Since the coaching change, I've seen greater intensity for a much greater percentage of the time than we were seeing recently under Peter.

OK, let's get another thing out of the way right now: Peter Laviolette was fired. It's over. He's gone. So let's stop the comparisons.

Very, very few people who are not happy with Mo feel that way because of anything to do with Laviolette. The MMGA attitude is ALL about Mo, and none about some desire to have Lavi back. Most people can agree that something had to be done and firing the coach made sense. It's the hiring Mo part that was psychotic.


I really hope this is not a new trend under mo, where, instead of sucking the first period, or the second, we suck in the third.

Your wish is granted.....this isn't a new trend under Mo at all. We've seen it before with him. Foot of the gas in the third is modus operandi.

I mean, if there is a admission that you think it was a flawed hire, no matter what, then there is little the man can do that will change your mind.

After the first and second period I was ready to start conceding that this incarnation of Mo wasn't the SOM (Same Old Mo). Then he went and proved me wrong in the third when the team displayed "patience" and "waited" and went into prevent-defense (ha) mode.

He's been using those buzz words and making me nervous for about a week now. I mean he actually said last weekend that Staal was a good enough player to wait and be the game-changer in the last 5 minutes. WTF is that??? Follow those comments up with a performance that was right out of 02-03 and I'm right back where I started.....knowing in my heart that Mo is the wrong man for the job.



But......you can't fire him. Not now. Re-hiring him was enough to make us look like a joke, IMO. We fire him anytime soon and we're.....well, we're bordering on Tampa-like!! :lol:

[nickgregory]

^ I get what you're saying but I really, really really, can not see comparing a game where we gave up a 2-1 lead to a game where we gave up a 5-1 lead.

And if Cole is going all out half the time in Edmonton tell that guy to thank his lucky stars! :lol:;)




I understand...and dont necessarily disagree...my point is this team has collapsed like a cheap card table before last night, and at times under laviolette...the caps example was just one that I recall off the top of my head...

true about cole...I told him we were lucky at times to be getting 1/3rd of the effort....

[nccanes]

He's been using those buzz words and making me nervous for about a week now. I mean he actually said last weekend that Staal was a good enough player to wait and be the game-changer in the last 5 minutes. WTF is that??? Follow those comments up with a performance that was right out of 02-03 and I'm right back where I started.....knowing in my heart that Mo is the wrong man for the job.


I took those comments to mean that he didn't have to "cheat" (actually I think those were his exact words) to get the offense, that if he was good enough player that he could play both ends of the ice and STILL end up being the game changer, even if it was the final minutes.

Mo had (I can't judge him on a 4 game sample, and I'd throw the 1st game out just because everyone was still shell shocked and he was still introducing himself) his faults. He may STILL have faults, or blindspots, or whatever. But I sure think that Staal is playing better lately. Staal has been dogged by many all season and I think we've all seen him coasting and chalked it up to injury or whatever, but he's played like a more confident guy in the new Mo-dom.

Perhaps it's dumb luck, but I find it hard to fault Mo for something that appears to be making a difference in his game. Staal was +2 last night.

I totally get dumping "old" habits or observations onto Mo - that's the risk JR took when he chose him. BUt it's kinda unfair to dump a criticism on him when he actually seems to have made a difference in Staal's case.

People wanted Staal benched or his ice time cut. Mo told him needed to play both ends of the ice and the offense would come. So far I think he's right.

My 2 cents.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

My problem with that statement has nothing to do with it's application to Staal and everything to do with it being another indication of a greater philosophy of Mo's.

I think it's every bit as likely that Staal's game last night would have been the same no matter who was on the bench as it is that Mo is responsible. IMO, we've been seeing a pattern for improvement from him for a while now, even pre-coaching change. And +2 isn't all that notable since he's been a plus player all year.....even when he and no one else on that line was scoring. Defensively he's been responsible more often than not all season, IMO.

[nccanes]

In other words, the players will get credit for good things, Mo will get blame for bad? I mean, that's how this thread reads. I guess I'm missing something, but that's what I'm getting out it.

Let me clarify. Staal was +2 in a game where 5 goals were scored against us and he took 9 shifts in the 3rd where they scored 4. Perhaps that's nothing. I think Mo's comments (and I could be way off base) were that Staal needs to be involved at both ends of the ice and it will only help his game....and his team.

Since Laviolette barely said anything to the media and said even less this year, we really have no clue what he was saying to Staal or how he was being coached. Hell, maybe it's Ron Francis, who the hell knows. But surely guessing that Mo/Francis has helped is equally likely as saying he was going to bust out on his own. The problem is, getting 2 points in the last 5 (as a team, not Staal - though it appears he had the same stat, 2 points in Lavi's last 5 games) precluded PL and us from knowing what would happen.

Mo certainly speaks to the media (and by extension the fans) more than PL did. I guess that's gonna open him up to being parsed into lots of things. But I just don't see anything there on the Staal front. Unless Mo is a moron, I'm just going to guess that he doesn't expect Eric to only score in the last 5 minutes.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

But surely guessing that Mo/Francis has helped is equally likely as saying he was going to bust out on his own.

That's exactly what I said. "It's every bit as likely."

But I just don't see anything there on the Staal front. And I also said that comment doesn't bug me in it's application to Staal specifically but more as it reflects a greater philosophy, IMO.

This is the exact quote, BTW.

“I thought he played a very complete game,” Maurice said of Staal, who notched the 18th game-winning goal of his career and his 299th point. “I’m glad he got rewarded in a game where he played both ends of the rink so well. That just kind of reinforces in his mind that it’s not about him cheating to score, he’s a good enough player where he can wait, and maybe the last three or four minutes of the game he’s a game breaker. He’s that good.”It's the wait part that bugs me. That plus all the patience comments, etc that are all indicative of his passive style, IMO.

If you must talk about that comment in it's specific application to Staal I'll say again that I think, more often than not, he has played responsible defense all year. It's not like that was an issue that needed fixing in terms of Staal, IMO.

Again, all IMO and I really have no desire to convince anyone else. I just believe I have the right to believe what I believe, be it completely fair or reasonable in everyone's opinion or not. And, I personally think I have good reasons for it. :lol:

And can I point out again that the comparison to Lavi is not necessary. I am not intending to argue Lavi would be doing better. My belief is that Paul Maurice is not good for this team in the long-run, if even in the short-run. I have doubts about Francis but, since he's never coached, I certainly don't have the evidence I feel I have on Mo.

[nickgregory]

I actually take maurice's comments as "dont grip the stick too hard, keep the effort on both ends up, and he can deliver in crucial moments"

[caneshockeychick]

I have doubts about Francis but, since he's never coached, I certainly don't have the evidence I feel I have on Mo.

And it scares me to think about what Francis is getting from Mo as far as coaching. I mean, is Francis "learning" how to coach from Mo ? Cuz if he is, I'm not sure I'd want him as a coach either. :laugh:

[x]

^ OK, let's get another thing out of the way right now: Peter Laviolette was fired. It's over. He's gone. So let's stop the comparisons.

Very, very few people who are not happy with Mo feel that way because of anything to do with Laviolette. The MMGA attitude is ALL about Mo, and none about some desire to have Lavi back. Most people can agree that something had to be done and firing the coach made sense. It's the hiring Mo part that was psychotic.


Some on this board were arguing that Peter should still be our coach, and those are the fans I was responding to. Again, I was as perplexed as you were when Mo was hired, but because I don't think our organization can afford for him to fail, I'm willing to give him a chance, & I'm pulling for him (because I'm pulling for the team) to succeed.

[andyt]

And it scares me to think about what Francis is getting from Mo as far as coaching. I mean, is Francis "learning" how to coach from Mo ? Cuz if he is, I'm not sure I'd want him as a coach either. :laugh:

I don't think so. He played for a lot of coaches in his career. Just because he's standing next to Mo doesn't mean he's going to be the most influential. When he got to Pittsburgh, Badger Bob Johnson was the coach. He played the next 2 seasons for Scotty Bowman. He'll take the best of what everyone did, whether it's motivation, organization, running the PP, etc.

[puck_it]

what exactly has Larose done that has been scratch worthy? he's done nothing but play his ass off when nobody else gave a damn... (and larose is our 6th leading goal scorer)

MMGA!

[caneshockeychick]

Ya know....I'm trying really hard to be quiet here :fire::ticked:

[puck_it]

****ing being quiet. I dont think any of the fire lavi crowd would have been in that crowd had we known this was the fricken next option...

[caneshockeychick]

well, you can't bench eaves I guess (WHO HASN'T SCORED A GOAL BTW) because we pay him too much money

If this continues....I just don't know, I just don't know :mad:

[nccanes]

what exactly has Larose done that has been scratch worthy? he's done nothing but play his ass off when nobody else gave a damn... (and larose is our 6th leading goal scorer)


I don't think it had anything to do with anything other than trying to get Seidenberg and Gleason back and having a safety net of a 7th D.

But I could be wrong.

[puck_it]

safety net of Rodney/Conboy?? **** we played the last game with only 4 defenseman. I just dont see what that saftey net provides, other than allowing a 4 goal comeback.

[KaniacFever]

safety net of Rodney/Conboy?? **** we played the last game with only 4 defenseman. I just dont see what that saftey net provides, other than allowing a 4 goal comeback.

Safety net as in if Seidenberg or Gleason couldn't finish the game. Then you are down to 5 defenseman. And playing last game with 4 defenseman lend to the biggest collapse ever.

[caneshockeychick]

Well, they went on the road with Mo. What did they learn?

1. They can't keep a 4 goal lead with 4 AHL Defensemen and Leighton in net
2. They can't win against the Rangers in the shootout when Lundqvist is in net.
3. They still can't score a PP goal with either 2 or 4 minutes (see number 6 for more information)
4. The other team can still get a shortie
5. Chad LaRose gets to sit games out until Gleason and Seids are fully healthy.
6. They still can't score a 5 on 3.


And now they come back home

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Those 33 minute defensemen last night had 31 minutes tonight. Rodney and Conboy had 5 minutes each, Carson 10, Gleason 18, Sieds 24. If we were playing 2 of those 7 guys only 5 minutes each we might as well have dressed Chad.

[nccanes]

I guess the idea of a safety net is if Gleason goes out after his 1st shift, you've got another 18 minutes to dole out. If Will reported that Seidenberg didn't practice yesterday, I guess there's a slim chance that could lose 2 guys. If Seids goes out, that's 27 minutes to go around.

Unless we know what Freisen had to say, tough call to make from my SNLR.

[Alicia]

I'm sure you'd rather not potentially go down any d-men against NYR.

[SoCalcaniac]

Those 33 minute defensemen last night had 31 minutes tonight. Rodney and Conboy had 5 minutes each, Carson 10, Gleason 18, Sieds 24. If we were playing 2 of those 7 guys only 5 minutes each we might as well have dressed Chad.

Excellent bench management strategy SHC. Would you like a new job? :lol:

I get precaution and with our D and their issues, I got it. Ease them in. Well Seids played 24 friggin minutes. Gleason 18 - not what he normally would play, but they both played. I know this discussion is just going round and round, but seriously? two guys playing 5 minutes sounds like over cautious coaching. Throw em out there if you're concerned about the returning from injury d-men.

[caneshockeychick]

I think I'm just gonna start watching hockey movies. Much more entertaining and usually, the good team wins :D

I'm starting with Miracle. :usa: