The War Thread

[CaniacPanther]

Okay, with the war going on and all, we should have a regular thread to discuss it, IMHO.

I'm not a mod, but I AM going to lay out a few rules that I strongly suggest you follow unless you want to feel the wrath of Shell, Guyute, and company.

1. Don't bash our troops. It wasn't their decision to be deployed to Iraq, and they're working as hard as they can to protect us and carry out the orders.

2. Keep all debate peaceful and meaningful. No personal attacks on another member.

3. No stupid comments. I think you all know what these are.

4. Post news as well as debate here as well.

Okie doke...discuss away. :spin:

[CaniacPanther]

Okay, with the war going on and all, we should have a regular thread to discuss it, IMHO.

I'm not a mod, but I AM going to lay out a few rules that I strongly suggest you follow unless you want to feel the wrath of Shell, Guyute, and company.

1. Don't bash our troops. It wasn't their decision to be deployed to Iraq, and they're working as hard as they can to protect us and carry out the orders.

2. Keep all debate peaceful and meaningful. No personal attacks on another member.

3. No stupid comments. I think you all know what these are.

4. Post news as well as debate here as well.

Okie doke...discuss away. :spin:

[CaniacPanther]

Okay, with the war going on and all, we should have a regular thread to discuss it, IMHO.

I'm not a mod, but I AM going to lay out a few rules that I strongly suggest you follow unless you want to feel the wrath of Shell, Guyute, and company.

1. Don't bash our troops. It wasn't their decision to be deployed to Iraq, and they're working as hard as they can to protect us and carry out the orders.

2. Keep all debate peaceful and meaningful. No personal attacks on another member.

3. No stupid comments. I think you all know what these are.

4. Post news as well as debate here as well.

Okie doke...discuss away. :spin:

[Grindline25]

No offense to you at all, but it gets pretty depressing seeing topics and articles about the war everywhere.

[Grindline25]

No offense to you at all, but it gets pretty depressing seeing topics and articles about the war everywhere.

[Grindline25]

No offense to you at all, but it gets pretty depressing seeing topics and articles about the war everywhere.

[Turbulence]

This could get dicey. :vamp:

I'll refrain from belching my liberal views upon the good folk of LGC again... :angel:

[Turbulence]

This could get dicey. :vamp:

I'll refrain from belching my liberal views upon the good folk of LGC again... :angel:

[Turbulence]

This could get dicey. :vamp:

I'll refrain from belching my liberal views upon the good folk of LGC again... :angel:

[MoBigRed]

No offense to you at all, but it gets pretty depressing seeing topics and articles about the war everywhere.


Agreed, but it's a topic that people are going to discuss, so we might as well have one place for it rather than having it creep into a dozen other threads.

[MoBigRed]

No offense to you at all, but it gets pretty depressing seeing topics and articles about the war everywhere.


Agreed, but it's a topic that people are going to discuss, so we might as well have one place for it rather than having it creep into a dozen other threads.

[MoBigRed]

No offense to you at all, but it gets pretty depressing seeing topics and articles about the war everywhere.


Agreed, but it's a topic that people are going to discuss, so we might as well have one place for it rather than having it creep into a dozen other threads.

[folgersnyourcup]

Very interesting standoff currently taking place. There appear to be U.S. marines one one side of the field, British tanks in the middle, and Iraqi snipers in windows along with supposedly an Iraqi tank as well. This has gone on now for a little more than an hour... At times there has been quite intense shooting as it appears the tank is trying to completely destroy the building the snipers are in. Watching this though I lost track of the time and now see it is 2:15..... time for bed. Just wanted to post some current news.

Thanks CaniacPanther for starting this thread!

[folgersnyourcup]

Very interesting standoff currently taking place. There appear to be U.S. marines one one side of the field, British tanks in the middle, and Iraqi snipers in windows along with supposedly an Iraqi tank as well. This has gone on now for a little more than an hour... At times there has been quite intense shooting as it appears the tank is trying to completely destroy the building the snipers are in. Watching this though I lost track of the time and now see it is 2:15..... time for bed. Just wanted to post some current news.

Thanks CaniacPanther for starting this thread!

[folgersnyourcup]

Very interesting standoff currently taking place. There appear to be U.S. marines one one side of the field, British tanks in the middle, and Iraqi snipers in windows along with supposedly an Iraqi tank as well. This has gone on now for a little more than an hour... At times there has been quite intense shooting as it appears the tank is trying to completely destroy the building the snipers are in. Watching this though I lost track of the time and now see it is 2:15..... time for bed. Just wanted to post some current news.

Thanks CaniacPanther for starting this thread!

[Shell]

I'm watching that too folgers, It blows my mind that I am so clearly on the front line right now. CNN is obviously surprised that the plug hasn't been pulled yet.I would have gone to bed hours ago but am fascinated. To hear the troops as they talk and plan is astounding.

uh-oh, word just in that we may have taken down a British royal forces plane./.

[Shell]

I'm watching that too folgers, It blows my mind that I am so clearly on the front line right now. CNN is obviously surprised that the plug hasn't been pulled yet.I would have gone to bed hours ago but am fascinated. To hear the troops as they talk and plan is astounding.

uh-oh, word just in that we may have taken down a British royal forces plane./.

[Shell]

I'm watching that too folgers, It blows my mind that I am so clearly on the front line right now. CNN is obviously surprised that the plug hasn't been pulled yet.I would have gone to bed hours ago but am fascinated. To hear the troops as they talk and plan is astounding.

uh-oh, word just in that we may have taken down a British royal forces plane./.

[Turbulence]

Looks like we shot down a Royal Air Force Tornado with a patriot missile... :mad:
And apparently some Iraqis have been showing off their newly-captured American POWs... http://www.wral.com/news/2058301/detail.html



:eek2:

[Turbulence]

Looks like we shot down a Royal Air Force Tornado with a patriot missile... :mad:
And apparently some Iraqis have been showing off their newly-captured American POWs... http://www.wral.com/news/2058301/detail.html



:eek2:

[Turbulence]

Looks like we shot down a Royal Air Force Tornado with a patriot missile... :mad:
And apparently some Iraqis have been showing off their newly-captured American POWs... http://www.wral.com/news/2058301/detail.html



:eek2:

[mikus]

how long will the war actually be? i know nobody knows it exactly....does anbody knows roughly how long?

[mikus]

how long will the war actually be? i know nobody knows it exactly....does anbody knows roughly how long?

[mikus]

how long will the war actually be? i know nobody knows it exactly....does anbody knows roughly how long?

[Stormbringer]

My dad has said that the length of the war really depends on many things...in short terms, just a couple of months. In long terms, six or more months. It's really hard to determine...

[Stormbringer]

My dad has said that the length of the war really depends on many things...in short terms, just a couple of months. In long terms, six or more months. It's really hard to determine...

[Stormbringer]

My dad has said that the length of the war really depends on many things...in short terms, just a couple of months. In long terms, six or more months. It's really hard to determine...

[Kat]

No offense to you at all, but it gets pretty depressing seeing topics and articles about the war everywhere.

No offense to you at all (and I somewhat agree), but the fact remains that we are at war. If you don't want to read about it here, then don't click on this link. Easy enough?

[Kat]

No offense to you at all, but it gets pretty depressing seeing topics and articles about the war everywhere.

No offense to you at all (and I somewhat agree), but the fact remains that we are at war. If you don't want to read about it here, then don't click on this link. Easy enough?

[Kat]

No offense to you at all, but it gets pretty depressing seeing topics and articles about the war everywhere.

No offense to you at all (and I somewhat agree), but the fact remains that we are at war. If you don't want to read about it here, then don't click on this link. Easy enough?

[mikus]

six or more months.
holy [swearword] :sad: :sad:

[mikus]

six or more months.
holy [swearword] :sad: :sad:

[mikus]

six or more months.
holy [swearword] :sad: :sad:

[Turbulence]

Rumor is that some of the POWs were executed (not killed) by Iraqi forces...found that on another internet board from someone in Europe watching European TV...so take it for what it's worth.

Also, supposedly another coalition plane has been lost and the pilot(s) ejected over the Tigris...Al Jazeera showing images of Iraqis shooting into the river.


Right now I don't know what to believe...rumors rumors rumors.

[Turbulence]

Rumor is that some of the POWs were executed (not killed) by Iraqi forces...found that on another internet board from someone in Europe watching European TV...so take it for what it's worth.

Also, supposedly another coalition plane has been lost and the pilot(s) ejected over the Tigris...Al Jazeera showing images of Iraqis shooting into the river.


Right now I don't know what to believe...rumors rumors rumors.

[Turbulence]

Rumor is that some of the POWs were executed (not killed) by Iraqi forces...found that on another internet board from someone in Europe watching European TV...so take it for what it's worth.

Also, supposedly another coalition plane has been lost and the pilot(s) ejected over the Tigris...Al Jazeera showing images of Iraqis shooting into the river.


Right now I don't know what to believe...rumors rumors rumors.

[mikus]

Right now I don't know what to believe...rumors rumors rumors.
that's the same thing in every war

[mikus]

Right now I don't know what to believe...rumors rumors rumors.
that's the same thing in every war

[mikus]

Right now I don't know what to believe...rumors rumors rumors.
that's the same thing in every war

[Stormbringer]

Right now I don't know what to believe...rumors rumors rumors.

As my dad has said numerous times already, the first casuality of war is the truth.

[Stormbringer]

Right now I don't know what to believe...rumors rumors rumors.

As my dad has said numerous times already, the first casuality of war is the truth.

[Stormbringer]

Right now I don't know what to believe...rumors rumors rumors.

As my dad has said numerous times already, the first casuality of war is the truth.

[Turbulence]

Who knew Saddam played the turntables?
http://www.afflictedyard.com/discus/messages/2218/2232.jpg

:crazy:

[Turbulence]

Who knew Saddam played the turntables?
http://www.afflictedyard.com/discus/messages/2218/2232.jpg

:crazy:

[Turbulence]

Who knew Saddam played the turntables?
http://www.afflictedyard.com/discus/messages/2218/2232.jpg

:crazy:

[mikus]

:D:D
dj saddam

[mikus]

:D:D
dj saddam

[mikus]

:D:D
dj saddam

[Stormbringer]

:eek2:

"The truth is out there."

Ok...so does that mean that picture was dug up by Mulder and Sculley? :crazy: If so...does that mean Saddam is an alien? This is something the Men In Black should look into... :crazy:

Kind of reminds me of an album called "Third Reich and Roll" by a "rock group" called the Residents, which sported a cover comparing Dick Clark to Hitler...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000000PM6/qid=1048439433/sr=1-9/ref=sr_1_9/002-1529418-2396840?v=glance&s=music

[Stormbringer]

:eek2:

"The truth is out there."

Ok...so does that mean that picture was dug up by Mulder and Sculley? :crazy: If so...does that mean Saddam is an alien? This is something the Men In Black should look into... :crazy:

Kind of reminds me of an album called "Third Reich and Roll" by a "rock group" called the Residents, which sported a cover comparing Dick Clark to Hitler...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000000PM6/qid=1048439433/sr=1-9/ref=sr_1_9/002-1529418-2396840?v=glance&s=music

[Stormbringer]

:eek2:

"The truth is out there."

Ok...so does that mean that picture was dug up by Mulder and Sculley? :crazy: If so...does that mean Saddam is an alien? This is something the Men In Black should look into... :crazy:

Kind of reminds me of an album called "Third Reich and Roll" by a "rock group" called the Residents, which sported a cover comparing Dick Clark to Hitler...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000000PM6/qid=1048439433/sr=1-9/ref=sr_1_9/002-1529418-2396840?v=glance&s=music

[folgersnyourcup]

As my dad has said numerous times already, the first casuality of war is the truth.

How very true. Early yesterday CNN reported we had captured the city of Basar, the 2nd largest city in Iraq, then later in the day it was reported we were not close to capturing it. Now rumors about executions of P.O.W.'s, Sadaam's health, etc....

It's twist-a-minute but the amount of live media coverage is unprecedented.

[folgersnyourcup]

As my dad has said numerous times already, the first casuality of war is the truth.

How very true. Early yesterday CNN reported we had captured the city of Basar, the 2nd largest city in Iraq, then later in the day it was reported we were not close to capturing it. Now rumors about executions of P.O.W.'s, Sadaam's health, etc....

It's twist-a-minute but the amount of live media coverage is unprecedented.

[folgersnyourcup]

As my dad has said numerous times already, the first casuality of war is the truth.

How very true. Early yesterday CNN reported we had captured the city of Basar, the 2nd largest city in Iraq, then later in the day it was reported we were not close to capturing it. Now rumors about executions of P.O.W.'s, Sadaam's health, etc....

It's twist-a-minute but the amount of live media coverage is unprecedented.

[mikus]

i think you can trust nothing of what they show in tv unless the army gives an official statement.

[mikus]

i think you can trust nothing of what they show in tv unless the army gives an official statement.

[mikus]

i think you can trust nothing of what they show in tv unless the army gives an official statement.

[Shell]

well, TV is much different in this war. They have reporters on the front line and we're watching as it happens. I think it is more likely to get the truth that way before the government has a chance to pull it and censor what they don't want us to know. (obviously I know the media is under strict guidance and the governement is still influencing what we see, but ovcerall we are seeing much more). Our media is infamous for reporting things before they are confirmed though, and are often wrong (election was a good example).

As far as how long the war will go, it will be a while. Even after we get into Baghdad and do our business, we're going to have to be a big force there while they are trying to work out a new democratic system otherwise another Hussein will just start more of the same. We still have soldiers in Bosnia.

[Shell]

well, TV is much different in this war. They have reporters on the front line and we're watching as it happens. I think it is more likely to get the truth that way before the government has a chance to pull it and censor what they don't want us to know. (obviously I know the media is under strict guidance and the governement is still influencing what we see, but ovcerall we are seeing much more). Our media is infamous for reporting things before they are confirmed though, and are often wrong (election was a good example).

As far as how long the war will go, it will be a while. Even after we get into Baghdad and do our business, we're going to have to be a big force there while they are trying to work out a new democratic system otherwise another Hussein will just start more of the same. We still have soldiers in Bosnia.

[Shell]

well, TV is much different in this war. They have reporters on the front line and we're watching as it happens. I think it is more likely to get the truth that way before the government has a chance to pull it and censor what they don't want us to know. (obviously I know the media is under strict guidance and the governement is still influencing what we see, but ovcerall we are seeing much more). Our media is infamous for reporting things before they are confirmed though, and are often wrong (election was a good example).

As far as how long the war will go, it will be a while. Even after we get into Baghdad and do our business, we're going to have to be a big force there while they are trying to work out a new democratic system otherwise another Hussein will just start more of the same. We still have soldiers in Bosnia.

[Turbulence]

CNN won't show pictures of the US POWs, but I got an interview of the POWs by Al Jazeera on the German CNN's site, N-TV. They looked scared and dirty. The one young female soldier looked especially frightened...N-TV wouldn't show the part of the Al Jazeera program showing the executed POWs (shot in the head, reportedly) and I'm glad. If the Iraqis executed these POWs we have reason for war, sadly.

If anyone wants the link I'll give it, but the pictures and video are quite disturbing.

[Turbulence]

CNN won't show pictures of the US POWs, but I got an interview of the POWs by Al Jazeera on the German CNN's site, N-TV. They looked scared and dirty. The one young female soldier looked especially frightened...N-TV wouldn't show the part of the Al Jazeera program showing the executed POWs (shot in the head, reportedly) and I'm glad. If the Iraqis executed these POWs we have reason for war, sadly.

If anyone wants the link I'll give it, but the pictures and video are quite disturbing.

[Turbulence]

CNN won't show pictures of the US POWs, but I got an interview of the POWs by Al Jazeera on the German CNN's site, N-TV. They looked scared and dirty. The one young female soldier looked especially frightened...N-TV wouldn't show the part of the Al Jazeera program showing the executed POWs (shot in the head, reportedly) and I'm glad. If the Iraqis executed these POWs we have reason for war, sadly.

If anyone wants the link I'll give it, but the pictures and video are quite disturbing.

[JaroFan]

Excellent article about Saddam's son...sports related.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2003/03/24/son_of_saddam/

[JaroFan]

Excellent article about Saddam's son...sports related.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2003/03/24/son_of_saddam/

[JaroFan]

Excellent article about Saddam's son...sports related.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2003/03/24/son_of_saddam/

[Jillsdad]

I have seen the pictures of the dead US servicemen and to my untrained eye it looks like they were executed and not killed during battle. WHile both servicemen that they showed up close were quite dirty and bloody there is no mistaking the fact that there was a single bullet hole in the middle of each forehead. Very gruesome and if true imho the gloves can come off and we need to do whatever is necessary to bring these war criminals to trial. Breaks every aspect and rule of the Geneva convention.

[Jillsdad]

I have seen the pictures of the dead US servicemen and to my untrained eye it looks like they were executed and not killed during battle. WHile both servicemen that they showed up close were quite dirty and bloody there is no mistaking the fact that there was a single bullet hole in the middle of each forehead. Very gruesome and if true imho the gloves can come off and we need to do whatever is necessary to bring these war criminals to trial. Breaks every aspect and rule of the Geneva convention.

[Jillsdad]

I have seen the pictures of the dead US servicemen and to my untrained eye it looks like they were executed and not killed during battle. WHile both servicemen that they showed up close were quite dirty and bloody there is no mistaking the fact that there was a single bullet hole in the middle of each forehead. Very gruesome and if true imho the gloves can come off and we need to do whatever is necessary to bring these war criminals to trial. Breaks every aspect and rule of the Geneva convention.

[Turbulence]

Very gruesome and if true imho the gloves can come off and we need to do whatever is necessary to bring these war criminals to trial. Breaks every aspect and rule of the Geneva convention.

I have been steadfast in my opinion that we have no substantial evidence of which warrants a war. If these troops really were executed, we do now. They executed our weaponless soldiers? Why not shoot yourself in the foot? They're asking for all of the firepower we have...

My opinion is steadily changing....This evil regime must be stopped...That SI article is a perfect example...they torture their own people because they don't do well in a mere game. It's sickening...

I do like the way the war is progressing. The Iraqi people are not at fault, so they should not be bombed. I'm certainly glad Dubya isn't unleashing all of the force that he could upon this evil government...

[Turbulence]

Very gruesome and if true imho the gloves can come off and we need to do whatever is necessary to bring these war criminals to trial. Breaks every aspect and rule of the Geneva convention.

I have been steadfast in my opinion that we have no substantial evidence of which warrants a war. If these troops really were executed, we do now. They executed our weaponless soldiers? Why not shoot yourself in the foot? They're asking for all of the firepower we have...

My opinion is steadily changing....This evil regime must be stopped...That SI article is a perfect example...they torture their own people because they don't do well in a mere game. It's sickening...

I do like the way the war is progressing. The Iraqi people are not at fault, so they should not be bombed. I'm certainly glad Dubya isn't unleashing all of the force that he could upon this evil government...

[Turbulence]

Very gruesome and if true imho the gloves can come off and we need to do whatever is necessary to bring these war criminals to trial. Breaks every aspect and rule of the Geneva convention.

I have been steadfast in my opinion that we have no substantial evidence of which warrants a war. If these troops really were executed, we do now. They executed our weaponless soldiers? Why not shoot yourself in the foot? They're asking for all of the firepower we have...

My opinion is steadily changing....This evil regime must be stopped...That SI article is a perfect example...they torture their own people because they don't do well in a mere game. It's sickening...

I do like the way the war is progressing. The Iraqi people are not at fault, so they should not be bombed. I'm certainly glad Dubya isn't unleashing all of the force that he could upon this evil government...

[mikus]

here a speech from michael moore (oscars)
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-video/Film/video/2003/03/24/moore1.mov
don't really understand what he's sayin, but it's something against bush isn't it?

[mikus]

here a speech from michael moore (oscars)
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-video/Film/video/2003/03/24/moore1.mov
don't really understand what he's sayin, but it's something against bush isn't it?

[mikus]

here a speech from michael moore (oscars)
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-video/Film/video/2003/03/24/moore1.mov
don't really understand what he's sayin, but it's something against bush isn't it?

[JaroFan]

here a speech from michael moore (oscars)
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-video/Film/video/2003/03/24/moore1.mov
don't really understand what he's sayin, but it's something against bush isn't it?

Yes, about Bush being a "fictitious leader". But it's interesting if you watch it on tv, yeah there were some cheers (it IS Hollywood, you know) but also a LOT of boos. I was pleased with that.

[JaroFan]

here a speech from michael moore (oscars)
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-video/Film/video/2003/03/24/moore1.mov
don't really understand what he's sayin, but it's something against bush isn't it?

Yes, about Bush being a "fictitious leader". But it's interesting if you watch it on tv, yeah there were some cheers (it IS Hollywood, you know) but also a LOT of boos. I was pleased with that.

[JaroFan]

here a speech from michael moore (oscars)
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-video/Film/video/2003/03/24/moore1.mov
don't really understand what he's sayin, but it's something against bush isn't it?

Yes, about Bush being a "fictitious leader". But it's interesting if you watch it on tv, yeah there were some cheers (it IS Hollywood, you know) but also a LOT of boos. I was pleased with that.

[Caniac]

That dude is soooo far left he makes Liberals mad. He's pretty much a joke.

[Caniac]

That dude is soooo far left he makes Liberals mad. He's pretty much a joke.

[Caniac]

That dude is soooo far left he makes Liberals mad. He's pretty much a joke.

[CaniacPanther]

This was on MSNBC today...there was a story about a British medic of Arabic descent treating some wounded Iraqi prisoners. While he's in the middle of working on one of them, the rest of the Iraqis suddenly start freaking out. The British medic, who was fluent in Arabic as well as English, asked them what all that was about. One of the Iraqis said that their commanding officer had told them that if they were captured, coalition forces would shoot them up with poison.

Just another example of Iraqi deception... :roll:

One more thing, last time I heard, our guys were still looking at the chemicals in some missiles they captured from the Iraqis...if they do have banned agents in them, we'll be able to bombard the inept UN with a bunch of "told ya so"s. :cool:

[CaniacPanther]

This was on MSNBC today...there was a story about a British medic of Arabic descent treating some wounded Iraqi prisoners. While he's in the middle of working on one of them, the rest of the Iraqis suddenly start freaking out. The British medic, who was fluent in Arabic as well as English, asked them what all that was about. One of the Iraqis said that their commanding officer had told them that if they were captured, coalition forces would shoot them up with poison.

Just another example of Iraqi deception... :roll:

One more thing, last time I heard, our guys were still looking at the chemicals in some missiles they captured from the Iraqis...if they do have banned agents in them, we'll be able to bombard the inept UN with a bunch of "told ya so"s. :cool:

[CaniacPanther]

This was on MSNBC today...there was a story about a British medic of Arabic descent treating some wounded Iraqi prisoners. While he's in the middle of working on one of them, the rest of the Iraqis suddenly start freaking out. The British medic, who was fluent in Arabic as well as English, asked them what all that was about. One of the Iraqis said that their commanding officer had told them that if they were captured, coalition forces would shoot them up with poison.

Just another example of Iraqi deception... :roll:

One more thing, last time I heard, our guys were still looking at the chemicals in some missiles they captured from the Iraqis...if they do have banned agents in them, we'll be able to bombard the inept UN with a bunch of "told ya so"s. :cool:

[opuntia]

Michael Moore was totally over the top, but did anyone hear what Steve Martin said after Moore's rant? He comes back with something like "I just saw the nicest thing, some teamsters were helping Michael Moore into the trunk of his limo."

[opuntia]

Michael Moore was totally over the top, but did anyone hear what Steve Martin said after Moore's rant? He comes back with something like "I just saw the nicest thing, some teamsters were helping Michael Moore into the trunk of his limo."

[opuntia]

Michael Moore was totally over the top, but did anyone hear what Steve Martin said after Moore's rant? He comes back with something like "I just saw the nicest thing, some teamsters were helping Michael Moore into the trunk of his limo."

[StormShaman]

Michael Moore is pretty okay most of the time--he's good for satire and his documentary was pretty good too.

But that speech he made last night was pretty damn uncool. There's a time and a place for voicing your opinions about such a touchy subject, and an awards show isn't really it.

As for Moore's political philosophy, he's more Libertarian than Liberal IMO.

But that's just my opinion.

[StormShaman]

Michael Moore is pretty okay most of the time--he's good for satire and his documentary was pretty good too.

But that speech he made last night was pretty damn uncool. There's a time and a place for voicing your opinions about such a touchy subject, and an awards show isn't really it.

As for Moore's political philosophy, he's more Libertarian than Liberal IMO.

But that's just my opinion.

[StormShaman]

Michael Moore is pretty okay most of the time--he's good for satire and his documentary was pretty good too.

But that speech he made last night was pretty damn uncool. There's a time and a place for voicing your opinions about such a touchy subject, and an awards show isn't really it.

As for Moore's political philosophy, he's more Libertarian than Liberal IMO.

But that's just my opinion.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I'm with Cam. He made that same speech from last night at the Independent Spirit Awards.....it fit a little better there since there is more of a rebel spirit going on there.

I generally love Moore but he pissed me off last night too. Making a statement of peace, like Adrian Brody did, is cool but don't drag out the whole politics thing at the Oscars....when everyone else was obviously restraining themselves. But then Michael Moore just wouldn't be Michael Moore if he didn't do that.

Incidentally.....EVERYONE should see his film "Bowling for Columbine" IMO.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I'm with Cam. He made that same speech from last night at the Independent Spirit Awards.....it fit a little better there since there is more of a rebel spirit going on there.

I generally love Moore but he pissed me off last night too. Making a statement of peace, like Adrian Brody did, is cool but don't drag out the whole politics thing at the Oscars....when everyone else was obviously restraining themselves. But then Michael Moore just wouldn't be Michael Moore if he didn't do that.

Incidentally.....EVERYONE should see his film "Bowling for Columbine" IMO.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I'm with Cam. He made that same speech from last night at the Independent Spirit Awards.....it fit a little better there since there is more of a rebel spirit going on there.

I generally love Moore but he pissed me off last night too. Making a statement of peace, like Adrian Brody did, is cool but don't drag out the whole politics thing at the Oscars....when everyone else was obviously restraining themselves. But then Michael Moore just wouldn't be Michael Moore if he didn't do that.

Incidentally.....EVERYONE should see his film "Bowling for Columbine" IMO.

[Guyute]

<--- staying out of a Michael Moore debate. :p

:sick:

[Guyute]

<--- staying out of a Michael Moore debate. :p

:sick:

[Guyute]

<--- staying out of a Michael Moore debate. :p

:sick:

[Don Cherry]

http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=2446263


Attached is for those who may not be real familar with Saddam's bunkers.

It seems calling them bunkers is a bit of an understatement. I know a recent graphic (gathered from various intelligence sources) in my newspaper protrayed something that more closely resembled an self-contained, underground building.

[Don Cherry]

http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=2446263


Attached is for those who may not be real familar with Saddam's bunkers.

It seems calling them bunkers is a bit of an understatement. I know a recent graphic (gathered from various intelligence sources) in my newspaper protrayed something that more closely resembled an self-contained, underground building.

[Don Cherry]

http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=2446263


Attached is for those who may not be real familar with Saddam's bunkers.

It seems calling them bunkers is a bit of an understatement. I know a recent graphic (gathered from various intelligence sources) in my newspaper protrayed something that more closely resembled an self-contained, underground building.

[JaroFan]

This is a very moving speech from a British commander.

Lieutenant-Colonel Tim Collins Speech to the Royal Irish Battle Group:
Imagine you are cooking in the heat and sun, as afraid as you can be, knowing you are about to fight, perhaps to kill, perhaps to die. Your commander says this:
The enemy should be in no doubt that we are his Nemesis and that we are bringing about his rightful destruction. There are many regional commanders who have stains on their souls and they are stoking the fires of Hell for Saddam. As they die they will know their deeds have brought them to this place. Show them no pity. But those who do not wish to go on that journey, we will not send. As for the others, I expect you to rock their world.

We go to liberate, not to conquer. We will not fly our flags in their country. We are entering Iraq to free a people, and the only flag that will be flown in that ancient land is their own. Don’t treat them as refugees, for they are in their own country.

I know men who have taken life needlessly in other conflicts. They live with the mark of Cain upon them. If someone surrenders to you, then remember they have that right in International law, and ensure that one day they go home to their family. The ones who wish to fight, well, we aim to please. If there are casualties of war, then remember, when they woke up and got dressed in the morning they did not plan to die this day. Allow them dignity in death. Bury them properly, and mark their graves.

You will be shunned unless your conduct is of the highest, for your deeds will follow you down history. Iraq is steeped in history. It is the site of the Garden of Eden, of the Great Flood, and the birth of Abraham. Tread lightly here. You will have to go a long way to find a more decent, generous and upright people than the Iraqis. You will be embarrassed by their hospitality, even thought they have nothing…

There may be people among us who will not see the end of this campaign. We will put them in their sleeping bags and send them back. There will be no time for sorrow. Let’s leave Iraq a better place for us having been there. Our business now, is north.

[JaroFan]

This is a very moving speech from a British commander.

Lieutenant-Colonel Tim Collins Speech to the Royal Irish Battle Group:
Imagine you are cooking in the heat and sun, as afraid as you can be, knowing you are about to fight, perhaps to kill, perhaps to die. Your commander says this:
The enemy should be in no doubt that we are his Nemesis and that we are bringing about his rightful destruction. There are many regional commanders who have stains on their souls and they are stoking the fires of Hell for Saddam. As they die they will know their deeds have brought them to this place. Show them no pity. But those who do not wish to go on that journey, we will not send. As for the others, I expect you to rock their world.

We go to liberate, not to conquer. We will not fly our flags in their country. We are entering Iraq to free a people, and the only flag that will be flown in that ancient land is their own. Don’t treat them as refugees, for they are in their own country.

I know men who have taken life needlessly in other conflicts. They live with the mark of Cain upon them. If someone surrenders to you, then remember they have that right in International law, and ensure that one day they go home to their family. The ones who wish to fight, well, we aim to please. If there are casualties of war, then remember, when they woke up and got dressed in the morning they did not plan to die this day. Allow them dignity in death. Bury them properly, and mark their graves.

You will be shunned unless your conduct is of the highest, for your deeds will follow you down history. Iraq is steeped in history. It is the site of the Garden of Eden, of the Great Flood, and the birth of Abraham. Tread lightly here. You will have to go a long way to find a more decent, generous and upright people than the Iraqis. You will be embarrassed by their hospitality, even thought they have nothing…

There may be people among us who will not see the end of this campaign. We will put them in their sleeping bags and send them back. There will be no time for sorrow. Let’s leave Iraq a better place for us having been there. Our business now, is north.

[JaroFan]

This is a very moving speech from a British commander.

Lieutenant-Colonel Tim Collins Speech to the Royal Irish Battle Group:
Imagine you are cooking in the heat and sun, as afraid as you can be, knowing you are about to fight, perhaps to kill, perhaps to die. Your commander says this:
The enemy should be in no doubt that we are his Nemesis and that we are bringing about his rightful destruction. There are many regional commanders who have stains on their souls and they are stoking the fires of Hell for Saddam. As they die they will know their deeds have brought them to this place. Show them no pity. But those who do not wish to go on that journey, we will not send. As for the others, I expect you to rock their world.

We go to liberate, not to conquer. We will not fly our flags in their country. We are entering Iraq to free a people, and the only flag that will be flown in that ancient land is their own. Don’t treat them as refugees, for they are in their own country.

I know men who have taken life needlessly in other conflicts. They live with the mark of Cain upon them. If someone surrenders to you, then remember they have that right in International law, and ensure that one day they go home to their family. The ones who wish to fight, well, we aim to please. If there are casualties of war, then remember, when they woke up and got dressed in the morning they did not plan to die this day. Allow them dignity in death. Bury them properly, and mark their graves.

You will be shunned unless your conduct is of the highest, for your deeds will follow you down history. Iraq is steeped in history. It is the site of the Garden of Eden, of the Great Flood, and the birth of Abraham. Tread lightly here. You will have to go a long way to find a more decent, generous and upright people than the Iraqis. You will be embarrassed by their hospitality, even thought they have nothing…

There may be people among us who will not see the end of this campaign. We will put them in their sleeping bags and send them back. There will be no time for sorrow. Let’s leave Iraq a better place for us having been there. Our business now, is north.

[Don Cherry]

Martha Burk has absolutely lost her mind..........

"televising the event from an all-male golf club, "is an insult to the nearly quarter million women in the U.S. armed forces."


http://www.golfweb.com/u/ce/multi/0,1977,6277574,00.html

[Don Cherry]

Martha Burk has absolutely lost her mind..........

"televising the event from an all-male golf club, "is an insult to the nearly quarter million women in the U.S. armed forces."


http://www.golfweb.com/u/ce/multi/0,1977,6277574,00.html

[Don Cherry]

Martha Burk has absolutely lost her mind..........

"televising the event from an all-male golf club, "is an insult to the nearly quarter million women in the U.S. armed forces."


http://www.golfweb.com/u/ce/multi/0,1977,6277574,00.html

[talkingcanes]

there are people who seem to have trouble separating sports from real life. as much as I love hockey and follow it passionately, I understand it doesn't compare to what those men and women in uniform are having to deal with on a daily basis.

while I don't know this for sure of course, I find it hard to believe that what Augusta National choses to do about it's membership is a big topic of discussion in Iraq and Kuwait.

[talkingcanes]

there are people who seem to have trouble separating sports from real life. as much as I love hockey and follow it passionately, I understand it doesn't compare to what those men and women in uniform are having to deal with on a daily basis.

while I don't know this for sure of course, I find it hard to believe that what Augusta National choses to do about it's membership is a big topic of discussion in Iraq and Kuwait.

[Shattered]

From ESPN.com:

Sign on statue calls Gretzky 'U$ Lackey'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press


EDMONTON, Alberta -- A statue of Wayne Gretzky was adorned with a sign that read "U$ Lackey'' on Tuesday in protest of the hockey star's recent comments supporting President Bush in the war against Iraq.

Employees of Skyreach Centre quickly removed the cardboard sign from the statue at the entrance to the home arena of Gretzky's former team, the Edmonton Oilers.

Earlier this week, Gretzky praised Bush as a great leader, saying he backed him 100 percent. However, Gretzky also shied away from criticizing Canada's decision to stay out of the conflict.

"The reality is, you know, the people we should be concerned about are the people fighting in Iraq, the people who are there on the missions,'' Gretzky said Tuesday.

"We shouldn't be worried about what entertainers or athletes or Wayne Gretzky or Don Cherry says. It's immaterial.''

Cherry and his Hockey Night in Canada cohost Ron MacLean came under criticism for debating the Iraq war on their televised Coach's Corner segment over the weekend.

:mad:

[Shattered]

From ESPN.com:

Sign on statue calls Gretzky 'U$ Lackey'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press


EDMONTON, Alberta -- A statue of Wayne Gretzky was adorned with a sign that read "U$ Lackey'' on Tuesday in protest of the hockey star's recent comments supporting President Bush in the war against Iraq.

Employees of Skyreach Centre quickly removed the cardboard sign from the statue at the entrance to the home arena of Gretzky's former team, the Edmonton Oilers.

Earlier this week, Gretzky praised Bush as a great leader, saying he backed him 100 percent. However, Gretzky also shied away from criticizing Canada's decision to stay out of the conflict.

"The reality is, you know, the people we should be concerned about are the people fighting in Iraq, the people who are there on the missions,'' Gretzky said Tuesday.

"We shouldn't be worried about what entertainers or athletes or Wayne Gretzky or Don Cherry says. It's immaterial.''

Cherry and his Hockey Night in Canada cohost Ron MacLean came under criticism for debating the Iraq war on their televised Coach's Corner segment over the weekend.

:mad:

[VandyCane]

One of the things that is interesting to observe is the subtle censorship that occurs during times of war. Gretsky and Don Cherry should be able to express their support. Michael Moore and the Dixie Chicks should be able to express their disagreement. (Before people pounce on that, I will say that Michael Moore picked an inappropriate forum in which to speak, but he should be able to speak his mind) When we no longer allow ourselves to have these political discussions then we run the risk of becoming a nation where free speech and thoughts are not allowed.

[VandyCane]

One of the things that is interesting to observe is the subtle censorship that occurs during times of war. Gretsky and Don Cherry should be able to express their support. Michael Moore and the Dixie Chicks should be able to express their disagreement. (Before people pounce on that, I will say that Michael Moore picked an inappropriate forum in which to speak, but he should be able to speak his mind) When we no longer allow ourselves to have these political discussions then we run the risk of becoming a nation where free speech and thoughts are not allowed.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

a nation where free speech and thoughts are not allowed.

Like Iraq.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

a nation where free speech and thoughts are not allowed.

Like Iraq.

[Guyute]

voicing your displeasure with the administration's choices/stance on the war is one thing... and yes, imo, is fine.

BUT... making those types of comments regarding the president's person, is another story all together.

I may not have voted for Bush. I may not like the guy all that much. but I'll be damned if I'm going to launch a personal attack on the leader of the free world.

the Dixie Chicks will NEVER recover from that statement. Nor should they. saying that they don't believe in the reasons for going to war would've been fine. but no, they went and talked about what an embarrassment W is... and that is unacceptable

and I've already said I'm not going to get into a Michael Moore debate. ;)

[Guyute]

voicing your displeasure with the administration's choices/stance on the war is one thing... and yes, imo, is fine.

BUT... making those types of comments regarding the president's person, is another story all together.

I may not have voted for Bush. I may not like the guy all that much. but I'll be damned if I'm going to launch a personal attack on the leader of the free world.

the Dixie Chicks will NEVER recover from that statement. Nor should they. saying that they don't believe in the reasons for going to war would've been fine. but no, they went and talked about what an embarrassment W is... and that is unacceptable

and I've already said I'm not going to get into a Michael Moore debate. ;)

[Guyute]

PS- I do wish that these people who enjoy their freedom to protest, and voice their opinion, would realize how much blood was shed to allow them those freedoms.

war is a necessary evil.

godspeed to our brothers and sisters abroad.

[Guyute]

PS- I do wish that these people who enjoy their freedom to protest, and voice their opinion, would realize how much blood was shed to allow them those freedoms.

war is a necessary evil.

godspeed to our brothers and sisters abroad.

[opuntia]

I think the issue some people have with entertainers' airing their political views is that they are paid attention to by millions of people for no other reason than their celebrity. Yeah, I have the right to announce my views, too, but I don't have millions of people watching me when I do it. I think it is inappropriate for Moore or the Dixie Chicks to make political statements to a captive audience who is there to be entertained. If Gretzky came out before a hockey game to announce his political views to the audience, that would be equally inappropriate. I don't mind generic statements such as wearing a button or saying that you're praying for peace or the troops or whatever but attacks and inflammatory statements on either side of the issue just ain't nice.

[opuntia]

I think the issue some people have with entertainers' airing their political views is that they are paid attention to by millions of people for no other reason than their celebrity. Yeah, I have the right to announce my views, too, but I don't have millions of people watching me when I do it. I think it is inappropriate for Moore or the Dixie Chicks to make political statements to a captive audience who is there to be entertained. If Gretzky came out before a hockey game to announce his political views to the audience, that would be equally inappropriate. I don't mind generic statements such as wearing a button or saying that you're praying for peace or the troops or whatever but attacks and inflammatory statements on either side of the issue just ain't nice.

[mikus]

the leader of the free world.

since when bush is the leader of "the free world"??

[mikus]

the leader of the free world.

since when bush is the leader of "the free world"??

[talkingcanes]

the right to speak freely is precious and blood has been shed to protect that right.

I agree that people have the right to express their opinions. The side effect of free speech is that you also have to accept the feedback/backlash that goes with it when other citizens exercise their right to free speech.

People tend to get themselves in trouble when the opinion is a personal attack (see Chicks, Dixie).

[talkingcanes]

the right to speak freely is precious and blood has been shed to protect that right.

I agree that people have the right to express their opinions. The side effect of free speech is that you also have to accept the feedback/backlash that goes with it when other citizens exercise their right to free speech.

People tend to get themselves in trouble when the opinion is a personal attack (see Chicks, Dixie).

[Guyute]

that's what the US President has been referred to for a looooong time mikus. and no, not just by me.

ps- is that all you had to add to the conversation? no thoughts about what you should be allowed to say or not? :beatup:

[Guyute]

that's what the US President has been referred to for a looooong time mikus. and no, not just by me.

ps- is that all you had to add to the conversation? no thoughts about what you should be allowed to say or not? :beatup:

[opuntia]

Yeah, pretty much ever since the US became the major democratic world power. Probably sometime just post WWII.

[opuntia]

Yeah, pretty much ever since the US became the major democratic world power. Probably sometime just post WWII.

[mikus]

that's what the US President has been referred to for a looooong time mikus. and no, not just by me.

and the "free world" is the usa or the whole world?

[mikus]

that's what the US President has been referred to for a looooong time mikus. and no, not just by me.

and the "free world" is the usa or the whole world?

[opuntia]

I think "free world" encompasses non-communist non-socialist more or less democratic countries.

[opuntia]

I think "free world" encompasses non-communist non-socialist more or less democratic countries.

[Caniac]

All democratic free nations. Including yours.

[Caniac]

All democratic free nations. Including yours.

[Guyute]

mikus, it's moniker. you'd probably have an easier time with our culture if you didn't take things so literally that they upset you. ;)

because the US President is called the leader of the free world does NOT mean that you have to treat him as such.

it does mean that your country (and any democratic country) is supposed to back us though... but we know how that can go. :roll:

[Guyute]

mikus, it's moniker. you'd probably have an easier time with our culture if you didn't take things so literally that they upset you. ;)

because the US President is called the leader of the free world does NOT mean that you have to treat him as such.

it does mean that your country (and any democratic country) is supposed to back us though... but we know how that can go. :roll:

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Boy, I disagree with you guys here. Maybe I don't get something. Tell me what gives Bush any kind of power over Germany? Especially if Germany is a democracy. When did they vote for or against Bush?

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Boy, I disagree with you guys here. Maybe I don't get something. Tell me what gives Bush any kind of power over Germany? Especially if Germany is a democracy. When did they vote for or against Bush?

[mikus]

mikus, it's moniker. you'd probably have an easier time with our culture if you didn't take things so literally that they upset you. ;)

because the US President is called the leader of the free world does NOT mean that you have to treat him as such.

it does mean that your country (and any democratic country) is supposed to back us though... but we know how that can go. :roll:
that's correct, without the us support, germany and so on wouldn't be like today.
but i think the time is over to call the us president the "leader of the free world".
this time is over.
imo

[mikus]

mikus, it's moniker. you'd probably have an easier time with our culture if you didn't take things so literally that they upset you. ;)

because the US President is called the leader of the free world does NOT mean that you have to treat him as such.

it does mean that your country (and any democratic country) is supposed to back us though... but we know how that can go. :roll:
that's correct, without the us support, germany and so on wouldn't be like today.
but i think the time is over to call the us president the "leader of the free world".
this time is over.
imo

[Guyute]

your free to your opinion.

but watch how you express it.

maybe since you think we're over there doing nothing but killing innocent people... you should read something like this: http://www.womenforiraq.com/

then tell me what we're doing there is wrong.

[Guyute]

your free to your opinion.

but watch how you express it.

maybe since you think we're over there doing nothing but killing innocent people... you should read something like this: http://www.womenforiraq.com/

then tell me what we're doing there is wrong.

[mikus]

your free to your opinion.

but watch how you express it.

maybe since you think we're over there doing nothing but killing innocent people... you should read something like this: http://www.womenforiraq.com/

then tell me what we're doing there is wrong.
i wouldn't say anything against that war when bush's main intention wouldn't be oil. saddam is a damn inhuman. he MUST be removed.
but i don't accept bush's intentions. and his main intention is not world peace, that's for sure.

[mikus]

your free to your opinion.

but watch how you express it.

maybe since you think we're over there doing nothing but killing innocent people... you should read something like this: http://www.womenforiraq.com/

then tell me what we're doing there is wrong.
i wouldn't say anything against that war when bush's main intention wouldn't be oil. saddam is a damn inhuman. he MUST be removed.
but i don't accept bush's intentions. and his main intention is not world peace, that's for sure.

[opuntia]

Oh, I don't know if the time is totally over - where would pretty much any group of nations (NATO, the UN) be without US money, troops, etc.?

[opuntia]

Oh, I don't know if the time is totally over - where would pretty much any group of nations (NATO, the UN) be without US money, troops, etc.?

[mikus]

Oh, I don't know if the time is totally over - where would pretty much any group of nations (NATO, the UN) be without US money, troops, etc.?
yes, the us are the world power, but they aren't the leaders of the free countries who decide what happens...

[mikus]

Oh, I don't know if the time is totally over - where would pretty much any group of nations (NATO, the UN) be without US money, troops, etc.?
yes, the us are the world power, but they aren't the leaders of the free countries who decide what happens...

[Guyute]

mikus- I'm not sure I can believe you have any idea of what this is about. that's not a personal attack... just an opinion formed by reading your statements.

what do you believe is bush's main intention for going after saddam? I'd really like to know.

you posted rather quickly after my last post, which provided the link for Women for a free Iraq. I take it you didn't bother to read it. I've listened to the president of that organization on the radio, day after day. She, as would most Iraqi citizens, would give Anything to be free from saddam's rule. If that includes some loss of life in the process (she even went so far to say that someone from her family could happen to be killed) it is STILL worth it....

those people would give ANYTHING to have him removed. you think there are casualties of innocent people during this war? go read some of those stories on that page and tell me that there aren't MORE casualties in everyday life than there are during this campaign.

[Guyute]

mikus- I'm not sure I can believe you have any idea of what this is about. that's not a personal attack... just an opinion formed by reading your statements.

what do you believe is bush's main intention for going after saddam? I'd really like to know.

you posted rather quickly after my last post, which provided the link for Women for a free Iraq. I take it you didn't bother to read it. I've listened to the president of that organization on the radio, day after day. She, as would most Iraqi citizens, would give Anything to be free from saddam's rule. If that includes some loss of life in the process (she even went so far to say that someone from her family could happen to be killed) it is STILL worth it....

those people would give ANYTHING to have him removed. you think there are casualties of innocent people during this war? go read some of those stories on that page and tell me that there aren't MORE casualties in everyday life than there are during this campaign.

[mikus]

mikus- I'm not sure I can believe you have any idea of what this is about. that's not a personal attack... just an opinion formed by reading your statements.

what do you believe is bush's main intention for going after saddam? I'd really like to know.

you posted rather quickly after my last post, which provided the link for Women for a free Iraq. I take it you didn't bother to read it. I've listened to the president of that organization on the radio, day after day. She, as would most Iraqi citizens, would give Anything to be free from saddam's rule. If that includes some loss of life in the process (she even went so far to say that someone from her family could happen to be killed) it is STILL worth it....

those people would give ANYTHING to have him removed. you think there are casualties of innocent people during this war? go read some of those stories on that page and tell me that there aren't MORE casualties in everyday life than there are during this campaign.
1. i know what saddam is doing with his people
2. sorry, my english is not good enough to understand it
3. bush's main intention is oil, of course, he wants to remove saddam too, but his main intention is still oil

[mikus]

mikus- I'm not sure I can believe you have any idea of what this is about. that's not a personal attack... just an opinion formed by reading your statements.

what do you believe is bush's main intention for going after saddam? I'd really like to know.

you posted rather quickly after my last post, which provided the link for Women for a free Iraq. I take it you didn't bother to read it. I've listened to the president of that organization on the radio, day after day. She, as would most Iraqi citizens, would give Anything to be free from saddam's rule. If that includes some loss of life in the process (she even went so far to say that someone from her family could happen to be killed) it is STILL worth it....

those people would give ANYTHING to have him removed. you think there are casualties of innocent people during this war? go read some of those stories on that page and tell me that there aren't MORE casualties in everyday life than there are during this campaign.
1. i know what saddam is doing with his people
2. sorry, my english is not good enough to understand it
3. bush's main intention is oil, of course, he wants to remove saddam too, but his main intention is still oil

[Guyute]

Oil. http://www.tridead.net/forums/images/smilies/lol.gif no mikus. it's not Oil.

know how much of our oil comes from Iraq? 10% at most. We don't need to Steal their oil.

even if we did, it doesn't matter. we are there to remove saddam from power, destroy his wmd, and to end the reign of terror by this madman.

the US will spend months (at least) in Iraq after this is over, helping them rebuild their cities (of which we will probably give them about 2 BILLION dollars to do). helping them transition to their policies of democracy. why would we steal their oil? that's ludicrous.

ps- I'm sorry your english isn't good enough to read that page. reading/hearing the stories of Iraqi's who have dealt with this first hand, tends to shed a slightly different light on the subject.

[Guyute]

Oil. http://www.tridead.net/forums/images/smilies/lol.gif no mikus. it's not Oil.

know how much of our oil comes from Iraq? 10% at most. We don't need to Steal their oil.

even if we did, it doesn't matter. we are there to remove saddam from power, destroy his wmd, and to end the reign of terror by this madman.

the US will spend months (at least) in Iraq after this is over, helping them rebuild their cities (of which we will probably give them about 2 BILLION dollars to do). helping them transition to their policies of democracy. why would we steal their oil? that's ludicrous.

ps- I'm sorry your english isn't good enough to read that page. reading/hearing the stories of Iraqi's who have dealt with this first hand, tends to shed a slightly different light on the subject.

[mikus]

Oil. http://www.tridead.net/forums/images/smilies/lol.gif no mikus. it's not Oil.

know how much of our oil comes from Iraq? 10% at most. We don't need to Steal their oil.

even if we did, it doesn't matter. we are there to remove saddam from power, destroy his wmd, and to end the reign of terror by this madman.

the US will spend months (at least) in Iraq after this is over, helping them rebuild their cities (of which we will probably give them about 2 BILLION dollars to do). helping them transition to their policies of democracy. why would we steal their oil? that's ludicrous.

ps- I'm sorry your english isn't good enough to read that page. reading/hearing the stories of Iraqi's who have dealt with this first hand, tends to shed a slightly different light on the subject.
and i still say it is oil.
and i know all that stories from the horrible things saddam is doing with his people. that's nasty and horrible. inhuman.

[mikus]

Oil. http://www.tridead.net/forums/images/smilies/lol.gif no mikus. it's not Oil.

know how much of our oil comes from Iraq? 10% at most. We don't need to Steal their oil.

even if we did, it doesn't matter. we are there to remove saddam from power, destroy his wmd, and to end the reign of terror by this madman.

the US will spend months (at least) in Iraq after this is over, helping them rebuild their cities (of which we will probably give them about 2 BILLION dollars to do). helping them transition to their policies of democracy. why would we steal their oil? that's ludicrous.

ps- I'm sorry your english isn't good enough to read that page. reading/hearing the stories of Iraqi's who have dealt with this first hand, tends to shed a slightly different light on the subject.
and i still say it is oil.
and i know all that stories from the horrible things saddam is doing with his people. that's nasty and horrible. inhuman.

[Guyute]

well that says it all.

:D

[Guyute]

well that says it all.

:D

[mikus]

well that says it all.

:D
you think you're the only one who knows what's goin on eh?

[mikus]

well that says it all.

:D
you think you're the only one who knows what's goin on eh?

[mikus]

ok.
the costs to take the oil from iraq are WAY lower than to take it from other countries. that's the thing. bush will save much money.

[mikus]

ok.
the costs to take the oil from iraq are WAY lower than to take it from other countries. that's the thing. bush will save much money.

[Guyute]

the only one that knows what's going on? hardly.

putting words in my mouth now are ye? :crazy:

please enlighten me as to why we would SAVE the Iraqi citizens, rebuild their country, get them a new political structure, hang out while everything is put into place, get them back on their feet... and then walk off with their oil.?

it has been said time and time again, that that oil is Iraqi's oil. It stays there, because it is Theirs. They're going to need it, it's not hard to understand why.

Might the US make a deal to buy some oil from Iraq when this is done? of course, anything is possible. Especially if the Iraqi people are going to be looking to sell it for decent funds, instead of Saddamn giving it away to certain countries as payment for favors.

are we going to "take" their oil? hell no.
is this war "all about" oil? helllllll no.

[Guyute]

the only one that knows what's going on? hardly.

putting words in my mouth now are ye? :crazy:

please enlighten me as to why we would SAVE the Iraqi citizens, rebuild their country, get them a new political structure, hang out while everything is put into place, get them back on their feet... and then walk off with their oil.?

it has been said time and time again, that that oil is Iraqi's oil. It stays there, because it is Theirs. They're going to need it, it's not hard to understand why.

Might the US make a deal to buy some oil from Iraq when this is done? of course, anything is possible. Especially if the Iraqi people are going to be looking to sell it for decent funds, instead of Saddamn giving it away to certain countries as payment for favors.

are we going to "take" their oil? hell no.
is this war "all about" oil? helllllll no.

[JaroFan]

Let's just wait until after the war and see if the US begins to occupy Iraq's oil fields. Then we can prove to everyone the war was NOT fought over oil. Again, that's why France didn't want in...they get their oil from Iraq.


One last thing about the Chicks, funny how she has to say it outside of her country. Could she be scared? I'd LOVE to hear her say it in the Houston Astrodome.

[JaroFan]

Let's just wait until after the war and see if the US begins to occupy Iraq's oil fields. Then we can prove to everyone the war was NOT fought over oil. Again, that's why France didn't want in...they get their oil from Iraq.


One last thing about the Chicks, funny how she has to say it outside of her country. Could she be scared? I'd LOVE to hear her say it in the Houston Astrodome.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

funny how she has to say it outside of her country. Could she be scared?

I bet there are people scared to say they don't like Sadaam in Iraq too.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

funny how she has to say it outside of her country. Could she be scared?

I bet there are people scared to say they don't like Sadaam in Iraq too.

[tommy]

Ok you guys, I have to say something.

First of all, who gives a crap if Bush wants oil (which is NOT the main objective in the first place.) If he wanted oil, he would occupy Iraq and start the takeover.

By the time Iraq is back to 'normal', that is, some sense of a democracy, and can get all its wheels spinning again, Bush might me long gone as a president.

The point is that an evil dictator is going to be overthrown, and the security of a large portion of the world will improve.

You can't just read the news and say that you know what's going on. There are innumerable things going on that citizens have no clue of. And most importantly, none of us can read Bush's mind, so who is to say what his intentions are. Why would he want to steal oil from Iraq? For crying out lout, he wanted to get oil from Alaska! Why go through all this for Iraqi oil if he wanted to get it from our own country.

My main point, I would say, is that NOBODY really knows everything that is going on. You've gotta be a little paranoid. By no means does the government let civilians know everything that is going on. If the population knows too much, that is definitely a bad thing.

[tommy]

Ok you guys, I have to say something.

First of all, who gives a crap if Bush wants oil (which is NOT the main objective in the first place.) If he wanted oil, he would occupy Iraq and start the takeover.

By the time Iraq is back to 'normal', that is, some sense of a democracy, and can get all its wheels spinning again, Bush might me long gone as a president.

The point is that an evil dictator is going to be overthrown, and the security of a large portion of the world will improve.

You can't just read the news and say that you know what's going on. There are innumerable things going on that citizens have no clue of. And most importantly, none of us can read Bush's mind, so who is to say what his intentions are. Why would he want to steal oil from Iraq? For crying out lout, he wanted to get oil from Alaska! Why go through all this for Iraqi oil if he wanted to get it from our own country.

My main point, I would say, is that NOBODY really knows everything that is going on. You've gotta be a little paranoid. By no means does the government let civilians know everything that is going on. If the population knows too much, that is definitely a bad thing.

[mikus]

Might the US make a deal to buy some oil from Iraq.
that's it.
sorry, i expressed myself bad. that's what i meant with taking their oil

[mikus]

Might the US make a deal to buy some oil from Iraq.
that's it.
sorry, i expressed myself bad. that's what i meant with taking their oil

[Guyute]

Again, that's why France didn't want in...they get their oil from Iraq.

precisely. pretty decent deal with saddam from what I understand. which will make the new regime/oil control all the more fun to watch :D

unfortunately, I will miss my french wine :sad:

I bet there are people scared to say they don't like Sadaam in Iraq too.
count on that. though I doubt Bush would cut out someone's tongue in broad daylight for saying they don't like him.

[Guyute]

Again, that's why France didn't want in...they get their oil from Iraq.

precisely. pretty decent deal with saddam from what I understand. which will make the new regime/oil control all the more fun to watch :D

unfortunately, I will miss my french wine :sad:

I bet there are people scared to say they don't like Sadaam in Iraq too.
count on that. though I doubt Bush would cut out someone's tongue in broad daylight for saying they don't like him.

[tommy]

count on that. though I doubt Bush would cut out someone's tongue in broad daylight for saying they don't like him.

or mutilate them with electric screwdrivers, or peel their skin, or take them to rape rooms, etc. all kinds of horror stories.

[tommy]

count on that. though I doubt Bush would cut out someone's tongue in broad daylight for saying they don't like him.

or mutilate them with electric screwdrivers, or peel their skin, or take them to rape rooms, etc. all kinds of horror stories.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

though I doubt Bush would cut out someone's tongue in broad daylight for saying they don't like him.

Exactly. And neither should the citizens of Bush's country....neither literally nor figuratively.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

though I doubt Bush would cut out someone's tongue in broad daylight for saying they don't like him.

Exactly. And neither should the citizens of Bush's country....neither literally nor figuratively.

[moonstomper]

though I doubt Bush would cut out someone's tongue in broad daylight for saying they don't like him.

Exactly. And neither should the citizens of Bush's country....neither literally nor figuratively.

While I agree, some demented part of me wants to see their careers ended, I just find humor in situations like this, where if they just kept their mouths shut, everything would be fine for them now

[moonstomper]

though I doubt Bush would cut out someone's tongue in broad daylight for saying they don't like him.

Exactly. And neither should the citizens of Bush's country....neither literally nor figuratively.

While I agree, some demented part of me wants to see their careers ended, I just find humor in situations like this, where if they just kept their mouths shut, everything would be fine for them now

[SouthernHockeyChick]

where if they just kept their mouths shut, everything would be fine for them now



Eeewwwww boy does that sentence make me uncomfortable. But I'm thinking you didn't mean it like I took it. :)

[SouthernHockeyChick]

where if they just kept their mouths shut, everything would be fine for them now



Eeewwwww boy does that sentence make me uncomfortable. But I'm thinking you didn't mean it like I took it. :)

[JaroFan]

[
While I agree, some demented part of me wants to see their careers ended, I just find humor in situations like this, where if they just kept their mouths shut, everything would be fine for them now[/quote]


Me too. I'd like to live my life without knowing how Martin Sheen, Jeannine Garofolo(sp), Beastie Boys and others feel about politics/war. Just make your movies or music and move on.


Just heard the newest from France. People have vandalized a replice of the Statue of Liberty & cracked a plaque honoring the 9/11 victims.

[JaroFan]

[
While I agree, some demented part of me wants to see their careers ended, I just find humor in situations like this, where if they just kept their mouths shut, everything would be fine for them now[/quote]


Me too. I'd like to live my life without knowing how Martin Sheen, Jeannine Garofolo(sp), Beastie Boys and others feel about politics/war. Just make your movies or music and move on.


Just heard the newest from France. People have vandalized a replice of the Statue of Liberty & cracked a plaque honoring the 9/11 victims.

[mikus]

Just heard the newest from France. People have vandalized a replice of the Statue of Liberty & cracked a plaque honoring the 9/11 victims.
there are idiots in the world and there will always be idiots.

[mikus]

Just heard the newest from France. People have vandalized a replice of the Statue of Liberty & cracked a plaque honoring the 9/11 victims.
there are idiots in the world and there will always be idiots.

[mikus]

it's the same crap like "freedom fries"

[mikus]

it's the same crap like "freedom fries"

[moonstomper]

Eeewwwww boy does that sentence make me uncomfortable. But I'm thinking you didn't mean it like I took it. :)

the way I meant was, it was a totally unsolicited opinion (if I understand the situation correctly, someone please correct me if Im wrong), no one asked their views on the war, they just said "Just so you know, we're ashamed the President is from Texas", like Texas is this magical place free of murderers and child molestors, that the only bad thing from Texas is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES! Ladies, I give Texas a bad name, the president should make you proud, he is standing up to pure evil when no one else would, (Im trying my best to stay out of the political discussions BTW)

[moonstomper]

Eeewwwww boy does that sentence make me uncomfortable. But I'm thinking you didn't mean it like I took it. :)

the way I meant was, it was a totally unsolicited opinion (if I understand the situation correctly, someone please correct me if Im wrong), no one asked their views on the war, they just said "Just so you know, we're ashamed the President is from Texas", like Texas is this magical place free of murderers and child molestors, that the only bad thing from Texas is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES! Ladies, I give Texas a bad name, the president should make you proud, he is standing up to pure evil when no one else would, (Im trying my best to stay out of the political discussions BTW)

[Guyute]

that goes beyond being an idiot. :mad:

but I've tried to curtail my harsher opinions on France... even if it's hard to do... because we have at least one person here who is part (?) French and gets offended by it.

suffice it to say I have not been happy, at all, by their actions to date, and this is just the cherry on top.

[Guyute]

that goes beyond being an idiot. :mad:

but I've tried to curtail my harsher opinions on France... even if it's hard to do... because we have at least one person here who is part (?) French and gets offended by it.

suffice it to say I have not been happy, at all, by their actions to date, and this is just the cherry on top.

[Guyute]

it's the same crap like "freedom fries"

just what is this comment in reference to?

PLEASE tell me you're not comparing the re-naming of food to the destruction of an american symbol of peace/freedom (statue of liberty), and a plaque remembering our country's biggest tragedy ever.

please tell me that you're not. :crazy:

[Guyute]

it's the same crap like "freedom fries"

just what is this comment in reference to?

PLEASE tell me you're not comparing the re-naming of food to the destruction of an american symbol of peace/freedom (statue of liberty), and a plaque remembering our country's biggest tragedy ever.

please tell me that you're not. :crazy:

[VandyCane]

Exactly. And neither should the citizens of Bush's country....neither literally nor figuratively.

Thanks, SHC. That was may point when I started this part of the discussion. People who may not agree with the war should not feel like they are walking on egg shells by expressing their views.

Just because I am very worried about the wisdom of sending our troops into a hornet's nest does not mean I am unpatriotic or less of an American. I am glad that there are men and women putting their lives at risk to do what our commander in chief has asked of them. The question is, should we be asking them to? When talk of war/inspections first started it was all about disarming Iraq and making sure they were no weapons of mass destruction. Now it is about instituting a democracy and building a nation. Those are two very different objectives in my opinion.

[VandyCane]

Exactly. And neither should the citizens of Bush's country....neither literally nor figuratively.

Thanks, SHC. That was may point when I started this part of the discussion. People who may not agree with the war should not feel like they are walking on egg shells by expressing their views.

Just because I am very worried about the wisdom of sending our troops into a hornet's nest does not mean I am unpatriotic or less of an American. I am glad that there are men and women putting their lives at risk to do what our commander in chief has asked of them. The question is, should we be asking them to? When talk of war/inspections first started it was all about disarming Iraq and making sure they were no weapons of mass destruction. Now it is about instituting a democracy and building a nation. Those are two very different objectives in my opinion.

[moonstomper]

When talk of war/inspections first started it was all about disarming Iraq and making sure they were no weapons of mass destruction. Now it is about instituting a democracy and building a nation. Those are two very different objectives in my opinion.

I think both objectives are directly tied together, weve just had enough, Sadaam was not going to disarm willfully, or admit to harboring WMD, or cooperate at all, weve given him too many chances

[moonstomper]

When talk of war/inspections first started it was all about disarming Iraq and making sure they were no weapons of mass destruction. Now it is about instituting a democracy and building a nation. Those are two very different objectives in my opinion.

I think both objectives are directly tied together, weve just had enough, Sadaam was not going to disarm willfully, or admit to harboring WMD, or cooperate at all, weve given him too many chances

[mikus]

it's the same crap like "freedom fries"

just what is this comment in reference to?

PLEASE tell me you're not comparing the re-naming of food to the destruction of an american symbol of peace/freedom (statue of liberty), and a plaque remembering our country's biggest tragedy ever.

please tell me that you're not. :crazy:
of course this is not the same and the destroying is harder and more idiotic, but the thinking behind both things is the same crap.
that's what i meant.

[mikus]

it's the same crap like "freedom fries"

just what is this comment in reference to?

PLEASE tell me you're not comparing the re-naming of food to the destruction of an american symbol of peace/freedom (statue of liberty), and a plaque remembering our country's biggest tragedy ever.

please tell me that you're not. :crazy:
of course this is not the same and the destroying is harder and more idiotic, but the thinking behind both things is the same crap.
that's what i meant.

[Caniac]

Allright I've had about enough. Mikus, this crap might fly in Europe but it isn't going to fly here.

One more time, and one last time, you need to check that attitude. This the last time I am going to tell you.

[Caniac]

Allright I've had about enough. Mikus, this crap might fly in Europe but it isn't going to fly here.

One more time, and one last time, you need to check that attitude. This the last time I am going to tell you.