Red Sox!! [Archive] - LetsGoCanes.com

Jillsdad

10-07-2003, 12:39 PM

Being a YANKEE fan I am glad to see the Red Sox win. Hopefully the Yankees will beat the Red Sox and leave those pore pathetic Red Sox fans crying in their beer once again. Should have never sold the Babe. Mia Hamm is through with soccer so it is time her and hubby Nomah Gahciapahra spend some quality time together. I do like Trot Nixon though because he is a Wilmingtonian. And how about that collision between Damian Jackson and Unfrozen Caveman Centerfielder. I am glad UCC was not hurt too bad though.

Why does everyone dislike the Yankees so much, is it because they win or is it because they spend a lot of money to win?

Lets Go Yankees Clap Clap clapclapclap
Lets Go Yankees Clap Clap clapclapclap

lvscolencanes

10-07-2003, 01:14 PM

I just knew you were are Yankees fan before i even saw your post... :p , but I guess thats ok.... ;)

I guess I dislike them so much, b/c they have to spend so much money to win..... :D

YUCK YANKEES clap clap!! ;) :vamp:

HockeyPat

10-07-2003, 01:37 PM

I hate the owner.
I hate teams that drive up players' salarys.
I hate their fans.
I hate Clemmons.
I hate Jeter's commericals.
I hate the Bronx.
I hate Yankees!

Jillsdad

10-07-2003, 01:38 PM

Yes i have been a Yankees fan for as long as i can remember. Since the days of Craig Nettles, Thurman Munson, Mickey Rivers, Bucky Dent et al. As for the money aspect, yes Steinbrenner spends a lot of money, and yes he is an ass, but if you remember back to the late 80's/early 90's he tried to spend a lot of money as well and nobody wanted to play for him. You add Joe Torre(class act) as well as homegrown products Jeter, Williams, Rivera, Posada and Pettitte and now everybody wants to play for the Yankees. Hell even manny Ramirez wants to play for the Yankees. So while I dislike Steinbrenner, I am happy that he tries to make his team better by getting players. Boston spends a lot of money as well but unfortunately for them they don't always spend the money on the right people. And let us not forget the Arizona Diamondbacks, who went out and bought themselves a World series caliber roster. Only problem is they had to borrow money from MLB in order to pay the salaries on that roster, something the Yankees have never done nor will ever have to do. So which is worse, having MLB subsidizea bought roster or have a rich owner who spends money to make the team better.

Jillsdad

10-07-2003, 01:57 PM

So I ask you Hockeypat, do you hate the Boston Red Sox, Arizona Diamondbacks, Atlanta Braves, Texas Rangers, Los Angeles Dodgers also?
All the teams abovr have also been prime culprits in the extraordinary rise in player salaries.(ie A-Rod, Kevin Brown, Gary Sheffield, Manny Ramirez just to name a few.)

It is good to know that you hate me since I am one of their fans also.

lvscolencanes

10-07-2003, 02:04 PM

I dont hate you at all - I mostly kid around with ya Jillsdad. I hope you know that. I am just an avid Braves fan, so naturally I just by nature have to dislike the Yankees... ;)

Mookie

10-07-2003, 10:16 PM

I'll post my 2 cents on the issue. There is certainly a lot of jealousy involved in the massive Yankee hatred. The money spending by the Yankees goes way back before George or even CBS, we all know that. Selling the Babe in order to finance a play, that was just plain stupidity by the Sox and an obvious steal for the Yanks. From there they always had the money and prestiege of playing with the Babe to attract the best players. It snowballed from there, I think.

Sure, George has spent some bad money... Brit Burns, Ed Whitson, etc. But he has the bottomless pockets to just keep going. A luxury not many other teams have. $180 million for 1 team.... that's just insane. Spending $6 million on a number 6 starter that could hardly be used out of the bullpen is tough to beat. Then on top of that, he spends millions on Jon Lieber this year (when he's recovering from surgery and can't pitch) just to have him for next year to replace Clemons.

It's real nice to have some homegrown products, too. But you can't tell me if Jeter, Posada and Bernie came up through, let's say Kansas City's farm system, that their team could afford to keep one of them, never mind all of them plus multi-millions on a pitching staff.

As a transplanted northerner in the south, many times people refer to me as a "Yankee". I love baseball... been a Tom Seaver fan since I was a little boy, so I like NY, too. But being called a "Yankee" is a complete insult.

Bottom line is, if you're a Yankee fan, fine and dandy. But rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for Donald Trump to win the lottery after he buys up most of the tickets. What's the point?

I'd love to see the Cubs vs. Red Sox in the Series. But my gut says we'll be lucky to see one or the other make it there.

Guyute

10-08-2003, 08:53 AM

ease up HockeyPat. we try and tread lightly on fan criticisms here. saying you hate yankee fans when it was pretty obvious that JD is one.... is pretty much trolling in my book.

HockeyPat

10-09-2003, 04:43 PM

Someone asked, I answered.

opuntia

10-11-2003, 08:48 PM

Okay, my favorite teams are the Indians and whoever's playing the Yankees, but I will have to exclude the Red Sox from now on. I am utterly appalled at what Pedro Martinez did in the game today. First of all, he was the one who started the beaning (hitting Garcia). Second, Clemens' pitch was nowhere near Ramirez's head - it was high, but barely inside - the catcher put his hand straight up to catch it. Third, I don't care what he says to you, you do not grab a 72-year-old man by the head and throw him to the ground. I don't know how they can justify allowing Martinez to stay in the game.

If you didn't see it, here's the story
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2003/news/story?id=1635910

SouthernHockeyChick

10-12-2003, 12:05 AM

Totally didn't see this incident. But, I'm looking for the video now because I just read a story that said that Zimmer threw a punch.

OK, just saw it. Agree completely that the pitch was NOT even REMOTELY at his head. Total over-reaction. But, sorry, the little 72 year old was going for Martinez like he was going to strangle him. Zimmer was going for his head. Don't pick a fight you can't finish.

Cool Hand Luke

10-12-2003, 12:35 AM

I've been a Yankee fan since birth. We had a few lean years back in the 80's when poor Don Mattingly never won a world series, but obviously they have atoned for their mistakes since back then. Joe Torre is a class individual, I don't understand anyone hating him, who really knows anything about him. I can understand the hatred of the organization, the fans, and team itself. It stems from jealousy. :smoke:

Concerning the incident tonight, Don Zimmer has always been a hothead but then so has Martinez. If Martinez was afraid that a 72 year old guy was going to hurt him, I guess he had the right to do what he did, but Martinez did START all the fuss with the first throw behind the back of Garcia. One of these days, Martinez will get his. Too bad Boulerice wasn't suited up for the Yanks tonight. *L*

*raises a glass to JD and says " GO YANKEES!*

Jillsdad

10-12-2003, 08:36 PM

OK, now that I have sobered up and can give my take on yesterday's happenings with some sense of normalcy I shall.

First and foremost, Pedro Martinez started all of the crap in the game. He got hit hard in the 4th inning and instead of bearing down and making better pitches, he threw at a guy's head. That is a number one no-no. Ask Roger Clemens. He still gets blasted for the Piazza incident. Then after throwing at Garcia's head he points to his head and tells whichever Yankee he was yelling at (maybe Posada) that he will throw at his head too. Why was Martinez not ejected for threatening to throw at someone's head?

Secondly, Manny Ramirez is a little *****. First he opts out of series with the Yankees because his throat hurts and then is seen in a bar with Enrique Wilson of the Yankees later the same night. Then last night he freaks out when Clemens throws a pitch high in the strike zone that was not even close to his head. Like I said Ramirez is a little *****.

Last but not least, while Zimmer was wrong to come out of the dugout and charge after Martinez, I ask any poster in here to think about it this way. It would be like your grandfather coming after you for some reason, would you throw him to the ground? I doubt it.

I haven't seen the bullpen incident so I will not comment on that.

nccanes

10-12-2003, 09:01 PM

Last but not least, while Zimmer was wrong to come out of the dugout and charge after Martinez, I ask any poster in here to think about it this way. It would be like your grandfather coming after you for some reason, would you throw him to the ground? I doubt it.

Totally agree. He pushed the guy down - by the head. He didn't try to deflect or push him backwards, he grabbed his head, stepped aside and pushed him down. I realize that Zimmer was "going for him", but if a professional athlete can't defend himself w/o pushing a 70 year old down by the head.....

Sealed the deal for me - I'm for the Cubbies all the way. Never been an American League kinda gal anyway. :smoke:

SouthernHockeyChick

10-12-2003, 10:07 PM

He didn't try to deflect or push him backwards, he grabbed his head, stepped aside and pushed him down.

That's where I disagree. I think he was just trying to deflect him but since Zimmer was hurtling at him like a madman it happened the way it did. Was he over-heated and perhaps over-zealous in his defense of himself? I'm sure. But I don't think he was intentionally trying to push the guy down. I think he was instinctually trying to defend himself. I don't care who's hurtling at me like that....I think my arms would be up to keep the person off of me. Just my opinion.

And I'm certainly not trying to defend Martinez. He acted like a complete ass. But did you guys see Zimmer? So did he. You can't act like a jerk and then be excused because you're just a "little old man" IMO. He's got to be held responsible for his actions as well. He was just as inflammatory about starting the whole thing as Martinez from what I saw. They all acted like school children who needed a spanking.

Of course, obviously, Martinez is way more at fault for having beaned the guy to begin with like a 4 year old. But Zimmer isn't some kind of faultless saint in this situation, IMO.

Also, can someone explain to me the scene in the bullpen that looked like the Yankees relief pitchers were mauling some groundskeeper? What was up with that? :crazy:

Jillsdad

10-12-2003, 10:11 PM

SouthernHockeyChick

10-12-2003, 10:14 PM

Don't know if you have seen it Angie but Zimmer was at a news conference this evening where he very emotionally apologized for the incident and his part in it. Where is Martinez? No where to be found.

Nope, hadn't seen that. Good for Zimmer. Very respectable of him. At least he's adult enough to admit his mistakes. I'd like to think Martinez would do the same but (other than hockey players) I don't tend to expect too much in the way of respectability from pro athletes.

Thanks for the info.

nccanes

10-13-2003, 07:31 AM

I happened to catch part of the rerun of the Sports Reporters on ESPN last night (up way too late), and they had the same basic discussion that we've had here on all points (Martinez hitting the batter, and then indicating that he'd do it again, what he could have done with Zimmer, or that he had no time to think and was only reacting).

Anyway, the point that baseball once again shot itself in the foot was really the best one. The team matchup that everyone wanted to see, the greatest pitching duel you could anticipate and it ends up an ugly, ugly mess. :sick:

Mookie

10-13-2003, 10:20 AM

The hitters of today are too vain. In the old days of baseball, if someone hit a pitcher pretty good the next hitter or two knew to be aware of a "Frustration" pitch. He'd take it and the game would go on. Today all the hitters take exception if they can't dig in. They are imature and over-pampered.

Pedro and Rocket are in the exact same boat whether you like it or not. Pedro has a worse rep than Rocket, but there's no difference. When Roger pitched for Toronto and hit a couple Yankees. Joe Torre thought he was a dirt bag and should have been thrown out of the league. Now he sings a different tune. It's all your perspective. What's overlooked in the Piazza-Clemens incident is Derek Bell and Eguardo Alfozo both had to hit the deck before Piazza got beaned. Roger was head hunting and never apologized for it. Don't expect one from Pedro either. It's part of the game, intimidation, just like putting a Jesse out on the ice. The good true professionals will know it, accept it and get on with the game.

I wouldn't throw my grandfather to the ground, but if some other 300 pound heap of blubber threw himself at my thin frail body, heck yeah, I'd defend myself. Zim apologized. Good for him, good move. Pedro didn't apologize... for what? he didn't need to. Clemens never apologized for hitting anyone. Neither did the great Bob Gibson, and you don't see the older players who faced him walk around bad mouthing him. If anything they speak of Gibson with respect. They weren't the babies that the hitters of today are. If anyone should apologize, it should be the hitters of today who think they are above the game and take exception to a pitcher doing his job. Do we all take exception to Jesse the Bull?

nccanes

10-13-2003, 10:33 AM

I don't disagree with you Mookie, but throwing at the head (or threatening to) should never be accepted at "part of the game".

The other point the reporters talked about is that the pitchers don't have the accountability because they never have to go to the plate themselves in the AL. Just another reason why I like the NL better.

opuntia

10-13-2003, 12:11 PM

Also, can someone explain to me the scene in the bullpen that looked like the Yankees relief pitchers were mauling some groundskeeper? What was up with that? :crazy:

From what I heard, the stadium employee jumped the Yankees' reliever in the bullpen. The cops, who I thought were supposed to be there to keep people away from the players, stood there and let it happen, then claimed that the pitcher said something that incited the assault. That may be to cover their butts; they have been acting like Red Sox fans who just happen to be wearing uniforms. And in any case, saying something and hitting someone are very different things. :eek2:

Jillsdad

10-13-2003, 01:59 PM

Mookie, I have a couple of points. I dare say that if Bob Gibson was getting hit hard as Pedro was the other nite he would not have thrown at someones head. The problem with Pedro, is that this nis his modus operandi whenever he gets hit hard. It has happened to the Blue Jays, the Orioles and the Rangers just to name a few. It is not just against the Yankees that this happens. As far as where Pedro really lost it was when he told one of the Yankees(maybe Posada) that he would throw at his head also. I don't believe I have ever heard of Bob Gibson doing that nor have I ever seen Roger Clemens do that. I make no apologies for what Roger did to Piazza, it was wrong and he should have been vilified like he was, but do not defend Pedro as saying there was nothing wrong with what he did.

secondly, if there was a 300 lb heap of blubber who was 72 YEARS OLD that threw himself at you, I hop eyou would have the common sense and decency to just avoid him and not grab him by the skull(whch has a metal plate in it frm 2 beanball incidences in the 50's) and sling him to the ground. Zimmer was wrong to charge Pedro and he apologized for it. Now lets see if Pedro is a man.(I doubt it because Grady Bubba Gump Little has never held his nor manny's feet to the fire for anything else so why start now.)

Mookie

10-13-2003, 02:57 PM

There have been some power pitchers throughout the years that have thrown high and tight pitches. It's called "Chin Music". I'm not saying that we all have to like it or not, but either way it is a part of the game.

I'm not condoning trash talk either. I actually hate it myself and sometimes would like to see players ejected from games for it. It's a part of all sports and its up to the officials to deal with it. In playoff games, they tend to let players get away with a little more than usual. Pedro is a hot head and doesn't know when to shut up. But you don't see a referee blow a whistle because Reggie Miller says "Hey Jordan, I'm gonna foul you on your next lay-up!" (putting it mildly).

I was just very happy to see that Pedro didn't put a stiff knee out, or apply a drop kick like he might have done if another player had dove at him head first like that. Maybe Nelson and Garcia should have done their tap dancing on Pedro instead of a groundskeeper, then they wouldn't be threatened with assault charges(?). I'm being factitious, of course. I just dread thinking what might have happened. :crazy:

Hopefully the storyline will turn back to baseball for the rest of the series. I think baseball fans everywhere are ashamed of what happened because it was ugly no matter how you slice it. Baseball is my favorite sport (but I love hockey a real close second!) and I hate to see games come down to ugliness. :cry:

nccanes

10-13-2003, 03:08 PM

Also, can someone explain to me the scene in the bullpen that looked like the Yankees relief pitchers were mauling some groundskeeper? What was up with that? :crazy:

From what I heard, the stadium employee jumped the Yankees' reliever in the bullpen. The cops, who I thought were supposed to be there to keep people away from the players, stood there and let it happen, then claimed that the pitcher said something that incited the assault.

I thought that the groundskeeper/stadium employee that was working in the Yankees bullpen started to twirl a towel to encourage the fans. The Yankee players (understandably) took issue with that in their own bullpen. I think there were some words exchanged and then the Yankee player(s) went after him (or maybe it was mutual).

I don't know that little dude's job is/was, but I'd bet it wasn't getting the crowd fired up while sitting in the Yanks bullpen, lol.

SouthernHockeyChick

10-14-2003, 12:04 AM

That's how I had heard it, Eileen. But, I don't think the 5 Yankees pitchers needed to maul the guy for swinging a towel on their "turf" either. :roll:

Buncha freakin' morons all the way around. I'm glad hockey is my favorite sport.

Shell

10-17-2003, 02:59 PM

Did you guys see that the New York Post had a page in todays paper about the Yankee's loss last night?? lol D'OH!

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art3/postcurse1.gif

Shell

10-21-2003, 10:57 PM

Police Seek Court Date on Baseball Fight
Tue Oct 21, 8:20 AM ET

BOSTON (Reuters) - Boston police will go to court on Tuesday to seek a date for a hearing on whether they have enough evidence to charge two New York Yankees players with assaulting a Red Sox employee during a recent playoff game.

The hearing next month would rule on whether Yankees relief pitcher Jeff Nelson and outfielder Karim Garcia can be charged after a brawl with a groundskeeper at Fenway Park during an American League Championship Series baseball game on Oct. 11.

"(The police) have done a thorough investigation to get the clearest picture possible of what happened that day," said David Procopio, a spokesman for the Suffolk County district attorney, said on Monday.

"We believe there is enough evidence that a court should hear it," he said.

No charges will come out of Tuesday's court appearance.

If the court eventually rules there is probable cause, both Yankees players could face assault and battery charges.

The fight between the Yankees and the groundskeeper, who was cheering for Boston in the closing stages of the game, was captured by television cameras.

Boston police declined to comment on the details of their investigation.

The Yankees could not immediately be reached for comment. They defeated the Red Sox four games to three in the series and are playing the National League champion Florida Marlins in the World Series (news - web sites).