View Full Version : The Rangers/Isles playoff spot
nccanes
03-30-2003, 03:08 PM
Can you imagine this coming down to the Canes/Isles game on 4/6? Can you imagine the Canes beating the Isles to send the Rangers to the playoffs?
In any event. Tuesday's game will be a dandy between the Isles/Rangers. The Devils are beating the Isles 4-zip in the 3rd.
The Islanders need a point Sunday at New Jersey to set up the opportunity to clinch a playoff spot when the Rangers come Tuesday to Nassau Coliseum. The Isles' lead over the Rangers has been trimmed to four points, and after Sunday both teams will have four games left. The Rangers hold the tiebreaker and host Atlanta on Monday.
nccanes
03-30-2003, 03:08 PM
Can you imagine this coming down to the Canes/Isles game on 4/6? Can you imagine the Canes beating the Isles to send the Rangers to the playoffs?
In any event. Tuesday's game will be a dandy between the Isles/Rangers. The Devils are beating the Isles 4-zip in the 3rd.
The Islanders need a point Sunday at New Jersey to set up the opportunity to clinch a playoff spot when the Rangers come Tuesday to Nassau Coliseum. The Isles' lead over the Rangers has been trimmed to four points, and after Sunday both teams will have four games left. The Rangers hold the tiebreaker and host Atlanta on Monday.
talkingcanes
03-30-2003, 03:29 PM
well, NJ shut out NYI 6-0. Elias scored 4 goals and Brodeur got his 9th shutout and 40th win. That team is hitting on all cylinders at this point.
it'll be interesting on Sunday if NYI are still in a playoff race.
talkingcanes
03-30-2003, 03:29 PM
well, NJ shut out NYI 6-0. Elias scored 4 goals and Brodeur got his 9th shutout and 40th win. That team is hitting on all cylinders at this point.
it'll be interesting on Sunday if NYI are still in a playoff race.
folgersnyourcup
03-31-2003, 08:23 AM
If the Rangers beat Atlanta tonight and then the Islanders, it very well may come down to our final game to determine the 8th playoff spot in the East! Phooey on ESPN for booting that game off of their broadcast schedule! Perhaps they'll come crawling back on their hands and knees?
Nah.
folgersnyourcup
03-31-2003, 08:23 AM
If the Rangers beat Atlanta tonight and then the Islanders, it very well may come down to our final game to determine the 8th playoff spot in the East! Phooey on ESPN for booting that game off of their broadcast schedule! Perhaps they'll come crawling back on their hands and knees?
Nah.
Guyute
03-31-2003, 09:03 AM
tomorrow night the Isles and Blueshirts meet on the Island. should be interesting.
Guyute
03-31-2003, 09:03 AM
tomorrow night the Isles and Blueshirts meet on the Island. should be interesting.
tommy
03-31-2003, 09:30 AM
Phooey on ESPN for booting that game off of their broadcast schedule! Perhaps they'll come crawling back on their hands and knees?
Then we should refuse to let them in, just to spite everyone else. :D
tommy
03-31-2003, 09:30 AM
Phooey on ESPN for booting that game off of their broadcast schedule! Perhaps they'll come crawling back on their hands and knees?
Then we should refuse to let them in, just to spite everyone else. :D
I don't understand how the Rangers hold the tiebreaker... I mean, they do if the records are exactly the same, for sure, because the Rangers hold the edge in the series between the two. But if both teams go 2-2-0, then the records will be 34-34-10-2 (NYI) and 34-34-9-3 (NYR). Wouldn't the extra OTL knock out the Rangers before going to a tiebreaker?
I don't understand how the Rangers hold the tiebreaker... I mean, they do if the records are exactly the same, for sure, because the Rangers hold the edge in the series between the two. But if both teams go 2-2-0, then the records will be 34-34-10-2 (NYI) and 34-34-9-3 (NYR). Wouldn't the extra OTL knock out the Rangers before going to a tiebreaker?
SouthernHockeyChick
03-31-2003, 12:03 PM
Here's the tie-breaker rules:
Playoff Tie-Breaking Formula
At the conclusion of the regular season, the standing of the teams in each Conference shall be determined in accordance with the following priorities in the order listed:
a) First place in each of the three Divisions seeded 1, 2 and 3.
b) The higher number of points earned by the Club.
c) The greater number of games won by the Club.
d) The higher number of points earned in games against each other among two or more Clubs having equal standing under priorities (b) and (c).
NOTE: For the purpose of determining standing under priority (d) for two or more Clubs that have not played an even number of games with one or more of the other tied Clubs, the first game played in the city that has the extra game (the "odd" game) shall not be included. When more than two Clubs are tied, the percentage of available points earned in games among each other (and not including any "odd games") shall be used to determine the standing.
e) The greater positive differential between goals scored for and against by Clubs having equal standing under priority (d).
Doesn't look like OTLs even come into the equation.
SouthernHockeyChick
03-31-2003, 12:03 PM
Here's the tie-breaker rules:
Playoff Tie-Breaking Formula
At the conclusion of the regular season, the standing of the teams in each Conference shall be determined in accordance with the following priorities in the order listed:
a) First place in each of the three Divisions seeded 1, 2 and 3.
b) The higher number of points earned by the Club.
c) The greater number of games won by the Club.
d) The higher number of points earned in games against each other among two or more Clubs having equal standing under priorities (b) and (c).
NOTE: For the purpose of determining standing under priority (d) for two or more Clubs that have not played an even number of games with one or more of the other tied Clubs, the first game played in the city that has the extra game (the "odd" game) shall not be included. When more than two Clubs are tied, the percentage of available points earned in games among each other (and not including any "odd games") shall be used to determine the standing.
e) The greater positive differential between goals scored for and against by Clubs having equal standing under priority (d).
Doesn't look like OTLs even come into the equation.
Hmm... too bad it isn't the greater number of games LOST by a club. I guess it didn't matter before the introduction of OTL, since a team with more losses would automatically have fewer wins and/or more ties, and this scenario wouldn't have been possible.
Hmm... too bad it isn't the greater number of games LOST by a club. I guess it didn't matter before the introduction of OTL, since a team with more losses would automatically have fewer wins and/or more ties, and this scenario wouldn't have been possible.
nccanes
03-31-2003, 10:32 PM
The Rangers lost in OT to the Thrashers (who've had a nice run lately). They are 3 points behind the Islanders going into the head-to-head game tomorrow.
nccanes
03-31-2003, 10:32 PM
The Rangers lost in OT to the Thrashers (who've had a nice run lately). They are 3 points behind the Islanders going into the head-to-head game tomorrow.
folgersnyourcup
03-31-2003, 10:34 PM
Very untimely penalty by Lindross led to that OT loss.... they've got quite a bit of ground to cover now. And if they lose to the Islanders tomorrow their season is over.
folgersnyourcup
03-31-2003, 10:34 PM
Very untimely penalty by Lindross led to that OT loss.... they've got quite a bit of ground to cover now. And if they lose to the Islanders tomorrow their season is over.
nccanes
03-31-2003, 10:37 PM
Very untimely penalty by Lindross led to that OT loss.... they've got quite a bit of ground to cover now. And if they lose to the Islanders tomorrow their season is over.
Thanks Folg. I guess I was too brain dead to do the math to figure that out! If the Isles win, they are up by 5 points. Insurmountable with only 2 games remaining for the Rangers, right?
nccanes
03-31-2003, 10:37 PM
Very untimely penalty by Lindross led to that OT loss.... they've got quite a bit of ground to cover now. And if they lose to the Islanders tomorrow their season is over.
Thanks Folg. I guess I was too brain dead to do the math to figure that out! If the Isles win, they are up by 5 points. Insurmountable with only 2 games remaining for the Rangers, right?
Jillsdad
04-01-2003, 03:56 PM
Ok here I go. Marc Savard should get two $1000 fines for his actions in last night's game. First, his dive towards the end of the third when Leetch touched him was almost as blatant as Hecht's dive when Hilly touched him Saturday night. Secondly, Lindros did not touch Savard with his body or his stick. I saw a replay on CBS 2 out of NYC that had a different angle from the MSG feed and as Savard turtled when he thought he was going to be hit by Lindros his own stick smacked him in the helmet and that is what the ref called. Lindros did not touch him. It is nice to know that the refs do nout suck in just our games but in Ranger games as well. I have seen at least 10 penalties called on Lindros this year that were as ludicrous as anything I have seen all year.
Jillsdad
04-01-2003, 03:56 PM
Ok here I go. Marc Savard should get two $1000 fines for his actions in last night's game. First, his dive towards the end of the third when Leetch touched him was almost as blatant as Hecht's dive when Hilly touched him Saturday night. Secondly, Lindros did not touch Savard with his body or his stick. I saw a replay on CBS 2 out of NYC that had a different angle from the MSG feed and as Savard turtled when he thought he was going to be hit by Lindros his own stick smacked him in the helmet and that is what the ref called. Lindros did not touch him. It is nice to know that the refs do nout suck in just our games but in Ranger games as well. I have seen at least 10 penalties called on Lindros this year that were as ludicrous as anything I have seen all year.
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 04:55 PM
Wow, I didn't realize it was a controversial call. I was just reading the box score during the OT and saw when Lindross got called for the penalty. Thanks for the post!
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 04:55 PM
Wow, I didn't realize it was a controversial call. I was just reading the box score during the OT and saw when Lindross got called for the penalty. Thanks for the post!
talkingcanes
04-01-2003, 06:44 PM
The Rangers and the Isles drop the puck at 7:00 tonight. Bet that won't be much of a bruiser of a game :beatup:
talkingcanes
04-01-2003, 06:44 PM
The Rangers and the Isles drop the puck at 7:00 tonight. Bet that won't be much of a bruiser of a game :beatup:
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 07:34 PM
I can't believe it's not being televised for those of us who don't have Center Ice! You would think ESPN would be all over stuff like this....ah well. I guess they've got some basketball game or something on. :)
I'll be checking the box score ocasionally. I'm expecting the game to develop into a slugfest if the score begins to get somewhat lopsided.
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 07:34 PM
I can't believe it's not being televised for those of us who don't have Center Ice! You would think ESPN would be all over stuff like this....ah well. I guess they've got some basketball game or something on. :)
I'll be checking the box score ocasionally. I'm expecting the game to develop into a slugfest if the score begins to get somewhat lopsided.
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 07:42 PM
MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Asham scores a powerplay goal with an assist by Yashin!!!!!
Wow, what a stressful situation for the Rangers right now. If they don't score their season is over!
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 07:42 PM
MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Asham scores a powerplay goal with an assist by Yashin!!!!!
Wow, what a stressful situation for the Rangers right now. If they don't score their season is over!
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 08:43 PM
Uh oh, two periods down, Rangers still down 1-0, and it seems that emotions are beginning to boil over..... It's put up or shut up time for the Rangers!
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 08:43 PM
Uh oh, two periods down, Rangers still down 1-0, and it seems that emotions are beginning to boil over..... It's put up or shut up time for the Rangers!
Canesluver
04-01-2003, 08:53 PM
It's 2-zip, now folks!!!! :D
Edited to add: Another PP goal, too!
Canesluver
04-01-2003, 08:53 PM
It's 2-zip, now folks!!!! :D
Edited to add: Another PP goal, too!
Stormbringer
04-01-2003, 09:03 PM
Go Isles go! Keep them razzin' frazzin' Ranjerks out of the playoffs!
Stormbringer
04-01-2003, 09:03 PM
Go Isles go! Keep them razzin' frazzin' Ranjerks out of the playoffs!
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 09:08 PM
Naughty naughty Kovalev. Tripping leads to a Yashin powerplay goal putting the Islanders up by two!
But Leetch (who I've seen in recent articles described as the only Ranger that deserves to make the playoffs) responds with a goal of his own making it 2-1. The Rangers still need two more goals in regulation at this moment to ensure the Islanders get no points out of this. And I don't see that happening. But if the Rangers win on OT they've still got a chance to make the playoffs though much, much slimmer than if they won in regulation.
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 09:08 PM
Naughty naughty Kovalev. Tripping leads to a Yashin powerplay goal putting the Islanders up by two!
But Leetch (who I've seen in recent articles described as the only Ranger that deserves to make the playoffs) responds with a goal of his own making it 2-1. The Rangers still need two more goals in regulation at this moment to ensure the Islanders get no points out of this. And I don't see that happening. But if the Rangers win on OT they've still got a chance to make the playoffs though much, much slimmer than if they won in regulation.
MeanGene
04-01-2003, 09:22 PM
2-2 with 3:00 to play in the game.
The Islanders had a chance to put it away, but they were robbed on a shot.
MeanGene
04-01-2003, 09:22 PM
2-2 with 3:00 to play in the game.
The Islanders had a chance to put it away, but they were robbed on a shot.
MeanGene
04-01-2003, 09:22 PM
Ranger going on a PP with 1:22 to play in the game.
MeanGene
04-01-2003, 09:22 PM
Ranger going on a PP with 1:22 to play in the game.
Canesluver
04-01-2003, 09:24 PM
Rangers have dominated the 3rd period.
Crap! Rangers get a PP with less than 2 minutes in regulation!!
Canesluver
04-01-2003, 09:24 PM
Rangers have dominated the 3rd period.
Crap! Rangers get a PP with less than 2 minutes in regulation!!
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 09:24 PM
Wow.....well this is their golden opportunity!
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 09:24 PM
Wow.....well this is their golden opportunity!
MeanGene
04-01-2003, 09:26 PM
Going to overtime. The Rangers have about a 35 second PP left.
MeanGene
04-01-2003, 09:26 PM
Going to overtime. The Rangers have about a 35 second PP left.
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 10:18 PM
Good grief. 2-2 tie. Talk about living on the edge..... The Rangers STILL are not out of it! It may very well come down to Sunday's game ladies and gents!
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 10:18 PM
Good grief. 2-2 tie. Talk about living on the edge..... The Rangers STILL are not out of it! It may very well come down to Sunday's game ladies and gents!
nccanes
04-01-2003, 10:25 PM
Good grief. 2-2 tie. Talk about living on the edge..... The Rangers STILL are not out of it! It may very well come down to Sunday's game ladies and gents!
But the Isles have 3 games left and the Rangers only 2 right? So, is the magic number 1 win for the Isles?
nccanes
04-01-2003, 10:25 PM
Good grief. 2-2 tie. Talk about living on the edge..... The Rangers STILL are not out of it! It may very well come down to Sunday's game ladies and gents!
But the Isles have 3 games left and the Rangers only 2 right? So, is the magic number 1 win for the Isles?
Stormbringer
04-01-2003, 10:26 PM
I believe that was what ESPN-News was mentioning earlier Eileen, if I heard them correctly...
Stormbringer
04-01-2003, 10:26 PM
I believe that was what ESPN-News was mentioning earlier Eileen, if I heard them correctly...
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 10:32 PM
That's right. If the Islanders get two points in any of their remaining games it is over. However, they are playing Detroit (who should take the game easily), Atlanta, (who will be tough after showing that they are enjoying this spoiler role after taking down the Rangers just last night) and the good ol' Canes. The Rangers on the other hand are taking on New Jersey and Montreal. If the Rangers manage to get two points in the standings out of both of those games while the Islanders lose both (or tie or get an OT loss in one, lose the other) it would put them in a must-win situation against who else but the good ol' Canes!
folgersnyourcup
04-01-2003, 10:32 PM
That's right. If the Islanders get two points in any of their remaining games it is over. However, they are playing Detroit (who should take the game easily), Atlanta, (who will be tough after showing that they are enjoying this spoiler role after taking down the Rangers just last night) and the good ol' Canes. The Rangers on the other hand are taking on New Jersey and Montreal. If the Rangers manage to get two points in the standings out of both of those games while the Islanders lose both (or tie or get an OT loss in one, lose the other) it would put them in a must-win situation against who else but the good ol' Canes!
Jeff O Rocks
04-01-2003, 10:38 PM
That's right. If the Islanders get two points in any of their remaining games it is over. However, they are playing Detroit (who should take the game easily), Atlanta, (who will be tough after showing that they are enjoying this spoiler role after taking down the Rangers just last night) and the good ol' Canes. The Rangers on the other hand are taking on New Jersey and Montreal. If the Rangers manage to get two points in the standings out of both of those games while the Islanders lose both (or tie or get an OT loss in one, lose the other) it would put them in a must-win situation against who else but the good ol' Canes!
Canes = spoiler :evil:
Jeff O Rocks
04-01-2003, 10:38 PM
That's right. If the Islanders get two points in any of their remaining games it is over. However, they are playing Detroit (who should take the game easily), Atlanta, (who will be tough after showing that they are enjoying this spoiler role after taking down the Rangers just last night) and the good ol' Canes. The Rangers on the other hand are taking on New Jersey and Montreal. If the Rangers manage to get two points in the standings out of both of those games while the Islanders lose both (or tie or get an OT loss in one, lose the other) it would put them in a must-win situation against who else but the good ol' Canes!
Canes = spoiler :evil:
nccanes
04-01-2003, 10:45 PM
Canes = spoiler :evil:
But to send the Rangers to the playoffs? :crazy:
nccanes
04-01-2003, 10:45 PM
Canes = spoiler :evil:
But to send the Rangers to the playoffs? :crazy:
Jeff O Rocks
04-01-2003, 10:49 PM
Canes = spoiler :evil:
But to send the Rangers to the playoffs? :crazy:
That is tough...but we all want the guys to end with a win..hopefully the Islanders will control their own destiny!! :roll:
Jeff O Rocks
04-01-2003, 10:49 PM
Canes = spoiler :evil:
But to send the Rangers to the playoffs? :crazy:
That is tough...but we all want the guys to end with a win..hopefully the Islanders will control their own destiny!! :roll:
Stormbringer
04-01-2003, 10:51 PM
Canes = spoiler :evil:
But to send the Rangers to the playoffs? :crazy:
At this point, I would much like the ones I protect to win, even if it means sending one of my top five most hated teams into the playoffs...that's a small price to pay for ending the season on a somewhat high note.
Stormbringer
04-01-2003, 10:51 PM
Canes = spoiler :evil:
But to send the Rangers to the playoffs? :crazy:
At this point, I would much like the ones I protect to win, even if it means sending one of my top five most hated teams into the playoffs...that's a small price to pay for ending the season on a somewhat high note.
nccanes
04-01-2003, 10:57 PM
Canes = spoiler :evil:
But to send the Rangers to the playoffs? :crazy:
At this point, I would much like the ones I protect to win, even if it means sending one of my top five most hated teams into the playoffs...that's a small price to pay for ending the season on a somewhat high note.
I agree SB. I just hope to hell that the Isles have it clinched before they roll into town. I can live w/o being a spoiler this time! :smoke:
nccanes
04-01-2003, 10:57 PM
Canes = spoiler :evil:
But to send the Rangers to the playoffs? :crazy:
At this point, I would much like the ones I protect to win, even if it means sending one of my top five most hated teams into the playoffs...that's a small price to pay for ending the season on a somewhat high note.
I agree SB. I just hope to hell that the Isles have it clinched before they roll into town. I can live w/o being a spoiler this time! :smoke:
nccanes
04-04-2003, 11:28 PM
Ha!
The TSN article Headline is "MONEY PIT"
Devils end Rangers' playoff hopes
Sports Ticker
4/4/2003
NEW YORK (Ticker) -- The New York Rangers' season is over. The New Jersey Devils' has just begun.
While knocking the rival Rangers out of playoff contention, New Jersey clinched the Atlantic Division title as defenseman Scott Niedermayer and Jeff Friesen scored second-period goals en route to a 2-1 victory.
Martin Brodeur made 18 saves for the Devils, who earned their fifth division title in seven years and clinched the second seed in the Eastern Conference. They will face Boston or the New York Islanders in the first round of the playoffs.
With New Jersey's victory, the Islanders clinched a postseason berth.
Despite having the highest payroll in the NHL, the Rangers failed to make the playoffs for a franchise-record sixth consecutive year. They entered the night three points behind the Islanders for the eighth and final spot in the East.
It was a miserable season for the Rangers, whose final home game was a microcosm of the year. They took a costly penalty leading to the tying goal, were outshot 41-19 and got booed throughout.
nccanes
04-04-2003, 11:28 PM
Ha!
The TSN article Headline is "MONEY PIT"
Devils end Rangers' playoff hopes
Sports Ticker
4/4/2003
NEW YORK (Ticker) -- The New York Rangers' season is over. The New Jersey Devils' has just begun.
While knocking the rival Rangers out of playoff contention, New Jersey clinched the Atlantic Division title as defenseman Scott Niedermayer and Jeff Friesen scored second-period goals en route to a 2-1 victory.
Martin Brodeur made 18 saves for the Devils, who earned their fifth division title in seven years and clinched the second seed in the Eastern Conference. They will face Boston or the New York Islanders in the first round of the playoffs.
With New Jersey's victory, the Islanders clinched a postseason berth.
Despite having the highest payroll in the NHL, the Rangers failed to make the playoffs for a franchise-record sixth consecutive year. They entered the night three points behind the Islanders for the eighth and final spot in the East.
It was a miserable season for the Rangers, whose final home game was a microcosm of the year. They took a costly penalty leading to the tying goal, were outshot 41-19 and got booed throughout.
nccanes
04-04-2003, 11:28 PM
Ha!
The TSN article Headline is "MONEY PIT"
Devils end Rangers' playoff hopes
Sports Ticker
4/4/2003
NEW YORK (Ticker) -- The New York Rangers' season is over. The New Jersey Devils' has just begun.
While knocking the rival Rangers out of playoff contention, New Jersey clinched the Atlantic Division title as defenseman Scott Niedermayer and Jeff Friesen scored second-period goals en route to a 2-1 victory.
Martin Brodeur made 18 saves for the Devils, who earned their fifth division title in seven years and clinched the second seed in the Eastern Conference. They will face Boston or the New York Islanders in the first round of the playoffs.
With New Jersey's victory, the Islanders clinched a postseason berth.
Despite having the highest payroll in the NHL, the Rangers failed to make the playoffs for a franchise-record sixth consecutive year. They entered the night three points behind the Islanders for the eighth and final spot in the East.
It was a miserable season for the Rangers, whose final home game was a microcosm of the year. They took a costly penalty leading to the tying goal, were outshot 41-19 and got booed throughout.
Turbulence
04-05-2003, 12:26 AM
Serves 'em right. You can't buy a championship (Well, you can ie. Yankees, Lakers, Red Wings, but who's counting?)
This is the second team to fail miserably with a sizeable payroll...remember the Redskins 2 years ago?
This team is proof that championships can be won without superstar players. It's all about team chemistry...
Spread the wealth, New York! :spin:
Turbulence
04-05-2003, 12:26 AM
Serves 'em right. You can't buy a championship (Well, you can ie. Yankees, Lakers, Red Wings, but who's counting?)
This is the second team to fail miserably with a sizeable payroll...remember the Redskins 2 years ago?
This team is proof that championships can be won without superstar players. It's all about team chemistry...
Spread the wealth, New York! :spin:
Turbulence
04-05-2003, 12:26 AM
Serves 'em right. You can't buy a championship (Well, you can ie. Yankees, Lakers, Red Wings, but who's counting?)
This is the second team to fail miserably with a sizeable payroll...remember the Redskins 2 years ago?
This team is proof that championships can be won without superstar players. It's all about team chemistry...
Spread the wealth, New York! :spin:
Shell
04-05-2003, 02:40 AM
I'm thrilled.. I definitely like the notion that you can't buy a stanley cup. To me, Islanders are one of the very few teams that I have no feeling towards either way.
Shell
04-05-2003, 02:40 AM
I'm thrilled.. I definitely like the notion that you can't buy a stanley cup. To me, Islanders are one of the very few teams that I have no feeling towards either way.
Shell
04-05-2003, 02:40 AM
I'm thrilled.. I definitely like the notion that you can't buy a stanley cup. To me, Islanders are one of the very few teams that I have no feeling towards either way.
I'm thrilled.. I definitely like the notion that you can't buy a stanley cup. To me, Islanders are one of the very few teams that I have no feeling towards either way.
I am right there with you both points. :spin:
I'm thrilled.. I definitely like the notion that you can't buy a stanley cup. To me, Islanders are one of the very few teams that I have no feeling towards either way.
I am right there with you both points. :spin:
I'm thrilled.. I definitely like the notion that you can't buy a stanley cup. To me, Islanders are one of the very few teams that I have no feeling towards either way.
I am right there with you both points. :spin:
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