Lavi vs. Mo Statistically

[stewart123]

As of 12/30/2003...

Laviolette Maurice

Games 6 30

Record 4-2-0-0 8-12-8-2
Home Record 3-1-0-0 5-3-5-1
Road Record 1-1-0-0 3-9-3-1

Ave Goals For 1.66 1.86
Ave Goals Against 1.66 2.37

Power Play % 8.0% 11.4%
Penalty Kill % 85.8% 84.5%

Ave Shots For 27.7 31.1
Ave Shots Against 24.8 26.5

Shoot % For 5.9% 6.1%
Shoot % Against 6.7% 8.9%

Ave Penalty Mins 10.5 13.8


Very small sample size for Laviolette, of course.

So far, the improvement in record is due to defensive performance, as the team's scoring and power play are underperforming statistically. It will also be interesting to see how the team handles more road games, as so many of Lavi's first games are at home, where the Canes have played relatively well.

[cmw00]

Pretty hard to compare 6 games worth of data to 30 games worth. I think most of us expected the team to play harder for the new coach for a few games. Lets see what the numbers look like at the 30 game marke for Lav. If some of the guys keep up their play the way they have for most of these 6 games I think we'll be looking better at the end of Lavs 30 games.

[e2ipiand1]

I think that the most telling stat so far is the three fewer PIMs per game. Denying the other team a powerplay and a half per game can be huge. Especially in 2-1 games.

[AbNormal27]

I'm of the "be patient" mindset, but then again, I've been that way for a looooooong time now when it comes to this franchise. I agree with cmw00, I'm not passing judgement either way until we get a few more games under the belt.

Aaryn

[stewart123]

I think that the most telling stat so far is the three fewer PIMs per game. Denying the other team a powerplay and a half per game can be huge. Especially in 2-1 games.

Some of the difference relates to a couple games where we had massive amounts of penalty minutes.. 31 against Washington, and 50 against San Jose. The Canes have consistently been a more disciplined team than their opponents all year. (In the San Jose game, the Sharks had 87 minutes!)

[Flanman]

Only on stat in this small sample counts.

Lavy 6 games 4 wins =0.666 win%

Mo 30 games, 8 wins =0.266 win%

It's all abou winning in this league. Just win baby!

[Ashleygirl]

Pretty hard to compare 6 games worth of data to 30 games worth. I think most of us expected the team to play harder for the new coach for a few games. Lets see what the numbers look like at the 30 game marke for Lav. If some of the guys keep up their play the way they have for most of these 6 games I think we'll be looking better at the end of Lavs 30 games.

It's not so much how they are playing, but what they are starting to do that I like. No more dump/chase every other possession and our players are actually getting in front of the net! I hope the improvement continues, but I already like the direction the Canes are heading and it doesn't have to do with how hard they are working necessarly. I would expect them to work a little harder for a new coach, but when they can leave the old teachings behind and grab on to the new stuff I'll be happy!!

[guinevere]

It's not so much how they are playing, but what they are starting to do that I like. No more dump/chase every other possession and our players are actually getting in front of the net!

Bingo! Its fun for me to watch hockey again. Interesting, isn't it, that we actually have scoring chances and take shots on our penalty kills? After only 6 games, a difference can be seen in how they play.

[Staal-aholic]

like Lavi said, he hasn't accomplished anything yet, ask him about success in july

[Jeff O Rocks]

like Lavi said, he hasn't accomplished anything yet, ask him about success in july

And wouldn't it be great if he was sporting a brand new Stanley Cup ring on his finger while answering!! ;)

[ausoleil]

And wouldn't it be great if he was sporting a brand new Stanley Cup ring on his finger while answering!!

Me, I'd settle for an appearance in the semi-finals. We're not going to be a Cup-worthy team this year, not without getting that scoring average up quite a bit.

[Guyute]

we have the D to win a cup. there is NO doubt in my mind. but, hoping to score 2 goals doesn't cut it.

thanks for the stat comparison. It'll be very interesting to re-visit this at 30 games for an even barometer.

[MoBigRed]

I agree with you, guyute. Once the playoffs start up, the game tends to get more defensive - a lot of games decided by the hot goaltender, and very few blowouts (Cole-Theodore battles notwithstanding). I'm not saying the Canes are a SCF team, but they've always been pretty well-suited to the more defensive style of playoff hockey.

However, as you guys said, 1-2 goals a game is not going to cut it. But there's time to get the offensive wheels rolling.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

We're not going to be a Cup-worthy team this year, not without getting that scoring average up quite a bit.

The good news is we weren't a Cup-worthy team in 2001-2002 either. But we got awfully close!:D

I'm in no way expecting us to make a run deep into the playoffs. We may fall back down and keep stinking and end up at or near the bottom of the league again. It's probably as likely or more than a Cup run. But, you never know!! I sure do like the changes I'm seeing and I do still believe the goals will begin to come....soon.

A fresh face on this team is a great thing. :spin:

[stewart123]

Laviolette Maurice

Games 30 30

Record 10-15-4-1 8-12-8-2
Home Record 6-9-3-1 5-3-5-1
Road Record 4-6-1-0 3-9-3-1

Ave Goals For 2.00 1.86
Ave Goals Against 2.67 2.37

Power Play % 10.8% 11.4%
Penalty Kill % 77.5% 84.5%

Ave Shots For 26.9 31.1
Ave Shots Against 25.8 26.5

Shoot % For 7.4% 6.1%
Shoot % Against 10.3% 8.9%

Ave Penalty Mins 13.2 13.8

[Shell]

Thanks Stewart.. very interesting and certainly not how I thought they would look way back when.. hard to believe our power play has actually gotten worse!!

[murda338]

The whole team is worse, was Mo actually a better coach!

[talkingcanes]

the PK is worse too! it's going to take a while to get PL's system in place and for all of them to be comfortable with it. the PK was one of the things we had working pretty well, but it's really let us down recently. it will be better in the future. this team will rebound and when starting fresh out of camp after total immersion in PL's system, it will be great. I just have to believe that.......and I really do :beatup:

[SouthernHockeyChick]

So we have fewer shots against for more goals allowed?

We also have a higher shooting percentage for and more goals scored per game. The offense is improving. The D and goaltending are getting worse.

[murda338]

We're going to be kick ass when Brendl Williams and Staal have been around 2 years

[tommy]

Every day I just keep on hoping that indeed it's just getting worse so that it can get better.

[puckin_A]

We also have a higher shooting percentage for and more goals scored per game. The offense is improving. The D and goaltending are getting worse.

that's because Mo was a defensive coach and Lavi is an offensive coach.
Guess we can't have the best of both worlds.

As much as I love Willie, I wish we could of got rid of ANY OTHER dman
besides Markov. We need him!

[1Irbegirlforever]

All I know is that since Lavi came to be with us, I've really enjoyed the changes that I've noticed. No, we're not winning all the games and we're not where we need to be to be competitive, but I do see some positives! :)

[agentpreppie]

All I know is that since Lavi came to be with us, I've really enjoyed the changes that I've noticed. No, we're not winning all the games and we're not where we need to be to be competitive, but I do see some positives! :)

Exactly. With a few exceptions, the Canes are putting a better "product" on the ice. By that I mean that the games are more entertaining. Sure Mo had a few more wins but were they exciting wins? Not really. The past few games I've been to have been enjoyable in the sense that I really felt the Canes would have a chance to win because they are moving around more, not playing the dang dump 'n chase every shift like Mo would. They will still dump it in but they are carrying it in with more regularity which makes for more exciting hockey.

[nccanes]

I've decided to wait until next year to draw any real conclusions. Perhaps we've seen more exciting hockey (though I wasn't bored before), but the Canes have made some critical lapses or let downs or just haven't shown up for some games. I feel like the focus was better earlier in the season, but perhaps the aggressiveness and style was more conservative. Now it seems like the opposite.

In the end, the results have not begun to change. I can wait until next year to see how they do, but I'd like to see improvement between now and the end of the season to have some optimism about the future. I'd love to pass Atlanta and/or Florida in the SE to get some respect back.

[RIO]

At the very least, in spite of what the numbers may or may not indicate, I think PL has created an atmosphere that says "Win or have your manhood questioned" and that's something that's been lacking in the years under PM. The get-it-done-because-there's-no-excuse-not-to attitude. The Hurricanes are operating more like team now than a fraternal order, and that, in my mind, is a giant step forward.

[Guyute]

brilliantly said dear Rio. no, there's not much difference in numbers yet...

but there are a much bigger set of balls in the locker room now, which will make a huge difference once the players decide to get their shyt together.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Very interesting stats! I'm surprised about the fewer shots against average, and higher goals allowed. It has seemed as though Weekes has allowed more goals lately, but I assumed it was because our opened up defense was allowing more shots. Not true though. Maybe he is getting a bit tired. Anyone know how many games Storr played under Lavi versus Mo?

Also, I'm not very surprised about the penalty kill % slipping recently. Our two best PK men have been hurt, K Adams for a while now, and Brind'Amour for a few games. In the Washington game that KA got hurt, I think the Caps scored 3 times on their PP. Also. I wonder what the percentages were with Markov and post Markov. He was a good PK man himself. I miss Markov.

[nccanes]

So far the only balls I see (not literally) in the locker room are Laviolette's.

I'm waiting to see (not literally) someone else with some. :evil:

[Canesluver]

Edited: my comment really belonged in another thread, so just ignore this..... I'M INSANE!!!

[SouthernHockeyChick]

IMO, if you haven't seen any balls on the ice the past few games you haven't been watching very closely. How do I come out of the RBC feeling OK after an OTL or a T? Because I saw some of their heart back on the ice.

I figured Weekes stats would start to go down once Lavi's style was more fully implemented. Whether I was right or whether he is just tired is questionable right now. I too am surprised that we've allowed fewer shots against.

I also agree that the games have been more entertaining (I wasn't bored before either but I can tell the difference now). True, there have been times they didn't seem to show up but that happened just as much or more under Mo, IMO. Remember that horrible stretch of games in November? Ottawa and Buffalo maybe?

I personally don't see the point in making some decision on whether the change was a good thing or not, ever. The change was made, it's over and done with, what's the point of suddenly labelling it bad or good? Making comparisons between the two eras makes some sense but one day making some proclamation that it was a bad/good deal sorta seems pointless to me. JMO.

[tommy]

Weekes might just be the type of goalie who performs better facing more shots. I know there are goalies like that. Luongo said once that he'd rather face 40 shots than 15, and I can see where they come from in that regard. Who knows?

[nccanes]

IMO, if you haven't seen any balls on the ice the past few games you haven't been watching very closely. How do I come out of the RBC feeling OK after an OTL or a T? Because I saw some of their heart back on the ice.


I've been watching closely thanks, but I have my own opinion.

Two games doesn't a trend make, it never has this season. That is why I said I hope for improvement in the form of leaping over teams like Florida or Atlanta, but mostly looking forward to next season to see what this team is made of. All season long there have been improvements or results in fits and starts. There has been no trend that's lasted more than a brief few days.

I don't think anyone is discussing whether or not the change was good/bad, just what signs we've seen about how the team is performing. It's been 1 week since PL himself called their efforts "appalling" - I think we've got a ways to go on the consistency/focus part.

The thread is aptly titled, so it can be avoided if anyone wishes.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I've been watching closely thanks, but I have my own opinion. Yep, that would be why I preceeded my statement with IMO And it's been 3 games, IMO, but point taken.


I don't think anyone is discussing whether or not the change was good/bad, just what signs we've seen about how the team is performing.

I agree but my point was that some people, you included, have stated they are waiting until next year to draw any "conclusions." What conclusion are you referring to if not whether the coaching change was a good move or a bad move? That's the conclusion I don't see the point of bothering with, IMO, (which means for me). Maybe I mis-understood.

Again though, since it may have been missed the first time, I'll end my post with JMO.

[nccanes]

Yep, that would be why I preceeded my statement with IMO And it's been 3 games, IMO, but point taken.


I'm fine with your opinion on the game, just not with your opinion about if I'm watching it or not. :beatup:


I agree but my point was that some people, you included, have stated they are waiting until next year to draw any "conclusions." What conclusion are you referring to if not whether the coaching change was a good move or a bad move? That's the conclusion I don't see the point of bothering with, IMO, (which means for me). Maybe I mis-understood.


The conclusion I'm talking about is if this team is actually getting better, period (meaning becoming more competitive). If we were comparing the 1st half and 2nd half of the season (regardless of the coach), my comments would be the same.


It blows my mind, though, that people (in general as I know many like this) who were so un-failingly positive when Mo was coach are suddenly being so negative.


I didn't think I was being negative - just giving my impressions about the 2nd half of this season. I've been on record as hoping to see improvement before the end of the year, because I think it's important for this team to not to have 164 games of frustration and inconsistency. This team wasn't able to overcome that this season, and it seems like it will be mighty difficult to do after 2 full seasons.

It's great that people feel like this team has found heart and balls, but I need more than 3 games to feel like it's now part of their identify rather than a happy accident.

I'm not even complaining, I'm still going to games and will continue to. I'm just looking for something more. And I'm willing to wait until next season to see if it will show up.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

LOL, yeah, I deleted that thrid thing you quoted before you even got your response up because I decided it didn't really fit in this thread since this isn't where it came to mind for me.

It's great that people feel like this team has found heart and balls, but I need more than 3 games to feel like it's now part of their identify rather than a happy accident.

I agree and my original statement was only saying I'd seen it the "past few games" in response to you saying you hadn't seen any but Lavi's. I wasn't trying to make any huge sweeping statement. Just pointing out what I had seen the past few games.

I get what you're saying on drawing conclusions now. I'm to the point where all I'm looking at is what I'm enjoying right now. You're looking really long term. No wonder we have mis-understood each other.

[nccanes]

LOL SHC. The "have a good time" is pretty much a given with me. ;) My standards for enjoying a game are lower (hey, I'm easy). And I definitely had a good time on Sat. night. :D

Yeah, I'm just hoping for a real nice positive trend to end the season. It might be difficult to do if we have more trades in the works, but it certainly would be nice to have that something to build on.

If we can get KAdams back on this road trip, and maybe see Ward (where are we in his recovery?) before the end of the season, that would be a nice injection of emotion.

[talkingcanes]

Ward's surgery was late January (20th, 21st) and he was expected to be out 6-8 weeks. We are just a month into it, so unless he is a fast healer we may not see Ward back.

[stewart123]

Anyone know how many games Storr played under Lavi versus Mo?

Under Mo, Storr had 6 decisions (0-4-2) and 2 partial games.
Under Lavi, Storr had 4 decisions ( 0-4-0) and 2 partial games.

Also. I wonder what the percentages were with Markov and post Markov. He was a good PK man himself. I miss Markov.

With Markov, PK% was 82.5%.
Without Markov, PK% was 77.6%.

[agentpreppie]

I think one of the things we need to keep in mind is that you should probably take out PL's first 8 games. Why? Because the boys were starting to learn a new system then. It was basically training camp games during the season. I'd like to see a comparison of Mo's last ten games and PL's last ten games. I would think it'd be a little more even comparison.

[guinevere]

Ward's surgery was late January (20th, 21st) and he was expected to be out 6-8 weeks. We are just a month into it, so unless he is a fast healer we may not see Ward back.

I heard ward say last night that he will be able to "touch a puck" next week.

[RIO]

I heard ward say last night that he will be able to "touch a puck" next week.

His puck or someone elses? Heh. :D

[stewart123]

I think one of the things we need to keep in mind is that you should probably take out PL's first 8 games. Why? Because the boys were starting to learn a new system then. It was basically training camp games during the season. I'd like to see a comparison of Mo's last ten games and PL's last ten games. I would think it'd be a little more even comparison.


I don't see how it's a more even comparison.. taking the last 10 angst-ridden stick-gripping games for Maurice that forced the firing, and compare them to 10 games for Laviolette against different teams with no playoff pressure. But anyway, the results are eerily similar, with additional scoring both for and against.

Laviolette Maurice

Games 10 10

Record 3-3-3-1 3-3-2-2
Home Record 1-0-2-1 1-0-2-1
Road Record 2-3-1-0 2-3-0-1

Ave Goals For 2.20 1.40
Ave Goals Against 2.50 1.80

Power Play % 10.1% 10.0%
Penalty Kill % 80.0% 87.8%

Ave Shots For 29.2 27.8
Ave Shots Against 27.3 23.6

Shoot % For 7.5% 5.0%
Shoot % Against 9.2% 7.6%