Laviolette's "Fitness Testing" draws criticism

[nccanes]

I don't have an article or anything, but I just watched Coaches Corner on CBC and Cherry was giving JR and Laviolette a hard time for allowing/scheduling fitness tests on the day before they played the Islanders, given that the Islanders were still in a playoff race. Cherry referenced Glen Healey's remarks last night on TSN and qualified his criticism by saying "if it's true".

Now, there is no doubt that it is true, I saw part of myself with my own eyes. The Canes practiced in 2 groups on Thursday. I got there late and group 2 was sitting on the bench waiting to get started following an ice make. I left after I realized they were doing timed drills, so I can't vouch for how long or hard these tests were. If they were going to be used as benchmarks, I can only presume the players were supposed to be going all out. The drill I saw was a "suicide" like line to line sprint. At the minimum, they did not prepare for this game by practicing in any normal fashion.

The N/O mentioned off ice testing too, but wasn't specific.

Anyone else know how intense the drills were?

Aaryn, did you see Healey's rant on TSN last night?

[talkingcanes]

I thought I read that it was something mandated by the NHL to be done during the season. I didn't get the impression that there was a specific time for it to be done. I could be mistaken, but I thought I read that in the paper, on the web, somewhere???

Don Cherry has to be kidding if he is blaming the Canes for Buffalo not making the playoffs. They beat us 3 out of 4 games. What else do they want from us? I would love for Buffalo to have made the playoffs, but it is not the Canes' responsibilty to make it happen. Don Cherry is an ass :mad: I know people just love him, but I honestly can't even watch him.

[nccanes]

I think there was a post on fanhome that talked about the "in season testing" stuff.

I didn't get that Cherry was blaming the Canes, but that it wasn't fair to the Sabres that the Canes might have done anything less than playing/preparing for the Islanders in the appropriate manner.

As far as the "in season" thing, what do playoffs teams do - do they not do testing? Was this just something Laviolette/Friesen wanted to do, but not required?

I wonder if the N/O will mention it in tomorrow paper.

[talkingcanes]

this is what it said Friday in the N&O. I know I read something about fitness tests somewhere else and not specifically about the Canes, but it could have been in a different context.

The Hurricanes practiced Thursday with an eye to next year. Every healthy player went through a fitness test in the weight room and on the ice.

I still think if Cherry accused the Canes of not being fair to the Sabres because they didn't prepare properly then that equals blame, but I am also willing to concede it could be my anti-Don Cherry bias that makes me see it that way ;)

[AbNormal27]

OK, I saw Glenn Healy's comments, and I agree with him, the timing of the test were bad. However (this is directed at you Don Cherry bashers), Don Cherry's comments were such that he wasn't assuming they were true, but he also agreed with Healy in that the timing was bad.

Now, I'm not blaming the Hurricanes or PLav or JR for the Sabres not making the playoffs. This is a league with an 82 game schedule. If a team doesn't make the playoffs, they can't blame it on another teams poor performance in a meaningless late season game. They have only thier OWN poor performances throughout the season to blame. Therefore, this is much ado about nothing in my eyes. The Sabres didn't make the playoffs because of the Sabres, much like the Hurricanes didn't make the playoffs because of the Hurricanes.

Aaryn

[tommy]

This is a league with an 82 game schedule. If a team doesn't make the playoffs, they can't blame it on another teams poor performance in a meaningless late season game. They have only thier OWN poor performances throughout the season to blame. Therefore, this is much ado about nothing in my eyes. The Sabres didn't make the playoffs because of the Sabres, much like the Hurricanes didn't make the playoffs because of the Hurricanes.

What he said.

If the Sabres wouldn't have gotten reamed 6-0 by the Isles the second game of the season, or if they hadn't gone on a 7-game losing streak from December 4th to the 19th, they could be the ones on the inside looking out right now. There are so many different situations that could have arisen. The Canes could have forfeit the last game, and it still would be Buffalo's fault that they didn't make the playoffs.

[nccanes]

I think the Sabres thing is kind of clouding the point that both Healy and Cherry were trying to make (and I'm not really a fan of either of them, but I agree with them).

Leaving the Sabres out of it, why did the Canes ditch the last few practices to conduct testing when they were facing a team that was battling for the playoffs? Why not wait until Saturday to do so when the final game is against a non-playoff team.

The NHL wouldn't allow the Canes to excuse Irbe to play in the prelim rounds of the Olympics because of the expectation that you put your best team on the ice. I would think that not practicing or preparing for an important game (from the NHL perspective) or doing something that might fatigue a team would be equally 'wrong'. JMO.

[tommy]

I still think that it doesn't make a difference. If the Islanders had already clinched, it wouldn't have mattered at all, but the game still would have been played. It's a matter of putting yourself into a position where you don't have to rely on other teams to help you out. It is not the 'Canes responsibility to get the Sabres into the playoffs.

And if you leave the Sabres out of it, then there's no point to discuss. The Canes are eliminated, the Islanders aren't. Obviously the players shouldn't sandbag, but seeing their third period effort, I don't think they intended to lose. If they wanted to do this conditioning thing the day before they could clinch a playoff spot, it's their decision. I don't see what the fuss is about.

[AbNormal27]

if you leave the Sabres out of it, then there's no point to discuss. The Canes are eliminated, the Islanders aren't. Obviously the players shouldn't sandbag, but seeing their third period effort, I don't think they intended to lose. If they wanted to do this conditioning thing the day before they could clinch a playoff spot, it's their decision. I don't see what the fuss is about.

Game. Set, and......... Match! Good show, Tommy.

Aaryn

[nccanes]

Okay, well we'll just agree to disagree. I'm talking about the Sabres being left out from the standpoint of blame. Cherry did not "blame" the Canes, he merely was talking about the approach the Canes took.

Then I don't understand why there is even any discussion about teams that say "Goalie #1" will face playoff teams and "Backup Goalie" will face non-playoff teams during the final month of the season.

The point, as I understand and appreciate it, is that you don't do anything that will make it easier for a team to earn their spot - whether it's game 32 or 81. I respect that.

So, how about this. What about the 15,000+ people that paid to attend that final game. Do they not owe the fans the best possible showing? Tommy do you pay for your seats? Aaryn, did you pay $100 to go see the Canes final game?

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I agree with Eileen. To me, this has absolutely nothing to do with Buffalo. Sure, these last few games don't really matter in the grand scheme. But I'm really quite irritated that they are treating them that way. I'm pissed that they didn't practice yesterday. If Lavi thought they played so poorly in the last two games then they should have had a pretty hard practice yesterday, IMO. They should be preparing for games until the games are over, IMO, Buffalo or no Buffalo. Last game of a meaningless season or not.....these last couple games sure as hell aren't meaningless to me!!

And I think Don Cherry is an obnoxious ass as well. An obnoxious ass who knows a helluva lot about hockey, but an obnoxious ass nonetheless. :beatup:

[AbNormal27]

Aaryn, did you pay $100 to go see the Canes final game?

No I didn't, but I also said I didn't agree with the timing of the tests.

OK, I saw Glenn Healy's comments, and I agree with him, the timing of the test were bad.

Aaryn

[tommy]

Okay, well we'll just agree to disagree. I'm talking about the Sabres being left out from the standpoint of blame. Cherry did not "blame" the Canes, he merely was talking about the approach the Canes took.

Then I don't understand why there is even any discussion about teams that say "Goalie #1" will face playoff teams and "Backup Goalie" will face non-playoff teams during the final month of the season.

The point, as I understand and appreciate it, is that you don't do anything that will make it easier for a team to earn their spot - whether it's game 32 or 81. I respect that.

So, how about this. What about the 15,000+ people that paid to attend that final game. Do they not owe the fans the best possible showing? Tommy do you pay for your seats? Aaryn, did you pay $100 to go see the Canes final game?

Let me get something straight. Are you saying that if the Canes wouldn't have had conditioning the day before, that they would have won? If you are insinuating anything close to that, I disagree. All teams are going to have games where they start out pitiful. So do you think Weekes was just too tired from conditioning? In that case, Boulerice must just be in a lot better shape, because he played like crazy. Is the defense weak enough for the conditioning to cause them to play like crap? Well Staal had some awesome moves that game, so it must not have affected him. Yes, I paid 21 dollars to watch that game, and you know what? I left with a smile.

[nccanes]

Aaryn, did you pay $100 to go see the Canes final game?

No I didn't, but I also said I didn't agree with the timing of the tests.

OK, I saw Glenn Healy's comments, and I agree with him, the timing of the test were bad.

Aaryn

Then I guess I misunderstood your comments about "Game, Set, Match" since Tommy was disagreeing with me.

[nccanes]

Let me get something straight. Are you saying that if the Canes wouldn't have had conditioning the day before, that they would have won?


No I'm not and I think you know that. I'm talking about not preparing for the final home game against a playoff team vying for position in the same and appropriate manner - period.


In that case, Boulerice must just be in a lot better shape, because he played like crazy. Is the defense weak enough for the conditioning to cause them to play like crap? Well Staal had some awesome moves that game, so it must not have affected him.


Again, how individual players played really has nothing to do with my point. The Hurricanes are a team in the NHL and I expect them to prepare for a game in the appropriate manner.


Yes, I paid 21 dollars to watch that game, and you know what? I left with a smile.

That's good - my apologies for assuming your parents provide you with your tickets. I enjoyed myself too. But that really has little to do with the discussion.

John and Tripp seemed to be annoyed at the attention this got. But nowhere in the discussion did either one of them say that the fitness testing had zero impact on the Hurricanes game. Tripp yammered on about how it's PL's responsibility to be concerned with the Canes and next season first. Basically he confirmed what Cherry was saying, imo.

My posts might sound more annoyed than I am, but I do think it's a valid discussion.

[Cool Hand Luke]

final home game [/i]against a playoff team vying for position in the same and appropriate manner - period.



Appropriate manner? According to you or Don Cherry?

What if we would have won the game, I wonder if anyone would have complained about the way we prepared for the game then? Maybe we should change the way that we prepare for every home game, and change the whole meaning of what some people think is "appropriate", based on our home record this year. If Vasicek's goal had been allowed, can anyone say the outcome certainly would have been the same as it turned out to be?

Suppose we didn't know that the physical testing happened, would anyone have noticed a major difference in the way the team performed? I didn't notice anything.

What if Laviolette started Irbe instead of Weekes? Don Cherry and others would have cried long and hard that Weekes was our number one all year long, we shouldn't have played Irbe. So, our coach isn't allowed to make a gut decision based upon his feeling of who is the best goalie at that given time? Our coach also isn't allowed to make a decison that would prepare us for next year? What if Lavi held a bag skate and skated everyone into the groud the day before? That might not have been considered "appropriate" preparation in some people's minds, but it might have been warranted given other circumstances. He's not allowed to do that?

I'm happy our coach isn't worried about keeping Don Cherry and Glen Healy happy, He's concerned with making the Hurricanes a better team. Good for him. I think Cherry and Healy should be more concerned about the flakey ass rule that allows a ref the right to disallow an obvious goal, because he thought he had the "INTENT" to blow the whistle. That's got to be the most idiotic thing I have ever heard, and first time I have seen a goal taken away because of that specific ruling.

[tommy]

Hold me CHL. Hold me, and never let go.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Damn, people aren't too receptive to others' opinions tonight, are they. Seems like people are freaking out over this discussion on every board I visit. You'd think someone just said we should fire Mo or trade Weekes. :crazy:

[nccanes]

Yeah, I guess agreeing with Don Cherry (which isn't often with me) is a terrible thing to do.

My apologies to Aaryn, Tommy (aka John Buccigross), and CHL. I forgot that we often allow 6 goals in 30 minutes of game time. Carry on.

You are all correct - Peter Laviolette should do exactly as he pleases and we should never discuss or question it. :angel:

[tommy]

Jesus H. Christ, some of you people are SO effin' touchy! Can we NOT have a decent discussion about this?

The Bucci insult was totally unnecessary.

I think I'm gonna chill somewhere else for a while. Peace.

[nccanes]

What Bucci insult? I just recognized your post as one of his fave sayings. Guess I should have included a winking smiley.

I think I pointed out in this thread that my comments probably came across as more annoyed then I really was. For some reason people thought that I was incensed I guess.

Oh well. The season is over and Pete Friesen has the data he needs. Lets hope it can translate into more pucks in the net next year.

Sorry to upset you Tommy, not my intention at all.


Edit to change "goals" to "pucks".

[tommy]

In the middle of an eye-rolling type statement, your Bucci comment stuck out as an insult, as well... read it from my position and see what I might think.

[nccanes]

Again, not my intention Tommy.

I will bow out of this thread, my thoughts are pretty clear as I've re-read what I wrote. Apologies to all for the sideshow.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Damn, people aren't too receptive to others' opinions tonight, are they. Seems like people are freaking out over this discussion on every board I visit. You'd think someone just said we should fire Mo or trade Weekes. :crazy:

Sorry, I thought I was just discussing this just like others were. We are allowed to disagree, are we not? :) I don't see how or why this got personal, but I apologize if something I posted was misconstrued that way.

(feels secure enough in my manhood to hold Tommy)... :D :D

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I think I mentioned that other boards were involved in the people freaking out stuff. I just thought the responses overall here were pretty terse, especially for a topic I fail to see the fire point on,....and they've been downright nasty elsewhere. I always take it as snarky when someone latches onto and harps on one word that a poster uses.....like "appropriate" in this case. And I've always felt that comments like "game, set, match," "hold me," and "bingo" (which I'm certainly guilty of myself) can do more damage than good. Those kind of comments just seem to me like the equivalent of "BURN!" you know? I also don't know that I think bringing up whether or not people paid for their tickets to the games is all that relevent, or fair in the case of tommy and Aaryn. I think fans expect 100% effort whether they are able to attend the game in person or not. But those may be my issues, not yours. :)

[RIO]

(feels secure enough in my manhood to hold Tommy)... :D :D

rofl!! :D

[corylav]

Guess we should criticize the Pens for sending down M.A. Fleury then, huh? How is this even an issue when a bundle of the teams in the league dumped TONS of salary, hence not making them very competitive? Should the Caps have to consider how may games they've played against teams in the playoff hunt before they dump all their top players?

This is just a non-issue, IMHO.

[nccanes]

I think the points you raise are valid ones and are great arguments that get revisited each year concerning how close the trade deadline is to the end of the season/playoffs. But that's not the discussion I was attempting to have.

This discussion comes down to expecations, and obviously fans have different ones.

[SouthernCaniac]

Aaaahh, the beauty of being a selfish witch precludes me from having any concern about this isssue. In my jingoistic, Canes-centric mind, the following things run through it:

I enjoyed the game directly after the fitness testing.

The team had nothing crucial on the line.

Screw the Islanders.

Screw the Leafs while we're at it.

If the testing was indeed a punishment, then yes, punish their asses, and next time let ME watch.

Damn you, Pete Friesen, for affirming my suspicions that the season was over long before that final game. I could care less about the ethics of putting a fatigued team on the ice when some other team is fighting for the playoffs, but to rub it in my face like that? I'll get you, my pretty, and your little stopwatch too.

Screw the Leafs.

[e2ipiand1]

We scored four goals in that game. What more do they expect?

[nccanes]

We scored four goals in that game. What more do they expect?


We scored six on Sunday and still didn't win.

This is a very confusing thread to me. Who is "they"?

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Damn you, Pete Friesen, for affirming my suspicions that the season was over long before that final game. I could care less about the ethics of putting a fatigued team on the ice when some other team is fighting for the playoffs, but to rub it in my face like that? I'll get you, my pretty, and your little stopwatch too.


You nailed it for me right there.

People keep bringing up all these great points about issues totally unrelated to THIS situation, IMO. I agree. It's a confusing thread.

[tommy]

So what is the point?

I thought the argument was that conditioning is not an 'appropriate' manner of practicing and that by doing that we a)screwed the fans and b)screwed the Sabres.

I'm confused, too. lol.

[nccanes]

I'm confused, too. lol.

Well, now we agree again Tommy! :beatup:

[Cool Hand Luke]

This is more amusing than confusing. *L* For a subject that really isn't important to anyone, it's the thread that just won't die. :D

"This is a very confusing thread to me. Who is "they"?"

If I had to make a guess, I would assume "they" are the people who complained or questioned the point that not enough effort was given on Friday night? Or that the team was so exhausted from previous testing that the NHL and the fans somehow got cheated out of the Canes best efforts? As for the 4 goal reference, I assume the point is that if there was enough effort given to score 4 goals, then maybe the team wasn't so exhausted and maybe people shouldn't complain about the effort? If it was a 6-0 game, maybe then more people could understand the questioning of everything?

I'm not positive about these answers, I'm just trying to help all the confusion. *S*

[Alicia]

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/h0/nut.gif

[nccanes]

Great smiley BatesB - lmao.

[Alicia]

Great smiley BatesB - lmao.

I thought it captured the essence of this thread! ;)

[agentpreppie]

So what is the point?

I thought the argument was that conditioning is not an 'appropriate' manner of practicing and that by doing that we a)screwed the fans and b)screwed the Sabres.

I'm confused, too. lol.

The Sabres screwed themselves by losing. We could have waxed the Islanders 20-0 and the Sabres STILL would have been out of the playoffs. Their getting into the playoffs was based on the Islanders not winning anymore AND their not losing. They lost. We couldn't have done anything for them.

[tommy]

So what is the point?

I thought the argument was that conditioning is not an 'appropriate' manner of practicing and that by doing that we a)screwed the fans and b)screwed the Sabres.

I'm confused, too. lol.

The Sabres screwed themselves by losing. We could have waxed the Islanders 20-0 and the Sabres STILL would have been out of the playoffs. Their getting into the playoffs was based on the Islanders not winning anymore AND their not losing. They lost. We couldn't have done anything for them.

And by reading my 15 bajillion other posts in this very thread, you would have realized that's EXACTLY what I said!

[Alicia]

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/h0/nut.gif

[tommy]

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/h0/nut.gif

Ditto.

[RIO]

lol Alicia!!!

[cmw00]

Ah Don Cherry is gonna say somthing stupid about everything eventually. It was just the canes' turn.....

[agentpreppie]

And by reading my 15 bajillion other posts in this very thread, you would have realized that's EXACTLY what I said!

Yeah, but I said it better. :p

[tommy]

And by reading my 15 bajillion other posts in this very thread, you would have realized that's EXACTLY what I said!

Yeah, but I said it better. :p

I said it first! :p

[RIO]

To your corners, gentlemen!! lol :D

[rkbrasse]

Ahhh grapes. He is the voice of Canadian Hockey Fan. :D

[AbNormal27]

Ahhh grapes. He is the voice of Canadian Hockey Fan. :D

I'll do you one better........ He is the voice of TRUE hockey fans.

Aaryn

[Guyute]

I'd just like to say... that couch-fabric wearin' mug will Never be My voice.

:p

signed,
True Hockey Fan :beatup:

[Shell]

lol, agreed!

[AbNormal27]

:roll: Some people just don't get it. While he may be brash, the man does know what he is talking about.

Aaryn

[Shell]

don't roll your eyes at me just because I don't agree with your opinion. Nothing I hate worse than someone saying a TRUE hockey fan has to agree with or like anything. That is not the case.
Also, I never said the man didn't know hockey..but I will say he does not speak for me on any level.

[AbNormal27]

don't roll your eyes at me just because I don't agree with your opinion. Nothing I hate worse than someone saying a TRUE hockey fan has to agree with or like anything. That is not the case.
Also, I never said the man didn't know hockey..but I will say he does not speak for me on any level.

SLOW DOWN THERE! I was saying that in jest! SHEESH! You don't like him, I get it.

Aaryn

[Guyute]

well that deserves a :roll: from me.

eye-rollin' ain't really all that nice... certainly not when followed by the usual 'you don't know jack' sentiment.

I was going to post more, but I'll be nice and put it in a PM.

in closing, quit the crap. I'm back. I'm not happy to be home and back to work. last thing I felt like doing was going through 112 posts of bickering. Yet I sit here doing much of exactly that.

I don't want to close this thread. but, I will if it continues.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

in closing, quit the crap. I'm back. I'm not happy to be home and back to work. last thing I felt like doing was going through 112 posts of bickering. Yet I sit here doing much of exactly that.

I don't want to close this thread. but, I will if it continues.

No one has posting in this thread ('cept you guys) for about a week now. I think we're cool. :spin:

[Guyute]

yeah I know. and I almost didn't post anything at all. but, I did. I couldn't let a post that put words in my mouth sit there w/out a word. tough poop. that's me. :p

*brandishes new Mexican beating stick*

[RIO]

*grabs the Guy and squeezes* SQUISH SQUISH!! :D

[SouthernHockeyChick]

yeah I know. and I almost didn't post anything at all. but, I did. I couldn't let a post that put words in my mouth sit there w/out a word. tough poop. that's me. :p

*brandishes new Mexican beating stick*

That's why we love you. :p

[Shell]

yeah I know. and I almost didn't post anything at all. but, I did. I couldn't let a post that put words in my mouth sit there w/out a word. tough poop. that's me. :p

*brandishes new Mexican beating stick*

That's why we love you. :p

Speak for yourself Angie, I'm in it for the big stick :p ;)

[RIO]

Ba-doom-CHHHHH!!! lol :D

[Night Train]

Speak for yourself Angie, I'm in it for the big stick :p ;)

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Moderators, take a look at this one! Lock this thread for Pete's sake! Do it for the kids!

;)

[RIO]

Speak for yourself Angie, I'm in it for the big stick :p ;)

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Moderators, take a look at this one! Lock this thread for Pete's sake! Do it for the kids!

;)

Kids happen because of threads like these!! CENSOR CENSOR! :D

[rkbrasse]

**** the Kids, save me.

[rkbrasse]

**** the Kids, save me.

Help I'm being opressed.

[MoBigRed]

I'm offended... :crazy:

[RIO]

Offended!? How offensive!

[tommy]

Offended!? How offensive!

I just read this post, and I would like to let you know how offensive it is that you take offense at that.

[RIO]

I'm on the offensive now since you offensively offended me with your offen-sensitivity, sir!

[Lady J]

I'm on the offensive now since you offensively offended me with your offen-sensitivity, sir!

Frankly, I'm offended that the offen-sensitive people are being so offensively maligned and I protest with great offense.

[Night Train]

DEFENSE!! (clap clap clap) DEFENSE!!