Roenick speaks on the lockout and fans

[apolinar]

Note to Mr. Roenick: Kiss my B###
Keep your trap shut before you alienate the rest of the fans!

Roenick goes on tirade over NHL lockout
TSN.ca Staff with KDKA files
6/26/2005 9:16:32 AM
The National Hockey League and NHL Players' Association may be off for the weekend from CBA talks, but that didn't stop Philadelphia Flyers forward Jeremy Roenick from offering up another two cents on the topic, ripping the process, the upcoming deal and the fans.

Roenick, who was speaking at a Saturday media conference for Mario Lemieux's charity golf tournament, let out all his frustrations on the NHL lockout in a profanity-laced diatribe.

"They could have listened to the players who had an idea of where this was going - myself, (Flyers teammate) Robert Esche, (Calgary Flames captain) Jarome Iginla and (St. Louis Blues defenceman) Chris Pronger," he explained.

"But in February, I didn't think the deal stood up."
Related Info

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Roenick was referring to his involvement with Esche, Pronger and Iginla as part of a group that reportedly tried to put forth new, independent ideas for a collective bargaining agreement. Several reports said that some of his fellow players were later upset and angry over his actions.

Roenick also said Saturday that the new CBA will be much less than what was offered to the Players' Association back in February.

"If we would have signed that deal in February, in terms of what we're getting now, we would have looked like heroes," he added.

"Right now we look like a bunch of idiots...The deal in February beats the (expletive) out of the deal we're gonna sign in July."

Roenick said the labour war has turned into his worst defeat since the 1992 playoffs.

Though both the NHL and NHLPA have had weeks of small-group meetings and intense bargaining sessions, neither side has been specific about when a deal could finally be done. It's believed a tentative deal could be reached as early as next week or after the Canada Day and Fourth of July weekend. The renewed sense of optimism over an impending deal is a stark contrast to the doom and gloom of four months ago when NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman cancelled the 2004-2005 season.

"It's unfortunate we had to go through a whole year to realize the (expletive) that was going on," said Roenick. "We've hurt our league, we've hurt the reputation of our league and the integrity of our league by sticking up for something that might not have been the right thing to do."

Roenick then made his case for NHL players and what he thought of public opinion up to this point.

"If people are going to sit and chastise pro athletes for being cocky - for being suck asses - they need to look at one thing and that's the deal we're going to be signing in about three weeks," he said.

"Pro athletes are not cocky. Pro athletes care about the game. Everybody out there who calls us spoiled because we play a game - they can kiss my ass."

Roenick went on to say that the players didn't want those so-called "fans" at the rink.

"I will say personally, personally, to everybody who calls us spoiled - you guys are just jealous... We're trying to get this thing back on the ice and make it better for the fans. If you don't realize that, then don't come. We don't want you in the rink, we don't want you in the stadium, we don't want you to watch hockey."

Even if a new NHL collective bargaining agreement is reached, the 15-year NHL veteran may not make a return to the ice.

Roenick told Sporting News Radio on Friday that he has not made up his mind about whether or not he'll lace up his skates again.

"I have to see how my body reacts to some really, really, really hard training regimen here coming up in the latter part of the summer," he said.

"It's very hard to get motivated without a deal. Once that announcement comes, I think the motivational factor will definitely be lifted. I have not 100 percent made my decision to play, but to tell you the truth, I have a lot of drive in me and really, really want to continue."

Quotes from Pittsburgh's KDKA were used for this report.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I pretty much can't blame him for anything he said. He was part of a group that worked to get this thing done earlier and Goodenow wasn't listening. IMO, it's never been the players, it's their idiotic leader. I don't blame him for being frustrated with that mess and with fans who now think he's a jacka** when he was one of the ones fighting against the long hold-out. He's admitting what they were holding-out for wasn't the right thing to do.

And I get sick of people whining about them getting paid to play a game myself. You (fans who complain about players being spoiled in general, no one specific) don't like that? You don't think it's right that they make so much money? Then don't buy the tickets!! How can we sit back and support the system that pays them so much and then call them spoiled for taking it? Like any of us wouldn't. Plus, I think people forget what a grueling lifestyle theses guys have. It's easy to sit back and think their life is all peachy-keen just because they make a lot of money but I guess in our materialistic society people forget that money really doesn't buy you happiness. A system that pays atheletes more than teachers is absolutely the most screwed up thing, IMO, but the system only reflects the values of those who support it....and that would be the general population so I don't see what they have to b*tch about.

I agree it would be nice had he managed to keep the tirade to himself....but then he wouldn't be Jeremy Roenick, would he? :D As far as what he said.....I can understand where he's coming from. And it's kinda nice to see things slowly getting back to normal. Today Roenick has his foot in his mouth again, maybe tomorrow Domi will have his head back up his a**. :evil:

[ontheboards]

All of his good effort and risk taking in February was undone in one press conference. Rather than be known as one of the guys within the NHLPA who took a stance for the game and against the status quo of the PA, he just blasted away, once again, without thought. He's pissed off the leadership of the NHLPA, the membership and the grief he took back in February, but lashes out at the fans for having the same insight he, Esche, Iginla and Pronger had-- classless...

[Mona]

Well im my opinion, I think Roenick is one of the few players (in the main spotlight) that wanted to sign and sign the CBA early for the right reasons. All along he has been concerned about the fans and I believe that he is truly concerned about us. Yes what they get in July as opposed to even what they could have settled for last summer is shi*... and I say tough shi* for them!!! :mad: Now shut the fu** up and get back on the ice.

[tommy]

I pretty much can't blame him for anything he said. He was part of a group that worked to get this thing done earlier and Goodenow wasn't listening. IMO, it's never been the players, it's their idiotic leader. I don't blame him for being frustrated with that mess and with fans who now think he's a jacka** when he was one of the ones fighting against the long hold-out. He's admitting what they were holding-out for wasn't the right thing to do.

And I get sick of people whining about them getting paid to play a game myself. You (fans who complain about players being spoiled in general, no one specific) don't like that? You don't think it's right that they make so much money? Then don't buy the tickets!! How can we sit back and support the system that pays them so much and then call them spoiled for taking it? Like any of us wouldn't. Plus, I think people forget what a grueling lifestyle theses guys have. It's easy to sit back and think their life is all peachy-keen just because they make a lot of money but I guess in our materialistic society people forget that money really doesn't buy you happiness. A system that pays atheletes more than teachers is absolutely the most screwed up thing, IMO, but the system only reflects the values of those who support it....and that would be the general population so I don't see what they have to b*tch about.

I agree it would be nice had he managed to keep the tirade to himself....but then he wouldn't be Jeremy Roenick, would he? :D As far as what he said.....I can understand where he's coming from. And it's kinda nice to see things slowly getting back to normal. Today Roenick has his foot in his mouth again, maybe tomorrow Domi will have his head back up his a**. :evil:

Holy ****, believe it or not, I agree with everything SHC just said. (Again, this is rare, people.)

Very well done - I couldn't have said any of that better myself. Despite my ill will toward the players at times, realistically, I think everything you just said was true.

[puck_it]

i agree as well.

see i think he genuinley loves the game and the fans. but he genuinely loves money too. but hey he still cares about us.

[Alicia]

I pretty much can't blame him for anything he said. He was part of a group that worked to get this thing done earlier and Goodenow wasn't listening. IMO, it's never been the players, it's their idiotic leader. I don't blame him for being frustrated with that mess and with fans who now think he's a jacka** when he was one of the ones fighting against the long hold-out. He's admitting what they were holding-out for wasn't the right thing to do.

And I get sick of people whining about them getting paid to play a game myself. You (fans who complain about players being spoiled in general, no one specific) don't like that? You don't think it's right that they make so much money? Then don't buy the tickets!! How can we sit back and support the system that pays them so much and then call them spoiled for taking it? Like any of us wouldn't. Plus, I think people forget what a grueling lifestyle theses guys have. It's easy to sit back and think their life is all peachy-keen just because they make a lot of money but I guess in our materialistic society people forget that money really doesn't buy you happiness. A system that pays atheletes more than teachers is absolutely the most screwed up thing, IMO, but the system only reflects the values of those who support it....and that would be the general population so I don't see what they have to b*tch about.

I agree it would be nice had he managed to keep the tirade to himself....but then he wouldn't be Jeremy Roenick, would he? :D As far as what he said.....I can understand where he's coming from. And it's kinda nice to see things slowly getting back to normal. Today Roenick has his foot in his mouth again, maybe tomorrow Domi will have his head back up his a**. :evil:

Holy ****, believe it or not, I agree with everything SHC just said. (Again, this is rare, people.)

Very well done - I couldn't have said any of that better myself. Despite my ill will toward the players at times, realistically, I think everything you just said was true.

Yeah, she & I share a brain sometimes...or should I have just said "Me too!"? ;)

[raleighcanesfan]

Yeah, she & I share a brain sometimes...or should I have just said "Me too!"? ;)

Hey SHC--you sharin' your half of our brain with someone else? See, I thought you've been 'with the establishment' too much lately...

(-: (the left-handed smilie)

[nccanes]

Allow me to be the dissenter. :beatup:

I read the article as posted yesterday and SHCs response and didn't feel compelled to reply.

But last night, watching ESPNNews, something that has shown wee little anything related to hockey, shows a nice healthy clip of his little hissy fit, complete with bleeping out his profanity.

C'mon - he's at a charity golf event and feels compelled to blow off steam by (at least in part) getting on the fans. Using phrases that "we" don't need them? Who is we? Does JR have his own club where they allow him to speak for them?

Sorry - I enjoy JR's candor most of the time, but it was ill-timed and became the soundbite that finally gets the NHL back on SportsCenter.

As far as choosing to not go to games because I think players are overpaid, isn't that throwing the baby out with the bath water? And it certainly appears that the NHLPA is agreeing they are overpaid, they offered the first rollback offer of 24%. They are going to make less money. Sounds like they agree with the "whiners" that think they are overpaid. Why can the NHLPA have that stance and fans not?

Anyway - I have a personal pet peeve when people speak for me without my permission. I suspect there are players in the NHLPA that don't appreciate JR speaking for them.

And finally - every poll I've seen shows that the general fanbase "sided" (for lack of a better word) with the owners. Be careful what you wish for JR, if all the fans that felt that way gave up watching and attending hockey - you'd be in a world of hurt.

Now - do I realize this is JR? Of course. But let his little hissy fit get lost in the shuffle of a signed CBA and the news coming out about that. Don't make yourself the headline while the deal is still being worked out.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Sorry - I enjoy JR's candor most of the time, but it was ill-timed and became the soundbite that finally gets the NHL back on SportsCenter.


Isn't any pubilicity good pubilicity? Better than nothing, isn't it? :D At least some folks who forgot hockey exists just got reminded.


As far as choosing to not go to games because I think players are overpaid, isn't that throwing the baby out with the bath water? And it certainly appears that the NHLPA is agreeing they are overpaid, they offered the first rollback offer of 24%. They are going to make less money. Sounds like they agree with the "whiners" that think they are overpaid. Why can the NHLPA have that stance and fans not? He didn't say to not come if you think they are over-paid...that was me. He said don't come if you think they're spoiled.

And the very fact that they agreed they were over-paid and are taking a huge paycut might be why we should cut them some slack. Particularly players like JR who offered to do it a long time ago. :huh:

[nccanes]

"Pro athletes are not cocky. Pro athletes care about the game. Everybody out there who calls us spoiled because we play a game - they can kiss my ass."


Do I think they are spoiled? Uh yes.

Others I've talked to closer to the game (and affected financially by this) have called them spoiled. That doesn't mean I don't want to watch hockey, but I think every one of them is 'spoiled' in some way. Isn't that what we heard from every player that played over in Europe? How great the NHL treats them?

And if JR is going to have his profanity laden little fit at a charity event, then I think he pretty much confirms his cockiness. :D :lol:

I don't doubt lots of players feel (at some point) the way he has. They feel like they've been painted as the bad guys. But jeezus, grow up. Being a millionaire pro athlete has some downside too. I've said it a million time, ***** to your friends, family, spouse, but don't complain in the media about how you're misunderstood. :lol:

But this does bring up an interesting discussion about how the NHLPA's meeting will go when they meet. While there be a huge backlash by the players that wanted to negotiate off the NHLs offers, etc? Or will everyone shut up and ratify and get on with it because there's no use crying of spilled milk?

[SoCalcaniac]

Well now...... we've got us some full fledged hockey chatter :)

I saw the article, saw JR in an apparently 'condensed' interview on FoxSports Pitt on the dish- saw the posts here and thought well, 'that's our JR being JR' and then it kinda blew the heck up. I know JR, Iginla, Pronger and Esche stuck their friggin' necks out back in Feb to go around Goodenow,et al to try and 'save the season'- if we can all recall back that far, we'll remember that those guys got their heads put on a platter up at the PA meeting after Bettman cancelled the season for 'going around' Goodenow- so I'm getting where he blew his top and had to let loose the other day. HOWEVER,

he had all rights to say that the PA was lead down the wrong road, slam PA leadership, etc. but to drag the fans in it, and then tell fans to kiss his ass if 'they' think pro athletes are 'cocky' is ill timed and so not about 'bringing fans back to the game' and if he loves the game as much as he claims, why on gods green earth would he go after 'fans' in his tirade?

I will say personally, personally, to everybody who calls us spoiled - you guys are just jealous... We're trying to get this thing back on the ice and make it better for the fans. If you don't realize that, then don't come. We don't want you in the rink, we don't want you in the stadium, we don't want you to watch hockey."

OMG WTF? :crazy: The man has lost his mind.

I'll link on to E's point that it is more than well known that these guys are "spoiled" and coddled and "have it good" and all who are in hockey and work around hockey have acknowledged it- including players- they have 'the life'- and to tell us we're "jealous"??? OMFG. I can't be jealous of something I know I am not physically capable of doing. I can't be jealous that I don't have a god given talent to skate, shoot a puck and score a goal..... I APPRECIATE the talent, the ability and the dedication it takes to get to this level, but to imply that people are jealous of them, well it might be true on some levels (i.e. Hockey guy who thinks he never got 'a chance' or hockey dad who lives through his kids acheivements etc.) to speak for me as a fan, or any of you as fans of this great game, is wholly offensive. And if JR is so hell bent on 'making it better for the fans' he should start by thinking before he speaks. I know the concept is pretty far out for him, but I'll again agree with my girl E- no way is this kind of pub on ESPN a good thing. Yes, I wanna see people talking about hockey, but JR's ill advised comments are not what I want to see. Cause here's how it rolls- (insert random ESPN or sports announcer) "well they cancelled all of the 04-05 season and now it looks like fingers are being pointed on why they couldn't agree to a deal months ago and here's Jeremy Roenick @ The Mario Lemeiux Charity tournament commenting......" blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. :roll:

I think I've said enough times how much I enjoy JR- he's a personality, he' s a guy who says what he means and means what he says, but this- UGH. Poor form dude. :eek2:

[tommy]

I will say personally, personally, to everybody who calls us spoiled - you guys are just jealous... We're trying to get this thing back on the ice and make it better for the fans. If you don't realize that, then don't come. We don't want you in the rink, we don't want you in the stadium, we don't want you to watch hockey."

OMG WTF? :crazy: The man has lost his mind.

I have to say that if I were a player, while I might not say it out loud, I might think the same thing. Like you said, we know they are spoiled, but why do we think so? Because they make more than us. They make more than teachers or workers who deserve more, and we can't stand that. All comparisons are based on some degree of jealousy, or at least I really think so. And with as much as the players and owners have been meeting, and as little information coming out of it as there is, JR may not be kidding when he says they're working their asses off to bring the game back. They pretty much all realize that Goodenow screwed them over, and any other person on earth, if acting as the head of the NHLPA, would have done better for them. And if that had been the case, we wouldn't have even had to listen to JR rant in the first place. Basically I think he was trying to get across the message that 'If you don't think we're trying to fix this, and you still think that we're holding out for more money, well then, you're an idiot.' Just my 2 pieces of copper.

[nccanes]

Basically I think he was trying to get across the message that 'If you don't think we're trying to fix this, and you still think that we're holding out for more money, well then, you're an idiot.' Just my 2 pieces of copper.

Yes Tommy I agree that his comments were following others that were trying to impress upon the listeners/press that the players very badly wanted a solution (TSN has a 2 minute 'highlight' video).

But even when put in that context, why on earth is he lashing out at fans at all? Have people been spouting about the rollback and cap as not enough or something? It really makes no sense, imo.

Which is why it's just a temper tantrum. Something he's done time and again when he's frustrated over anything in his career. Entertaining? Yes. Meaningful? Nope.

As far as thinking and saying - well that's part of life isn't it? A week doesn't go by where I don't think something that would likely get me fired if I actually said it outloud.

Anyway - here's a quote I've been looking for after JR spoke out about his opinion of getting a deal done.

In Toronto, Flyers veteran Jeremy Roenick got up and addressed the room.

''I got up and apologized for any statements I made publicly,'' he told the Philadelphia Inquirer. ''Even though I am an outspoken and have strong beliefs, there are places to do that.''

Roenick pushed hard for a salary cap without ''linkage,'' which infuriated many players still opposed to a cap.

''There were people on me and I was fine with it,'' said Roenick. ''This was my first meeting in 10 years and I came up here because I was outspoken and said a lot of things and I'm a firm believer that union had to offer the cap with no linkage and they did that. I was in favour of helping both sides get a deal done.


So I guess we wait for his apology to the fans.

[puck_it]

honestly, i dont know why im suprised by what he says anymore.

but like E said will the palyers meeting be all rants about the process? perhaps. If some of the rumors are true that Goodenow wont sign this deal, he needs to be repalced before its complete. so I imagine it may get dragged out longer than it needs to.

Either way theys going to be the ones that are disgruntled. Some will definatley be more vocal than others.

[Mona]

Several very interesting articles here... Roenick may not take the ice again.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl

[Cool Hand Luke]

It didn't really bother me what Roenick said. It cracked me up. *L* He's always been a loose cannon, speaking off the cuff without thought. This is just JR being JR. I tend not to take anything JR says very seriously. Here is one sportswriter's perspective:


We need more Jeremy Roenicks
A funny thing happened today while I tuned into SportsCenter at my friend's BBQ: I saw hockey mentioned. And it wasn't just John Buccigross throwing in random hockey references to satiate our (and his, probably) hockey appetite. No, it was actual public discussion about hockey on the network that chose not to broadcast hockey (for the time being). This is all because of Jeremy Roenick's big mouth.

You know what? That's a great thing. Agree or disagree with Roenick, the fact that he's publicly speaking his mind about the lockout is actually making news in the sports world. That's the kind of publicity the NHL needs because, let's face it, at this point any publicity is good publicity. If more people spoke out on the lockout - especially if they throw in swear words - the more hype and attention it will attract towards the upcoming season. The NHL is working on its marketing strategy to better promote its game, maybe its first idea was to get JR in front of a microphone.

Mike Chen
Senior Hockey Writer for Fantasy Sports Junkies

[puck_it]

he cant not play after those shenannigans he pulled

[nccanes]

That's the kind of publicity the NHL needs because, let's face it, at this point any publicity is good publicity.

Beg to differ.

Anyone who watches the sport would be a million more times happy to be talking about FA signings, trades, etc - than listening to JR's rant. Given that we can't do that, an announcement about the CBA, a press conference with real information, next year's schedule would all be more welcome than this particular soundbite.

I like JR, I really do enjoy him as entertainment, but it's really unimportant what 1 player thinks at this point - presumably days/weeks before a deal is signed.

We needed him and a ton more players to sound off last winter and not keep apologizing for their statements. Given that they had to step back in line, seeing folks line up to say "I told you so" isn't really impressive to me.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Damn! I knew I should have trademarked that pubilicty phrase when I used it this morning!! ;)



Anyone who watches the sport would be a million more times happy to be talking about FA signings, trades, etc - than listening to JR's rant.

Yeah, but those who watch the sport aren't the only people I think need to be reached by the publicity right now. The ones who have forgotten hockey is who JR just got an ear from. And the NBA is living proof that putting the fans through hell won't make them turn away. :beatup: ;)

[apolinar]

If you think JR's comments offended some of us Caniacs as hockey fans, think what it did to the regular blue-collar Philadelphia guy that buys the tickets to the games. Unless JR rebuts somehow someway he's gonna hear it from them. All you philly folk know how bad that can get.

Now does negative publicity hurt the game or help the game? Is any publicity good publicity? No.

Case in point, and may be a stretch, but bear with me.

How many of you are no longer interested in watching a Tom Cruise movie, especially War of the Worlds, now that he's had this negative publicity about his remarks on psychiatry and psychiatric medicines on the Today show, and how rude he was to Matt Lauer? (I know I don't wanna watch it) How much credibility has Oprah lost as an "everywoman" now that she has had her tirade at Hermes? I know that type of publicity, for both "superstars" has really turned me off. Tom Cruise has changed his humble attitude of a good actor lucky to be in his position to that of someone who has the gall to tell people on national tv to stop their medicines and dump their psychiatrists. Oprah's image has changed from a respectable star with a good heart to someone so full of herself she would rather think of herself than the people who work at the store she wanted to keep open past its usual hours. I think that shows how out of touch she has become with the reality of her viewers.

That's what JR's comment feels like... he has become out of touch with the usual hockey fan. If he speaks for all hockey players frustrated with fanspeak, the hockey players truly are spoiled from making their money from playing a game, and have lost touch with us. That is more illustrated in the jealousy comment. I certainly am not jealous of these players because spoiled children end up being the ones with the least empathy for others. I first heard JR's comments on the playground. "You're just jealous because your daddy didn't buy YOU ice cream!" said the spoiled kid.

Here's a hockey superstar known for doing the right thing and speaking his mind openly and telling the truth that others didn't want to say. And that's what makes his comments most dangerous... is it really the truth that a hockey fan such as myself who believes some of these players are spoiled rotten should not come to anymore games? Should I agree with that comment? I think they're spoiled, and I am really not jealous of the hockey players' lives and understand the hard life they lead to get where they are. I think they are spoiled, and if they weren't, the hockey players would have started negotiating this CBA 4 years ago if they really wanted to get this deal done and weren't so spoiled into thinking European teams would treat them with the same luxurious lifestyle as the NHL. Am I really a disinvited fan? Do the players really hate me and not want me there... the season ticket holder who kept his deposit in for love of the game, not for the love of the spoiled brats? (I'm generalizing here... I know the majority of hockey players are humble but the Jagr's, Lindros's, Modano's, JR's, and all players who stole european or minor hockey jobs during the lockout without regard for their brethren are damn spoiled).

Yes the NHLPA and NHL are working hard now and the NHLPA is taking a crap contract. But I never asked them to do that. Don't lash out at me for the road your brethren took you down Mr. JR.

My only expectation was for the players to start negotiating whatever contract that would keep the game afloat with the least damage to the game. If this contract was meant for JR to flaunt in my face to say, "You happy now?" or "look how much I sacrificed for you" well he can have it, because that behavior does nothing to save the game.

And then to lash out at a charity event, where they are raising money for some of the the neediest hockey fans who may have no chance at living the life of even Mike Modano's dog is just the icing on the cake. That would be like me slapping my wife at a domestic violence charity event.

I certainly cannot be jealous of people who have lost touch with reality such as JR. I just don't see any "genuine love for fans" in the way he just blamed me, as a fan, for signing a crap contract in his statements. I'm supposed to feel the love now? He's slapping me in the face again and telling me he did it because he loves me, the fan. 4 years of the NHLPA poo pooing on the CBA negotiations, and now that they have no choice but to sign crap, them signing crap is showing how much they love the game. Well, players who loved the game would have found a way to negotiate before we lost last season.

"It's unfortunate we had to go through a whole year to realize the (expletive) that was going on," said Roenick. "We've hurt our league, we've hurt the reputation of our league and the integrity of our league by sticking up for something that might not have been the right thing to do." So to make it right you insult general fan like me? Takes a spoiled brat to manipulate a situation with words to take blame away from himself and blame everyone else in the world for their misfortune. Someone who loved the game would have held his ground and not apologized at the general NHLPA meeting for the statements Roenick made regarding the crap negotiations that were going on.

[Esbee]

JR is totally, completely, off base. Period. Just goes to prove, money can't buy everything, including class, style, manners and good behavior at charity events.

Not all hockey players who have been fortunate enough to make a significant amount of money are greedy, just like all executives of large companies don't run Enron. But there are some jerks out there, and JR has proven himself to be one of them.

This isn't about PR or "just speaking his mind." He basically told fans who aren't completely on the players side to f' off. Sorry, JR, but via your Union and your Union leadership, players bear some responsibility for the situation we're in...

Soon we'll hear how he was misunderstood...or maybe it was too much time in the AZ sun...or perhaps it's just that his head still hurts.

Stick a cheesesteak in it, JR.

[puck_it]

JR was quoted as saying this at the same press conference, "The players won in 94, the owners in 05...when do the fans win?"

[Staal 12]

The fans don't ever win. We're just stuck right in the middle between millionaires fighting with billionaires. We just get what ever is thrown at us and hope our game will one day resume.

[Cool Hand Luke]

I've never been a huge fan of Roenick. He's a loudmouth braggert and I've never really been a big fan of loudmouths. Also I don't think that any publicity is necessarily good publicity like Mike Chen does but I think many people are getting overly upset about some of his words.

Will I refuse to watch a great movie like War of the Worlds because of idiotic words by Tom Cruise? Of course not, I'm watching it. Will I refuse to watch hockey because of a few idiotic words spoken by JR? No way, I'm there at the rink, but maybe booing him a bit louder than I have in the past.

What kind of bugs me about JR's interview is that not all of the interview is included on several sites. If you want to see the ENTIRE interview, go to

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/article.jsp?content=20050625_213504_5688

here are other words spoken by JR that don't seem to make most of the headlines...

Switching to the diplomat, Roenick furthered his comments by stating it is no longer about who won and lost, but it is now about making the game fan friendly. Roenick described how the NHLPA will ultimately give up more as a union "than any other in national sports" when a deal is reached, and that alone should bring the fans back.


"Now is the time we have to make it fun for the fans, we have deteriorated the game to an unfriendly position," said Roenick, who offered up his own solutions, "We might have won in '94, the owners will win in 2005, now let's make the fans win."

Generally opposed to the shrinking of goaltenders equipment, the Flyers' veteran believes fan-exciting changes must be implemented.

"No more ties, take the red line out ... institute an illegal defence maybe, but the number one change should be penalty shots at the end of the game, with the goals scored not going to stats, but to the win and loss column."

If sportwriters are going to quote someone, why not quote ALL of the interview? When he is speaking positively for the fans, that doesn't count as quotable material?

[raleighcanesfan]

The fans don't ever win. We're just stuck right in the middle between millionaires fighting with billionaires. We just get what ever is thrown at us and hope our game will one day resume.

Yep...a regular puck up the a-hole (or would it be the 5 hole?)

[puck_it]

Yep...a regular puck up the a-hole (or would it be the 5 hole?)

hmmm good question

or perhaps the 2 hole

[Staal 12]

Haha, they both work. Either way, the fans just get the puck thrown at 'em and take it as it comes.

[apolinar]

From JR's statements, he only wants to make the game more fun for fans who don't think they're spoiled. By his statements he doesn't even want me in the seats. Make the fans winners? Puhleeze. Close to the statement about making the fans winners was his statement about losing 7-8 million dollars next year with the new CBA and how much he is sacrificing for the fans. Did we forget about the multitude of players making only 300 to 500 grand a year for an average 4 year career and how much THEY are sacrificing? Nice try at diplomacy JR. You get my vote for NHLPA diplomat of the year. Someone who uses the word Bull$&!* a lot really knows how to create it. No matter how you spin it, it wasn't the place and time for JR to spout yet. Listen to Mario's interview from the same day and you'll see how to treat fans. I know lots of pittsburgh fans beaming at how much hope there is at the team staying just from Mario's reassurances, etc.

Really, what is JR trying to prove when in one sentence he says he's sacrificing 7-8 million, then later states he's not sure he's even coming back? Talk to me and tell me what you feel when you're certain about your future in hockey, and until then, don't blame fans for a sacrifice you didn't make yet.

The media campaign to get fans back should be simple. Both sides apologize. Then drop the puck. No matter what else JR said, he set the game back even further because he has alienated fans the NHL could not afford to lose. Stay away from the mike bozo until you've learned to respect the game and its fans better. I've vented enough. :evil:

[Staal 12]

Here's my take on his comments I posted on CH.com.

Same old stuff different day for Jeremy Roenick. He makes some good points, but some of his comments were absolutly... hilarious.


"If people are going to sit and chastise pro athletes for being cocky - for being suck asses - they need to look at one thing and that's the deal we're going to be signing in about three weeks,"


So Mr. Roenick, it took you and the rest of the NHLPA to sit back and lose a season of NHL Hockey to figure out that the deal you are about to sign in 3 weeks is making you look good? give me a minute so I can go bust a gut laughing. This about the NHLPA finally accepting what has been a negotiated deal with does not make you and the rest of the NHLPA look good you moron. It makes you all look like a bunch of clueless idiots for waiting this long to see the light at the end of the tunnel.




"Pro athletes are not cocky. Pro athletes care about the game. Everybody out there who calls us spoiled because we play a game - they can kiss my ass."


Well, it looks like i'll be kissing Roenicks ass. This one cracks me up. Roenick says that they "care about the game". Well than my question to anyone willing to answer it is why did you wait this long into the lockout, lose a full NHL season? I know why, the NHLPA did so because they thought they would crack the Owners union. Didn't happen. Then their hero Mr.Goodenow betrayed them by finally accepting a salary cap, which lost him all the trust and motivation he ever had with the NHLPA. So you sat out this long, trying to crack the Owners union so you could get what all you greedy "so called athletes that apparently care about the game" wanted, and that was a salary cap because apparently an athlete needs millions of dollars to make a living. My family doesn't make millions, but we make out just fine at that. Don't expect any to feel sorry for your stupidity. Sorry JR and the rest of the NHLPA but those $ signs really got to your heads on this one.

[nccanes]

The N/O has an article this morning from the Philly paper (presumably picked up everywhere, but I'm to lazy to go get it) talking about his comment being taken out of context. While I understand him being annoyed, did he really think that ESPN was going to run the entire interview on their Sports Center broadcasts? Right - lets take up 10 minutes of airtime for a player whose sport doesn't exist right now. No - instead, lets take the sensational part and bleep out his cussing. Is that supposed to be surprising?!

I agree that they were taken out of context (as tommy mentioned), but even in context, they don't really add up (as we've all stated). From the comments he made yesterday, it boils down to a reporter asking a question that pissed him off. He was asked about the fans "blaming" the players. While I understand that he's sick of being "blamed", when he was one that wanted to move things forward (yet, apologized to his brethren later) - but what Staal 12 said is true. JR can say that the NHLPA was wrong to hold out, JR can say that they should have accepted a cap sooner, but the fans can't? What's that about?

Like I said. He was annoyed and had a temper tantrum. What I'd give to see him at the NHLPA meeting (whenever that happens), lol. :beatup:

[Mona]

At this point, I blame both sides for this sports embarassment. I think it makes the sport and both sides look like a bunch of asses. In the big old hockey universe, the players and the owners suck.. they have the money and the power and will continue to use it.. good or bad.. the only ones that don't suck are us.. the ticket buying fans. Now sign the CBA and drop the puck you spoiled rich as*holes...

I would love to know what the NBA, MLB, and the NFL truly thinks about this whole mess.

I forgot to mention that I saw John F on WRAL this weekend. He was saying pretty much the same thing but he was stressing that when this thing is settled, the Canes BETTER put a good product on the ice. If they come out dazed and listless like I have seen them sooooo many nights, it will not be good!

[tommy]

Anybody see JR on ESPN a few moments ago talking with Dan Patrick? From what I heard, I think Roenick spoke well for himself, the players, and the sport. He said that he would never tell fans not to come back to the game, and that ESPN should have done a better job of portraying his comments - the entire interview, rather than a 1 minute clip at the end that was based on a negative question. I think he definitely wants a deal to be done and the game to be better, and I would have reacted the same way to the insinuation that it was the players' fault and that they were overly cocky. I'm not totally on the players side now (not by any means), but I gained a lot of perspective listening to JR talk. (It also helps that I don't care much for Dan Patrick, and he was fairly antagonistic during the spot a few moments ago - although I do know and respect the fact that it's his job to provoke (maybe that's not the best word) comments and get 'news-worthy' sound bits.)

On a side note, they bleeped out "ass" on the original interview, but not during the discussion a minute ago. I'm now convinced that the ESPN producers were just trying to make JR look bad by adding the melodramatic bleeps on the original response.

[hyena]

yeah i just saw JR on sportscenter. he came across a lot better than in the short clip, of course.

as for his comments...they don't really bother me. when it comes to JR, i look at his actions, not his words.

[apolinar]

Semi Quote from the ESPN interview, "I'd say the same thing personally to those fans all over again" when asked if he still felt the same about the fan who does feel those players are spoiled and to blame for the situation.

He came off better to a very minor degree, but still doesn't want me to come watch because of my opinion. Said he could have done it with different words, then says he wouldn't say it any different to fans who feel players are to blame. (I really know not to listen to him, but bottom line, JR STILL needs to keep it shut.) Spoiled brat. After 17 years he should know you can't afford to piss off any fans right now, no matter what their opinion on the lockout. He still feels fans who feel players are to blame for the length of the lockout or are spoiled shouldn't come to the arena. That interview did nothing for me except show he's whiney. He accomplished nothing in his argument with ESPN in my opinion.

[tommy]

Unfortunately, I have to disagree a lot. If someone is blaming the players for the entire debacle then heck, I don't want them to come back and watch either, because they certainly won't get anything out of the game anymore if that's still on their mind. JR is a loudmouth, but that doesn't change the fact that a whole lot of people are to blame. His entire interview up to the point in question was discussing how to make the game better for the fans, and to bring them back to the sport. And if people don't think that the players aren't the only ones to blame, then they're fooling themselves. At least JR has the balls to say that out loud unlike essentially the entire rest of the league, which won't even let anyone know how far they've gotten in CBA talks.

[apolinar]

So now there's a hierarchy of hockey fans? The ones who blame the right people and the ones who blame the wrong ones? And because I essentially have an opinion about the lockout and who I place more blame on, I'm not invited to keep my season tickets and am not wanted at the arena? (This is only debate by the way tommy so don't worry I'm not arguing with ya completely :) ). It's one thing to get through the CBA and make it better for all fans. But to alienate one set of fans because of their opinion, whether it be right or wrong? I think that's more wrong than anything, no matter what your opinion on who's to blame. That is the same argument that you hear in the U.S. "If you don't speak English get out of the country." "If you're not Christian you're not American." "If you're not Republican you don't deserve to be in politics." It's just a bad argument that we need to stop perpetuating whether it be through JR's mouth or not. I have every right to be at a hockey game to watch even if I feel the players are more to blame than the owners. My money is just as good as people of the other various opinions. I once had an opinion that my church needed to be more open to other cultures than just white people. I was told to leave and that I didn't belong and wasn't welcome. Uh, excuse me, but only God has the right to tell me where I don't belong.

For people of my opinion, I certainly can still get something out of the game. It's easy because hockey is a game where the most skilled, highest paid player can be neutralized by the players that aren't highly paid or spoiled. I can enjoy watching spoiled brats get checked and then watch 'em cry about it. Didn't we all boo primeau when we thought he was so spoiled and overpaid that he left our team? Cheer every hard check he got?

[puck_it]

cant we all just sing a song?

[ontheboards]

JR is not some innocent victim here. He has done enough press to know that the quickest way to a sound bite is to curse, get emotional and call names. He also knows better (or should know better) than to allow himself to be baited by a journalist. The guy's mouth got ahead of his brain and once again his good efforts and positive comments get nullified by his ego and now he's tap dancing.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I never booed Keith Primeau. :beatup:

It's all just a differing of opinions and values (the actual meaning of the word, not the way it's become politically distorted of late). I don't really care what they say most of the time. Anyone can sound bad in an isolated sound bite (or several isolated sound bites, as the case may be :D ). If someone had a camera on me 1/5 of the time these guys do I feel certain I'd come off like an a**.....a lot. I just can see why JR might feel as he said and we all know he speaks in ginormous hyberbole 98% of the time.

[ontheboards]

double post-- on an edit??

[ontheboards]

If this were some rookie or young kid making these comments, it would be one thing, but this is one of the top American players in professional hockey who is frequently called on the carpet for his emotional responses, whether it's on the ice or in front of the microphone. Once again, he's doing damage control for his behavior and comments...It's not always what's said, sometimes it really is about how it gets said. In this case, we have a repeat offender (in every sense of the word) who knows better but has yet to synthesize and apply that knowledge base and claims he is a victim of the press and his words were taken out of context. That may be true, but with this player he is protesting too much. JR let himself get baited, he reacted in a poor way and now is being held accountable for his comments. JR could have answered the question with the same message in a different manner and would have been far more effective in doing so, but ego and mouth got in the way...

Alas, this will be my last post on the subject-- JR and his comments aren't worth it-- let's play hockey already!

[nccanes]

I didn't get to see the JR/ESPN thing, but it's nice that they did give him (and hockey) more time. So despite my thinking his remarks were uncalled for and inaccurate, having hockey on ESPN at 6pm is a good thing, lol.

Anyway, I wish he'd just said "the question was ill timed, I'd already addressed my feeling about the lockout completely and the dude's question just annoyed me and I talked emotionally instead of rationally, especially at Mario's charity event". Or something like that.

The thing that is confusing to me is that if fans "blame" players for the lockout and now the players are caving so much that the deal the owners offered last year was better than what they'll end up with - um, doesn't that kind of imply that the players stubborness is indeed what kept them off the ice. Yes, I get that owners locked them out, allowed salaries to skyrocket, etc. But I think most people that "blame" players are just saying what he's saying - they should of negotiated last year.

I'm still confused about who is supposed to stay home, people that "blamed" the players for the lost season, or people who call them "spoiled" at any point in time, even the future.

It's just silly talk. I think Modano is a total jerk (for now anyway), I dislike Bryan McCabe because he said they'd hold out for the "rest of their lives before they accepted a cap" (:lol:), so do I stay home from Stars and Leafs games? Guess I don't have to worry about McCabe - he won't be playing apparently due to his deep held belief about a cap. :lol:

Oh well, hopefully more substantial things to talk about next week (or are we still in the perpetual "2 weeks" mode)?

[Mona]

I dislike Bryan McCabe because he said they'd hold out for the "rest of their lives before they accepted a cap" (:lol:), so do I stay home from Stars and Leafs games? Guess I don't have to worry about McCabe - he won't be playing apparently due to his deep held belief about a cap. :lol:



Now that is funny. I can see him now pushing his walker along saying "did they change their mind about that cap yet"!! :lol:

[apolinar]

The thing that is confusing to me is that if fans "blame" players for the lockout and now the players are caving so much that the deal the owners offered last year was better than what they'll end up with - um, doesn't that kind of imply that the players stubborness is indeed what kept them off the ice. Yes, I get that owners locked them out, allowed salaries to skyrocket, etc. But I think most people that "blame" players are just saying what he's saying - they should of negotiated last year.

I'm still confused about who is supposed to stay home, people that "blamed" the players for the lost season, or people who call them "spoiled" at any point in time, even the future.


Very well put. That's what has me so offended. The wording and language on this one not only is confusing, but his most specific and understandable statements have alienated me, joe blow hardcore hockey fan who is just as opinionated and sometimes as emotional as JR. He says we now have to "coddle" the hardcore hockey fan. Little does he know there is a strong percentage of hardcore hockey fans that actually do blame the players, and it has been more justified based on the questioning that nccanes just laid out. Why sacrifice so much if you didn't screw up the process of negotiation so much? If the owners were so wrong, why aren't they signing February's original offers which were better offers, and also had the benefit of Mario and Gretz at the table waiting for a firm negotiation on the issues?

Now that he's admitted that mistake, he is disinviting me from the arena, and people are jumping in behind him to agree? I don't care if he was baited into that statement. But he wasn't baited into it from Dan Patrick last night, and JR says he would say the same exact thing to my face.

Anyhow, I'm just arguing the side of us hockey fans that believe more blame can be placed on the players for the length of this lockout and that there are several spoiled players. I don't think that opinion should get me disinvited from anything, least of all the arena, especially when JR's own admittance of a better contract in February places some of the blame on the players. Thanks for the clarification nccanes.

[nccanes]

AP, I'm guessing JR's opinion is that the players are now caving and that proves just how swell they are. They are only doing so for the fan's sake, not because they demanded no cap, not because they need the money, so if we can't appreciate their generosity, then we should stay home and kiss his ass. Something like that.

I guess we really only need to worry if someone like Kevyn Adams got on camera and said "don't come, kiss my ass". Then we'd all be in trouble. :beatup:

[nccanes]

Y'all should read these two ESPN articles. They cracked me up. JR must be loving this attention. It's good to know there is some mileage being made out of it, guess it woulda sucked if he'd been the cussing soundbite and then nothing else.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=frei_terry&id=2096354

Would the NHL be happy if the Flyers' Jeremy Roenick had draped a towel around his neck and said in monotone: "When we're playing again, we have to give it 110 percent, finish our checks, take it one game at a time, and hope we don't run into a hot goaltender"? :lol: :lol:

Of course.

Because that's the NHL way, a mind-numbing, yawn-inducing phenomenon we grouse about all the time, yet encourage when we – public, media members and hockey insiders – overreact to isolated candor.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=ratto_ray&id=2096420

"Game On."

"Baseball Fever – Catch It."

"I Love This Game."

"This Time, It's For Real."

"We Got Game."

And now, "Kiss My A**."

[SoCalcaniac]

I dislike Bryan McCabe because he said they'd hold out for the "rest of their lives before they accepted a cap" ( :lol: ), so do I stay home from Stars and Leafs games? Guess I don't have to worry about McCabe - he won't be playing apparently due to his deep held belief about a cap. :lol:

OMG - That's the funniest damn thing written in this whole thread and nearly all of this lockout. ;) E- knows how much I 'love' Mr. McCabe :kiss: :roll:

And why aren't we hearing from Mr. Eloquent, uh Bryan McCabe these days? :angel: That's the funny thing (if you can call it funny) now all the dudes who had plenty to say have conveniently disappeared. So you have to give it to Roenick for saying something, even it is flat out stupid or better yet, ill advised.

I just finished watching the clip of Roenick on TSN- he was in damage control mode- and basically saying the same things he said to D. Patrick- at the end of the TSN interview he says, "come on back all fans, we need you" and he winks into the camera. My point here is JR is a big boy. Holy crap, if that dude isn't media 'savvy' then who the hell is? He should know better, and I guess the operative word is 'should' that going up to a live microphone and spewing in frustration is gonna generate this kind of open debate, chatter, etc.

I still like JR- always have, always will, but this speaking out deal, intended or not, was stupid- trying to do damage control is admirable I guess, but let it go JR...... LOL.

Terry Frei wrote a really good article on the aftermath of JR's comments on ESPN.com- funny we're analyzing his comments as if we're in the middle of the season or something..... here's the article for those who might want to check it out....
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=frei_terry&id=2096354

[nccanes]

Jinks SoCal!

LMAO - we both posted Frei's article at the same time.

:lol:

[SoCalcaniac]

Jinks SoCal!

LMAO - we both posted Frei's article at the same time.

:lol:


:laugh:

OMG E- it's becoming a reality and I'm not imagining things- my assertion that you and my hub should be joined at the hip is now manifesting to me!It's getting scary that we're all starting to think so similarly........ LOLOL!

We should be working right???? uh, yeah, yeah..... ;) LMAO.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Very well put. That's what has me so offended. The wording and language on this one not only is confusing, but his most specific and understandable statements have alienated me, joe blow hardcore hockey fan who is just as opinionated and sometimes as emotional as JR. He says we now have to "coddle" the hardcore hockey fan. Little does he know there is a strong percentage of hardcore hockey fans that actually do blame the players, and it has been more justified based on the questioning that nccanes just laid out. Why sacrifice so much if you didn't screw up the process of negotiation so much? If the owners were so wrong, why aren't they signing February's original offers which were better offers, and also had the benefit of Mario and Gretz at the table waiting for a firm negotiation on the issues?

Now that he's admitted that mistake, ........

Can I just point out again that JR was one of the players trying to convince the rest to sign the damn deal and give in in February? He didn't screw up the process of negotiating, he tried to keep the rest of the players from screwing it up and get everyone back to playing hockey. He tried to tell them at the time that the deal was only going to get worse. Maybe some haven't noticed but he doesn't tend to see the world much beyond his own nose so I'm sure when he hears "spoiled players" he thinks folks are talking about him. I think he's sick of being lumped in with the McCabe-like dumba**es and I don't blame him.

I guess I just don't care if I'm disinvited to the party or not. I don't need an invitation, I have tickets. :beatup:

But, you guys hate him if it makes you feel better about all this. At least someone is talking about hockey again, though.

[nccanes]

I haven't seen anyone talk about "hating" JR at all. :crazy:

I think we can disagree, or discuss his comments without hating him. Just like fans can disagree with the PAs stance or think most players are spoiled without giving up going to the games.

I can think of a big range of feelings about JR's comments, frustration, annoyance, disappointment, (as well as) humored, entertained and I think all of them have been described here. But nowhere did anyone pull out the word hate. I think the suggestion or implication or whatever is unfair.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I need to remember never to post something when I'm just checking in real quick. It never fails that when I throw out a thought really quick and don't think it through someone will see something that wasn't intended.

I should have used a smilie since I generally use the word "hate" pretty lightly when discussing hockey. Hockey isn't worth hating anyone over, clearly, but I like the gi-normous hyperbole just like JR. Pardon me to anyone who was offended that I might suggest you hate someone.

My point was, feel however about JR you need to (not that you need my permission, before someone points that out too) to make you feel better about the lock-out. He's a good one to focus some negative feelings on since he'll give you plenty of justification if you need it. I guess my other point was I'm bored with the topic. :beatup: I need someone else to be a dumba** so we have something else relevent to hockey to discuss!!

[nccanes]

Even though the topic of JRs quotes is obviously lockout related, I've split these posts out to their own thread. That way no one that is bored with it will have to bother with it when reading the other Lost Season/Lockout thread. :beatup:

I can't speak for anyone else who has made some critical comments about JRs quotes, but it doesn't make me feel better about the lockout and I'm not sure why or even how it could. Unless JR is saying that the lockout is over, he nor anyone else is gonna say much that makes me feel better about it.

We're just having a discussion about players' perception of fans and the fans' perception of players. :huh:

[apolinar]

There's no way I could hate JR more than the Red Dings or the leaves as a whole. I can hate his insensitive statements. I'm all for everyone enjoying hockey when this lockout ends, and I'm all for anything that brings more fans to the stands. I'm against anything that gets in the way. JR's comments got in the way, and THAT is what I hate. The lockout pissed off everyone badly enough, it takes a bozo to start getting offended and personal against ANY fan when the relationship with them is so fragile it's already shattered. :)

[SouthernHockeyChick]

We're just having a discussion about players' perception of fans and the fans' perception of players. :huh:

And I was just participating in that discussion. I'm not sure how I've offended you here. :huh: But I'll stay out of the thread now since I guess I've been disinvited.

[apolinar]

I guess I've been disinvited.

Heck, you haven't been disinvited. Isn't that what the whole argument is about regarding Roenick's comments? The NHL and all involved should be more open to opinions about the game and its players right now regardless of the standpoint taken. Nobody who has put anything into this game, (fan player owner security guard equipment manager coach lgc.comer or whatnot) should be censured or disinvited for any reason or opinion (but they darn well better think before they talk!). Nobody has called Roenick to end his career or to prevent him from ever playing because of his opinions and profanity. Nor has anyone told you to not be in this conversation. I, however, have been told that I am not welcome at the arena. I'm not the type of fan that should return.

I don't hate Roenick. I for certain would love to see him back on the ice instead of making newsworthy quotes because he's a player, not a diplomat. At the same time nobody should be disinvited from any hockey discussion/arena/game unless they are just being jerkos like the red wing fan who fell on my buddies during the SCF. If you're disinvited I can't debate with ya anymore. :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :eek2: :evil:

[nccanes]

We're just having a discussion about players' perception of fans and the fans' perception of players. :huh:

And I was just participating in that discussion. I'm not sure how I've offended you here. :huh: But I'll stay out of the thread now since I guess I've been disinvited.

I'm sure we're just out of the practice of having forum discussion that mean anything or something, but it seems like you were starting to make commentary on those of us critical of JR rather than his comments. No one said they hated him and no one said you offended them, no one said it makes them feel better about the lockout, so it's confusing that those are interjected into the discussion about JR.

And just for clarification, I split the thread as a favor to those like you who feel the discussion bores them, really. It's 3 pages on its own, so I thought it was a good idea. :huh:

If it doesn't bore you (or even if it does) everyone is welcome to comment.

[SoCalcaniac]

This is how I know we're ALMOST back to seeing live NHL hockey- This is like the first major "disagreement" - agree-to-disagree discord in MONTHS. I'm not bored with the Roenick chatter, and I don't feel like anyone's stepped out of bounds talking on this subject........... so for now, I'm just enjoying the back & forth chatter :beatup:

Now if we can only get to debating whether it's in the best interest of Team X to 'buy out' so and so' s contract so to free up cap space for the hot to trot young kid to get his shot or even better, just how bad it reallllly is gonna be for the Leafs since they're way over the cap and over the hill (LOL) - and what hot shot free agent D-man we can add to the Canes since I'm not so sure Frankie Kaberle is the answer to the loss of Sean Hill-- we'd be right back to the good old days of spirited debate! ;) :kiss:

[puck_it]

i havent read this thread... its got to be too depressing