Stakes high at Canes' meetings

[nccanes]

From the N&O today:

Stakes high at Canes' meetings
Carolina brass, others in Las Vegas to discuss No. 2 pick, No. 30 finish

By LUKE DECOCK, Staff Writer

Among the slot machines, roulette tables and blackjack pits of the Bellagio, the Carolina Hurricanes will be doing some gambling of their own this week.
There may not be a more fitting place for the Carolina Hurricanes' annual meetings than Las Vegas.
The stakes are stratospheric as the Canes sit down to make some of the biggest decisions since the team moved to North Carolina.

Namely, the Canes must figure out how to navigate the team out of its dismal 30th-place finish without spending any money. And they also must consider what to do about the biggest gamble of all: What to do with the No. 2 pick in the draft.

The Canes may have the most on the line of anyone wagering this week at the Bellagio, a luxury casino on the Strip.

"What we do in the first round could have a big impact on this franchise for a long time," general manager Jim Rutherford said. "Not necessarily an immediate impact, but two or three years down the road. This could impact this team for a long time."

And everyone will be there except owner Peter Karmanos. Rutherford, assistant general manager Jason Karmanos, scouting director Sheldon Ferguson, the coaches, the scouts. The Canes will arrive today and leave Sunday.

No. 1 on the agenda is the nine-round draft, which will be June 21-22 in Nashville.

The Florida Panthers won the draft lottery to jump ahead of the Hurricanes, but the Canes will have their choice of the rest of the best 18-year-olds in the world.

Much of the discussion will be focused on goalie Marc-Andre Fleury, a Quebec native who could be the next great goalie.

It's a huge risk to take a goalie that high. There's nothing certain about a goalie's development, which is why Martin Brodeur was picked 20th in 1990 and Patrick Roy 51st in 1984.

And the Canes don't have the kind of pure offensive talent available at No. 2 anywhere in their system. The franchise hasn't had a pick this high since it was the Hartford Whalers and took Chris Pronger second overall in 1993. Pronger was traded to the St. Louis Blues in 1995. The last top-10 franchise pick was Jeff O'Neill, fifth overall in 1994.

If the Canes don't take Fleury, there are plenty of teams who would like to trade into the Canes' spot to get him.

It's a deep enough draft -- the deepest in 10 years, most scouts think, with more than six players good enough to take first overall -- that the Canes might be willing to move down for the right price, but probably no lower than 10th.

There's more to the discussion than narrowing the field to the top players. The Canes also pick 31st overall and have three picks in the fourth round.

"We only had four picks last year," Ferguson said. "Now we've got five picks in the first four rounds. A lot of time will be spent on those, also. We understand the importance of the No. 2 pick, but we also understand there are a lot of good kids that we like."

Then there's the matter of that last-place finish. Though the Canes already re-signed Craig Adams, Jeff Daniels and Patrick DesRochers, players such as Kevin Weekes and Erik Cole still need contracts.

The Canes' top offseason priority remains restructuring a defense that proved wholly inadequate last season. This week, they'll decide whom to pursue and who might be available to offer in return.

And that's just the beginning. There's the matter of finalizing decisions that have been reached informally, such as what kind of training camp to have (small) and how to approach the preseason (seriously).

"We have a lot to talk about," Rutherford said. "These meetings will be longer, and I would suggest more important, than any we've had in the last five years."


Staff writer Luke DeCock can be reached at 829-8947 or ldecock@newsobserver.com

[MCAngel]

:angel:

[Kat]

Maybe I'm ill-informed (or just a bit bitter and sarcastic!), but could they have picked another place to have this big meeting other than Vegas?!? It just doesn't sound like a place where serious decisions are made. I hope they come up with a game plan and don't play rock paper scissiors to make important draft decisions! They said Cole and Weekes don't have contracts. Anyone know who else has to be signed this summer?

:angel:

That list can be found here: http://www.letsgocanes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116

And I agree... Hmm, we need to save money, so let's all go to Vegas. :roll:

-Kat

[Guyute]

Not just to Vegas, but the Bellagio?? :roll: :eek:

[Alicia]

Not just to Vegas, but the Bellagio?? :roll: :eek:

No sh*t! What was that about saving money again? Sheesh... :roll:

[talkingcanes]

Lots of businesses have annual meetings in Vegas. Not comparing my job to NHL bigwigs, but if my professional conference isn't held in an interesting place then I'm not going :spin: Now, that could just be me ;)

[Alicia]

Lots of businesses have annual meetings in Vegas. Not comparing my job to NHL bigwigs, but if my professional conference isn't held in an interesting place then I'm not going :spin: Now, that could just be me ;)

Interesting, yes, but the Bellagio is a tad over-the-top, IMO.

[talkingcanes]

as long as the result is a better Canes team next year, I honestly don't care where they meet.

[Guyute]

I think the point of contention is that they're all staying in rooms that are several hundred dollars a night. The Bellagio is the cream of the crop.

Stay at the Strat... much cheaper. fun rides on top... overlooking the whole town. oh, and much cheaper. lol

for those of you that have never seen it, or been there... here:
http://www.bellagio.com/

they're the ones who do the fantastic fountain show all the time... set to classical music. quite a cool sight with that monstrous hotel in the background. place is gorgeous.

"regular" rooms are usually $299/night. and I'm sure our guys are in suites.. :roll:

http://www.bellagio.com/images/nav/bel_gate_photo.jpg

[Alicia]

I think the point of contention is that they're all staying in rooms that are several hundred dollars a night. The Bellagio is the cream of the crop.

Stay at the Strat... much cheaper. fun rides on top... overlooking the whole town. oh, and much cheaper. lol

for those of you that have never seen it, or been there... here:
www.bellagio.com

they're the ones who do the fantastic fountain show all the time... set to classical music. quite a cool sight with that monstrous hotel in the background. place is gorgeous.

"regular" rooms are usually $299/night. and I'm sure our guys are in suites.. :roll:

phat-a** hotel pic here

Thanks guyute, my point exactly.

[talkingcanes]

Look, my point is that who knows what they are paying? In this economy maybe this hotel made it worth their while financially to take a floor of suites. Any group of big wigs is going to stay in a place I couldn't even begin to afford.

I don't mean to be argumentative about this. It just doesn't seem like a big deal to me, but I am in the midst of "vacation can't get here soon enough crankiness" so that could be it too ;)

[Guyute]

I'll chalk it up to your yearning for vacation (I'm in the same boat)... ;)

but there is no way you can argue that 30+ guys staying at the Bellagio is a fiscally sound decision. for f**k's sake, we're paying a minor league goalie 2.6 million dollars next year. We still have to sign Erik. AND solidify the defense. We just came off a horrendous year, and should be spending money on locking down a team that can get the job done.

I hardly think a week of playtime at The most expensive place in Vegas is what this organization needs to be doing.

but what do I care... I'm just a season ticket holder. Maybe beer prices will go up another $1 a cup. maybe parking will go up another $1 a car. :roll: :crazy:

[nccanes]

Yeah, the meet in Vegas part didn't phase me a bit. I'm sure it's a line item in the budget and has been for years. If they are dragging the players in from far-flung places in the off-season for 3 days of meetings, I'm sure they expect to be in accommodations that are comparable to what they stay in during the season.

I mean the Ritz-Carlton is no budget place, but they stayed there for several days this spring on a road trip.

If my old company was willing to fork out $200/night for me to attend a geek conference, seeing the Canes spend $300+ (if that's what it is) doesn't seem surprising....to me.

[Stormbringer]

Good afternoon, and welcome to The Money Programme. Today on The Money Programme, we're going to look at money. Lots of it. On film, and in the studio. Some of it in nice piles, others in lovely clanky bits of loose change. Some of it neatly counted into fat little hundreds, delicate fivers stuffed into bulging wallets, nice crisp clean checks, pert pieces of copper coinage thrust deep into trouser pockets, romantic foreign money rolling against the thigh with rough familiarity, beautiful wayward curlicued banknotes, filigreed copper plating cheek by jowl with tumbly ( ? ) rubbing gently against the terse leather of beautifully balanced bank books!! :evil:

Anyway, to just prove how much of a life I don't have AND out of curiosity, I just did the estimate math for the team, excluding the coaches and brass, staying in Vegas...since regular rooms are $299 per night, I would guess that the suites are around the neighborhood of $500 per night. According to the article, the Canes are staying in Vegas starting today, and are leaving Sunday...making for five days and five nights. Five times $500 is $2500. Now IIRC, the number of players on the team is around 25. So, 25 times $2500 is $62,500. Not quite as bad as you guys and gals are acting like it is...heck, that doesn't even match the lowest salary on the team. Of course, what I just came up with excludes the coaches, brass, and extra money for gambling, dining, shows, and possibly a round or two of golf. But even with all of that added in, it'll probably match nothing more than the lower salaries on the team, or worst case, a cool million.

So in conclusion, I obviously agree with TalkingCanes and Eileen on this matter... :)

[nccanes]

Also, with 25 guys that make nice NHL cash showing up in the Casinos when the meetings are over each day, they might have gotten a nice deal on those rooms after all. ;)

[talkingcanes]

I am a STH too :roll: I am not advocating they stay in this place. they could have met at the RBC for that matter. I'm sure it is way too much money and perhaps they should have given more thought to how it would appear. I still don't think it's a big deal.

Eileen, if my company was willing to fork over that kind of money for anything, I'd fall over (but not before I grabbed the funds) :)

[Alicia]

I'm not trying to be argumentative either (no really, I'm not! ;)). My point is, if the big wigs want to show their true concern over not only the physical make-up, but also the financial state of the Canes, then Las Vegas, and more specifically the Bellagio, is not the place to do it, IMVHO. But of course, they could also be trying to incorporate part of their summer vacation into this trip. :)

[Guyute]

But even with all of that added in, it'll probably match nothing more than the lower salaries on the team, or worst case, a cool million.

ahhhhhh.... I see. as long as this 5 day stay doesn't go over what a years' worth of salary is for one of our stars, it's ok. now there's some logic :crazy:

look folks, I'm not saying the guys should sit in the RBC center for 3 days straight. Of course they should get to do something cool. But... The BELLAGIO? come on.

[Turbulence]

Branson City is cheaper and much the same...they should have gone there :spin:
I do think it seems a bit excessive...the $500,000 that could potentially be saved by not staying at the Bellagio could put our offer on top of the heap for a good free agent. This money, whatever small amount it may be, can be included in a trade, or used to sign the much needed defensive help we need, so on and so forth. My point is, with the team in this state, we must concentrate our efforts and our provisions on getting the help we need, and dropping hundreds of thousands of dollars at a casino in Vegas isn't the way to do that...

[nccanes]

I don't think anyone is being argumentative! ;) Just the typical lgc.com discussion :).

I realize the Canes aren't financially steady, but when have they been? Haven't they shipped the whole lot of them down to South Florida each September for training camp? I would imagine that would easily eclipse the cost of this long weekend meeting. It appears they are rethinking that expense and might do training camp in Raleigh this year. Who knows, maybe that even factored into the decision to hold these meeting in Vegas (I don't know if/where/when these have been held in previous years).

Even the Westin in Atlanta has similar rack rates, so for 41 road games, they are forking out this type of dough on a lot of them.

[nccanes]

look folks, I'm not saying the guys should sit in the RBC center for 3 days straight. Of course they should get to do something cool. But... The BELLAGIO? come on.

Okay, using SBs approach, but I've upped it to 40 rooms. Let's say they saved $50/night at another hotel, they've saved a total of $10,000. Save $100/night? That's $20,000. Probably less than Jeff O'Neill will lose in the Casino. ;)

Nice hotels cost a lot of money. I simply can't imagine the team staying anywhere the rack rate is less than $250/night...ever.

[Stormbringer]

I don't think anyone is being argumentative! ;) Just the typical lgc.com discussion :).

I realize the Canes aren't financially steady, but when have they been? Haven't they shipped the whole lot of them down to South Florida each September for training camp? I would imagine that would easily eclipse the cost of this long weekend meeting. It appears they are rethinking that expense and might do training camp in Raleigh this year. Who knows, maybe that even factored into the decision to hold these meeting in Vegas (I don't know if/where/when these have been held in previous years).

Even the Westin in Atlanta has similar rack rates, so for 41 road games, they are forking out this type of dough on a lot of them.

look folks, I'm not saying the guys should sit in the RBC center for 3 days straight. Of course they should get to do something cool. But... The BELLAGIO? come on.

Okay, using SBs approach, but I've upped it to 40 rooms. Let's say they saved $50/night at another hotel, they've saved a total of $10,000. Save $100/night? That's $20,000. Probably less than Jeff O'Neill will lose in the Casino. ;)

Nice hotels cost a lot of money. I simply can't imagine the team staying anywhere the rack rate is less than $250/night...ever.

THANK YOU Eileen! I just don't see the big deal about the Canes meeting in Vegas...as others have said, it's not all that different from other corporations/organizations having their meetings there. Even if the Canes didn't stay at the Bellagio, I would expect them to stay at somewhere just as if not even more expensive like the Mirage or Mandalay Bay.

Then again, I'm a masked lunatic who apparently has ill logic, at least according to Guyute, so what do I know? With that said, carry on my fellow allies, regardless of our agreeing or not. ;)

[tommy]

Whoever said that it was probably a line item in their budget was right. They probably figured this whole trip into their budget a long time ago. I'm sure they didn't just say "Hey, how does the Bellagio sound to you guys?"

Nobody here has the position of knowing what the deal is, so instead of whining about them spending tons of money on hotel reservations, let's trust that the management knows how expensive the stay will be. I'm sure they're not that dumb.

Also, they probably aren't staying in the local Motel 8 when they are on the road; this probably doesn't sound as big to them as it does to us.

[Stormbringer]

A "THANK YOU!" to you too Tommy...your and Eileen's words are easily the best said on this matter. http://www.freeadpower.org/~mrsmiles/otn/wink/thumb.gif

[Cool Hand Luke]

First of all, I'm not going to begrudge the guys from going to the Bellagio. I mean, Jason Karmanos and Rutherford are multi-millionaires, they aren't going to stay at Bally's. Discounts are given for group rates and those considered "high rollers" get free suites, so it would be hard to determine exactly what they paid. Plus, they have a right to stay anywhere they want.

But, this is a perfect example of how we as fans, and the players can scoff at the "huge losses" claimed by NHL teams every year. I work in finance and I've seen first hand how one can legally cook the books to turn a profit into a loss. For instance, Pete Karmanos's salary is a business expense. Does he give himself and his son a bonus at the end of every year or even quarterly? I'd be very curious to see how much all of this is. The team jet, Pete's personal jet, travel expenses to where ever they may go..perhaps they go to Europe every year (or several times a year) and Hawaii on business trips for all we know. But for a business to show a loss every year is not a necessarily a bad thing. It's just a savings in taxes. One of my ex employers paid himself a huge salary, gave each member of his family an auto in the company name, took 3 or 4 long business trips per year, and showed a loss every year for the company. His salary was so high that personally he made enough money, so it didn't matter much what the business did as long as we could pay the bills. One year we got close to making a profit, so he paid himself a sizable bonus to insure the loss. Of course he was paying the taxes on his personal returns, but for whatever reason he seemed to prefer that. I'm not tax expert, so I can't tell you exactly why.

A privately held company has 100 times the flexibilty in accounting that a public company has. In other words, the SEC has no juristiction in a private companies' matters. The only way they can really get in trouble with their books is if they get audited by the IRS or if they owe a lot of money to a bank and the bank demands an audit.

The "appearance" with trips such as these, is that the Canes are not in such dire fiscal condition as they might claim. I'm sure other teams do the same thing and that's why I predict big trouble in the upcoming CBA next year. It would help if the owners would offer to open the books and show everyone where the losses come from, but we can't even see the books on the publically funded arena, we sure aren't going to see what Pete's salary and bonus structure is.

It does seem strange that the Canes showed another loss last year considering the long, unexpected run in the playoffs and even after all the extra arena and TV money was paid out. This doesn't count all the extra fees from the jersey sales and other merchandising. ( I saw a lot more Canes jerseys in the stands this past year and car flags all over the place). At the beginning of the year, did the Canes finance person make a budget anticitpating that they would be playing in the Stanley Cup Finals? Of course not. Something happened to all the extra money that came in, and I'm sure it didn't all go into the player's pockets.

[talkingcanes]

Does PK draw salary and bonuses from the Canes or from Compuware or both?

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Cool Hand Luke makes a great point...it's really hard to believe that Karmanos is losing money on this franchise when you combine the fact that he will not open the books with something like this trip to the Bellagio. I have one question though....where did you guys get the idea that the whole team would be there? I read the article this morning and didn't get the idea that the players would necessarily be there. They kept saying "the Canes" were meeting but does anyone know for sure that includes the players? Just wonderin'.

[Alicia]

Cool Hand Luke makes a great point...it's really hard to believe that Karmanos is losing money on this franchise when you combine the fact that he will not open the books with something like this trip to the Bellagio. I have one question though....where did you guys get the idea that the whole team would be there? I read the article this morning and didn't get the idea that the players would necessarily be there. They kept saying "the Canes" were meeting but does anyone know for sure that includes the players? Just wonderin'.

I interpreted it as Canes staff, sans players.

[Turbulence]

Thinking about it, the players are probably not there. What sense would it make to take players like Cole or Weekes who, God-forbid, might not be with the team next year, while at the same time have new players miss out on this meeting?
This is probably just for the upper-management of the team....and therefore is a bit more reasonable...

[nccanes]

You both are probably right. :D

I hesitated on this line....

And everyone will be there except owner Peter Karmanos. Rutherford, assistant general manager Jason Karmanos, scouting director Sheldon Ferguson, the coaches, the scouts. The Canes will arrive today and leave Sunday.


....this morning and I thought perhaps it meant players too. But on the 2nd read - the 2nd sentence seems to list out who will be there and "the players" are not mentioned. I suppose DeCock could have begun the 3rd sentence with "The Canes staff..." and it would have been even more clear.

So I guess we can relax, no 20-something extra rooms for the players and budget. :)

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Thinking about it, the players are probably not there. What sense would it make to take players like Cole or Weekes who, God-forbid, might not be with the team next year, while at the same time have new players miss out on this meeting?
This is probably just for the upper-management of the team....and therefore is a bit more reasonable...
And not only that but who exactly is a Cane these days? Is Svoboda a Cane? Heerema? Bayda? With all the injuries we had this year I can't figure out what the roster was and I doubt they are any better at it. I think it had to be staff only.

But, since the majority of them are rolling in it beyond anything any of us have ever dreamed of...how about they pay for their own digs at The Bellagio? I have to fork out the cash for my room at a convention I'm attending in July.

But then again....this trip might be an awfully nice perk for the folks we would try to lure into the organization....especially if the players are going too.

[talkingcanes]

I thought it was just management sans PK. Can't imagine getting the players away from their off season plans and locations so soon after the season.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Does PK draw salary and bonuses from the Canes or from Compuware or both?

He is listed as CEO of the Canes, on CH.com. Most CEO's are the highest paid employees of a company. (by far). Hockey teams might be different, but I would be shocked if he didn't have a sizable salary from both Compuware and the Canes. How much from the Canes is the question of the day.

Also, just want to make clear that I feel most CEO's have the right to whatever salary they see fit. Afterall, Pete is the owner and he has the right to pay himself anything he wants to. It just bugs me to have him and other owners whine about losing money all the time without opening the books to prove their point.

[netminder]

I spent my Summer Vacation Money last year on my season tickets.

I'm glad someone is getting a vacation out of them.

Funny thing is the same day this was on the paper, there was another article in the paper listing our area as one of the best place's in the country to do business.

It's a shame Gale Force Holdings has to go out of the area on a gambling junket to do theirs.

The whole thing smells.

[Shell]

all perspective I guess. We spent this years savings from no playoff games on a vacation for us..

[talkingcanes]

all perspective I guess. We spent this years savings from no playoff games on a vacation for us..

agreed, Shell. I don't take the same kind of vacations I did in my pre-Caniac days. I choose to spend my "hobby/vacation" money on hockey with no regrets and with optimism for next season :beatup:

[nccanes]

Column from the Las Vegas SUN:

May 15, 2003

Columnist Ron Kantowski: Hurricanes discuss draft in Las Vegas
Ron Kantowski is a Las Vegas Sun sports writer. Reach him at ron@lasvegassun.com or (702) 259-4088.


•••
If, indeed, this is the most important team meeting in the history of the organ-I-zation, as they say in hockey, it makes you wonder why the NHL's Carolina Hurricanes chose the Bellagio in Las Vegas as the site for it, rather than say, the Erie, Pa., Holiday Inn.

If I were a CEO and business really was more important than pleasure, I'd always schedule staff meetings where you don't feel a need to bring along golf clubs. You know, just in case the meetings adjourn in time to fit in a quick nine.

"But this time, I didn't bring my golf clubs," said Jim Rutherford, the president and general manager of the Carolina Hurricanes, who are here through Saturday.

"We always have our annual meeting before the (NHL) draft at the end of June. It's a long year for people who work in sports, with a lot of travel involved away from families. This is a chance for our scouts to bring their wives somewhere other than Raleigh."

Can't say I blame them there. I mean, if you've seen one tobacco leaf, you've seen them all. Some of the nation's best truck drivers recently met in Raleigh to show area residents how to safely navigate the city. But I don't think the resort owners in Hilton Head are getting nervous just yet.

Besides, given the year the Hurricanes had, who came blame Rutherford and company for wanting to get away for a few days?

Just one year after losing to the Detroit Red Wings, the next-best team money can buy (after the Yankees) in the Stanley Cup final, the Hurricanes were reduced to a harmless zephyr this season. Beset by injuries and underachieving forwards, Carolina struggled to a 22-43-11 record. The Hurricanes' paltry 61 points ranked 30th in the NHL.

In the event you haven't kept up with expansion into the USA Sun Belt, that's dead last.

"It's really not anything you could put your finger on," said Rutherford, just the latest big-time hockey person to return a phone call to a reporter he has never met.

(That's the great thing about hockey. You don't have to be Dickie Dunn to get somebody to call you back.)

"Last year, we played into June, and I think the short off-season hurt our players. There was only a very short time to get ready before the first day of training camp. And then there's so much parity in the league."

If you don't believe it, just look who's still playing in the Western Conference final -- upstarts Anaheim and Minnesota.

"And we did it last year, although you couldn't really call us an upstart," Rutherford said.

But the Hurricanes are the former Hartford Whalers. That's worse than being an upstart, when respectability is the goal.

Had Carolina shown just a little more patience with Jean Sebastian-Giguere, the goalie who has become the hottest thing to hit Anaheim since the Rally Monkey, maybe Carolina would still have it. It was the Hurricanes who drafted Giguere out of juniors but finally wound up trading him to Calgary for gritty veteran Gary Roberts before the 1997 season.

"Usually with a goalie, it takes 2-5 years to develop," said Rutherford, who used to be one, having spent 13 seasons with the Penguins, Maple Leafs, Kings and Red Wings. "With Giguere, it was 2-7."

Giguere's name most likely will be referenced during the Hurricanes' skull sessions in Las Vegas, as Carolina is contemplating using the second pick in the draft to select the man who may be his second coming, fellow Quebec native Marc-Andre Fleury.

Most hockey people believe drafting a goalie that high is risky. That's why Martin Brodeur lasted until the 20th round in 1990 and Patrick Roy until the 51st round in 1984. I think that was two rounds after somebody picked Denis Lemieux, the goalie for the Charlestown Chiefs in "Slap Shot."

But if the Hurricanes decide to gamble on a net minder, at least they picked the right town in which to discuss it.

[talkingcanes]

well, it did mention tobacco and manage to be slightly condescending :roll: , but made some fair points too.

[Alicia]

And I see some of us weren't the only ones questioning the choice location, either. :roll:

[nccanes]

I took his question of the locale an opportunity to point out how crappy the Canes were last year and how boring Raleigh is, rather than commentary on where they were spending their money.

[StormShaman]

Pfff. It's some dink in Vegas that--again--didn't bother doing his research or even proofing his damn argh-ticle.

20th round? 51st round? Hello? Last I checked, the NHL Draft had 9 rounds.

Shee. That article's not even worth the electrons the guy wasted to write it--I wouldn't get too bent outta shape.

[tommy]

Did it get interesting after the halfway point? I stopped reading. :mad:

[SouthernHockeyChick]

What an idiot. :roll:

51st round in the draft....that is hilarious.

[caniac369]

With all their money they can go to Vagas for their own vacation. I say send them on outward-bound or some other sort of outdoor camping type thing... and send DeCock with them to feed him to the bears... :D