What JR should of done...

[Staaller]

Unlike good GM's JR is not...

What should JR of done to get Fleury which he wanted instead of settling for second best?

JR should of played poker and bluffed dudley.

JR should of found out which teams were interested in what. ie. Florida wanting Horton from the start.

JR should of talked to the media and hyped up to everyone that he was interested in picking up Horton. This would scare dudley into keeping his number 1 pick and selecting horton, leaving fluery and Staal still open.

What did dudley do? he opened his phones to offers from every team and asked every team what they wanted to get a good feel of what they were going to pick. This includes scouting GM JR for his desired pick. Dudley figured JR was locked on Staal, he wanted Horton and was open to offers for the first pick.

Poor JR lost another game at poker. When will this GM and its fans ever learn about the politics of hockey.

Fluery aka next ROY.....


CP

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Unlike good GM's JR is not...



JR is not unlike good GMs, huh? Now that's more like it. Good to hear you drop your jeering of us and say something nice!

[Shell]

we already have what appears to be a great, young goalie in Cam Ward. He has carried a 0.67 goals-against average and a .976 save percentage in the playoffs. He was our first round pic from last year. We need a young playmaking center, especially if he truly is a young Ronnie Francis.. how fitting would that be now that Ronnie is getting older?

[Shell]

Unlike good GM's JR is not...



JR is not unlike good GMs, huh? Now that's more like it. Good to hear you drop your jeering of us and say something nice!

indeed SHC, at least the boy has some sense.. he did win the award for best GM last year after all.

[guinevere]

I couldn't agree with you more. In my opinion, the key to a strong team is building it - not buying it. Even though the Wings have beaucoups of bucks 11 of their reat players were drafted and quite a few others were trades - not free agents. It only was after they became successful that the salaries started to go through the roof. Add the once in a lifetime coaching of Scotty Bowman and you have the team that did so well since 1995. Now Scotty's gone and the revenue from the extended season is gone and uh oh - here comes the CBA- what will happen next?

Guin

[tommy]

Unlike good GM's JR is not...

What should JR of done to get Fleury which he wanted instead of settling for second best?

JR should of played poker and bluffed dudley.

JR should of found out which teams were interested in what. ie. Florida wanting Horton from the start.

JR should of talked to the media and hyped up to everyone that he was interested in picking up Horton. This would scare dudley into keeping his number 1 pick and selecting horton, leaving fluery and Staal still open.

What did dudley do? he opened his phones to offers from every team and asked every team what they wanted to get a good feel of what they were going to pick. This includes scouting GM JR for his desired pick. Dudley figured JR was locked on Staal, he wanted Horton and was open to offers for the first pick.

Poor JR lost another game at poker. When will this GM and its fans ever learn about the politics of hockey.

Fluery aka next ROY.....


CP

Corrections:

1) It's "should have", not "should of"
2) It wouldn't have mattered anyways, because Horton was number 1 on Florida's list, Staal was number 1 on Carolina's list. Pittsburgh wanted to guarantee Fleury just in case Florida decided to take Fleury for some reason. It was a pointless trade.
3) Calling Fleury the next Roy is insane right now. Blackburn and DiPietro had unfair expectations put on them, and neither one has done much yet.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Hey Guin....there's a thing in my most recent Hockey News that sorta supports your point about the Wings. In 1998 (their last Cup win before last year) their salary was only 28.4 million....that was still ranked 9th in the league. Last year, after they had to keep all those players and buy new ones since they weren't winning the Cup every year, their payroll was #1 at 64.4 million.

[Staaller]

Unlike you, i've get to watch the ohl, qmjl, whl and all chl games.
I've also seen all wjh games.

Fluery is the real deal and pitts knows it. The last first round picks by pitts were hmmm... let me see...


1. Lemieux
2. Jagr
3. Fleury

lol @ blackburn and dipietro stupid comment.

None of them were ranked number 1 by all 3 major scouting networks.

dipetro was ranked 12th

and the islanders under mike milbury who is a terrible GM only picked DiPietro because he was an amerikand and wanted to impress the new owners.

Dany Heatly was ranked number 1 and was passed up. That shows how much you know about hockey dude.

Edited by crazy. Play nice or don't play at all.

[guinevere]

Hey Guin....there's a thing in my most recent Hockey News that sorta supports your point about the Wings. In 1998 (their last Cup win before last year) their salary was only 28.4 million....that was still ranked 9th in the league. Last year, after they had to keep all those players and buy new ones since they weren't winning the Cup every year, their payroll was #1 at 64.4 million.

Hmmmm, I'll bet I can use that information again somewhere.... thanks Ang-

Guin

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Dany Heatly was ranked number 1 and was passed up. That shows how much you know about hockey dude.


He probably knows enough to spell Dany Heatley's name correctly. :roll:

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Hey Guin....there's a thing in my most recent Hockey News that sorta supports your point about the Wings. In 1998 (their last Cup win before last year) their salary was only 28.4 million....that was still ranked 9th in the league. Last year, after they had to keep all those players and buy new ones since they weren't winning the Cup every year, their payroll was #1 at 64.4 million.

Hmmmm, I'll bet I can use that information again somewhere.... thanks Ang-

Guin

Let me know if you need more....they have the Cup winners and finalists payrolls for the past 10 years.

[hyena]

Unlike you, i've get to watch the ohl, qmjl, whl and all chl games.
I've also seen all wjh games.
you're one dedicated dude. http://www.electrichyena.com/other/redthumb.gif

i think JR made the right decision on this one, but i guess we'll have to wait and see.

http://www.electrichyena.com/other/headbrick.gif

[Jeff O Rocks]

There are things that JR has done and I am sure will do that I don't agree with...but I think going for a offensive-minded player as opposed to another goalie, I think he made the right choice.

[Ramhorn]

I think our new friend Staaler is a little disappointed Eric Staal will be playing in Carolina.

Very happy to see us land this pick.

I believe Staal has the potencial to anchor this organization for years to come.

We got him for the next 8+ years. :smoke:

[tommy]

Unlike you, i've get to watch the ohl, qmjl, whl and all chl games.
I've also seen all wjh games.

Well then why do you bother talking to us? You're obviously a lot smarter!

P.S. Well then what about Kari Lehtonen... 2nd overall pick last year, and he isn't an NHLer yet. It takes time... Fleury wouldn't walk in here and bring us a Cup... he couldn't do that for any team.

[tommy]

That shows how much you know about hockey dude.

I've been following hockey competently for about three years. Excuse me for not being an expert.

[stewart123]

Skipping the various misspellings and incorrect grammar..

1. JR didn't want Fleury, he wanted Staal. None of the jockeying by other teams was being done in order to get Staal, so sitting tight at #2 was an excellent non-move. Florida certainly gets credit for picking up a free player, however.

2. There are 16 teams in the CHL who play 64 games. You saw all 512 games? Sure about that?

3. The last first round picks by Pittsburgh were not Lemieux, Jagr, and Fleury. They were Hillier, Dome, Kraft, Koltsov, Orpick, Armstrong, Whitney, and Fleury. Unless you meant first selections of the first round by Pittsburgh, and then you're still wrong, because Jagr was 5th overall in 1990.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Hey Staaler, if you're still out there.

There's only one thing sweeter than a kid from Toronto playing for the Leafs. That's a kid from Toronto beating the Leafs in the Conference Finals in the ACC, Just ask Jeff O'Neill!

;)

[Jeff O Rocks]

Hey Staaler, if you're still out there.

There's only one thing sweeter than a kid from Toronto playing for the Leafs. That's a kid from Toronto beating the Leafs in the Conference Finals in the ACC, Just ask Jeff O'Neill!

;)

Good response Cool....that is why he is pissed to begin with...because he wanted Staal to be a Leaf...and O belongs to us too!! :D ;)

[Stormbringer]

Hey Staaler, if you're still out there.

There's only one thing sweeter than a kid from Toronto playing for the Leafs. That's a kid from Toronto beating the Leafs in the Conference Finals in the ACC, Just ask Jeff O'Neill!

;)

(impersonates Dick Dastardly's dog) http://www.freeadpower.org/~mrsmiles/otn/wink/thumb.gif

[StormShaman]

Corrections:

1) It's "should have", not "should of"
2) It wouldn't have mattered anyways, because Horton was number 1 on Florida's list, Staal was number 1 on Carolina's list. Pittsburgh wanted to guarantee Fleury just in case Florida decided to take Fleury for some reason. It was a pointless trade.
3) Calling Fleury the next Roy is insane right now. Blackburn and DiPietro had unfair expectations put on them, and neither one has done much yet.

gg tommy (http://www.letsgocanes.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=53) ;)

[puckin_A]

personally I wanted JR to pick Fleury. He has been rated as the best
goalie in the draft in ten years. Great goalies win Stanley Cups. It's
always a crapshoot, but he sounds for real. Will he be?? who knows.
We will find out when he kicks out butts (or not). I think that JR wanted
Staal but might have picked Fleury if he was still available. However,
he didn't. And the more I read about Staal, the more I like this kid. I
am looking forward to him having a great future with our club.

[puckin_A]

Skipping the various misspellings and incorrect grammar..

1. JR didn't want Fleury, he wanted Staal. None of the jockeying by other teams was being done in order to get Staal, so sitting tight at #2 was an excellent non-move. Florida certainly gets credit for picking up a free player, however.

2. There are 16 teams in the CHL who play 64 games. You saw all 512 .

I think JR would of picked Fleury if Staal was gone in the 1st pick.

[Kat]

I think JR would of picked Fleury if Staal was gone in the 1st pick.

I think that JR would have picked Fleury as well, and I for one am quite glad that he didn't have the chance.

-Kat

[stewart123]

I'm not sure why you quoted my post, and then created a different scenario.

The original poster said JR should have bluffed Florida into taking Horton. The choice, for the purposes of my response, is whether JR would have picked Fleury if both Staal and Fleury were available. I said, 'JR didn't want Fleury, he wanted Staal."

[Kat]

The original poster said JR should have bluffed Florida into taking Horton. The choice, for the purposes of my response, is whether JR would have picked Fleury if both Staal and Fleury were available. I said, 'JR didn't want Fleury, he wanted Staal."

And I was disagreeing... I think that JR would have picked Fleury. No offense, just a different opinion.

-Kat

Edited to say, that I am glad he did not pick Fleury... it was just what I thought he would do if Fleury had been available.

[Caniac1]

JR made the right decision—Carolina grabs staal.

And by the way, some people thought Ilya Kovalchuk will be the next Wayne Gretzky. And on the subject of Gretzky, some thought his little brothers would be better than him. Some thought that Patrick Roy would never make it to be a starter in the NHL. Pavol Demitra was drafted 227th in the same year the Alexandre Diagle was drafted 1st—and by the same team.

Fluery may become the best goalie ever. But it's way too early to say that he's the nexy Roy. Especially with Trevor Kidd (who went ahead of Martin Brodeur and Keith Tkachuk) and Rick DiPietro (who went ahead of Dany Heatley and Marian Gaborik).

[stewart123]

I think JR would of picked Fleury if Staal was gone in the 1st pick.

Puckin_A thinks JR would have picked Fleury over Horton, Vanek, etc. I happen to agree. But it's not the situation that I made my original post about (Staal over Fleury), and quoting someone else's post offers the impression that you're either arguing, agreeing, or explaining it. In this case, none of the above apply.. it's a totally different question.

Kat's posting, on the other hand, does directly relate to my earlier post.. I believe that JR would have selected Staal even if Fleury was available. Kat believes JR would have selected Fleury over Staal.

"We like both players (Fleury and Staal) but we did have Eric rated No. 1," said Carolina President / General Manager Jim Rutherford.

JR has struck me as one of the most honest and straight-talking gentlemen in a management position of a sports franchise that I've ever heard from. So I, for one, will take him at his word.

[Kat]

"We like both players (Fleury and Staal) but we did have Eric rated No. 1," said Carolina President / General Manager Jim Rutherford.

JR has struck me as one of the most honest and straight-talking gentlemen in a management position of a sports franchise that I've ever heard from. So I, for one, will take him at his word.

And that is your right.

I, however, have heard him say that he wasn't trading any players anytime soon and then make a trade within a week. He is management... unfortunately (says bitter laid-off me), they lie, omit, stretch the truth.... sometimes whether they want to or not. Anyhow, all we get is the media's edited or out-of-context comments, which are probably most often not the whole story.

-Kat

Edited for clarification.

[stewart123]

I, however, have heard him say that he wasn't trading any players and then make a trade within a week. He is management... unfortunately (says bitter laid-off me), they lie.... sometimes whether they want to or not.

Your example isn't a lie, it's a change in situation or condition.

A lie would have been for him to have just completed a trade, and then state that no trade occurred. As you are suggesting he lied about the draft, post-hoc.

[Kat]

What is he supposed to say? I would have taken Fleury? Staal sucks? I would expect management of anything to say that they planned on doing whatever they had done, post-hoc. Otherwise it either sounds like sour grapes or like they didn't get what they want... neither one of which is probably they want to be projected to the public.

-Kat

[StormShaman]

JR has struck me as one of the most honest and straight-talking gentlemen in a management position of a sports franchise that I've ever heard from.

As an old German prof of mine used to say: "Jein."

JR's a poker player. He'll keep his cards close to his vest and bluff, and not show his hand until he feels the time is right.

Is he a liar? Not exactly. He'll stretch the truth, mislead, and keep people guessing far more often than he'll come right out and give you the straight scoop--but that's part of his yob.

So I, for one, will take him at his word.

You're fooling yourself if you do that. Just my 2 cents.

[stewart123]

You're fooling yourself if you do that. Just my 2 cents.

I'll try to keep the concept in mind that I'm fooling myself believing the Canes wanted Staal, despite a lack of evidence to the contrary, and mounting evidence that supports the idea.

“For the future of our franchise Eric Staal was the best fit for us,” Rutherford said. “If we would have been picking first overall, Staal would have been the guy we were taking. There are a lot of good players in this draft, but in our view Eric Staal has the biggest upside.”

"Based on what he's done so far in his young hockey career it's not unrealistic to think that he'll have big production in the National Hockey League," Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford said. "We like everything about him. This is almost like us winning the lottery. He's a big guy with great character and with a high skill level." Rutherford said he had no interest in moving up to acquire the top pick from Florida. Pittsburgh did and took goalie Marc-Andre Fleury.

Most NHL scouting services rated Staal the No. 1 prospect in the draft. Carolina general manager Jim Rutherford said the Hurricanes would have picked Staal with the first pick had they had it.

Pre-draft:

The Carolina Hurricanes, in need of goaltending help following a
disastrous first-to-worst season, own the second overall pick.
But general manager Jim Rutherford declared Thursday he has no
intentions of trading up.

[stewart123]

What is he supposed to say? I would have taken Fleury?

Okay, let's play this out, and see if it makes sense. You're JR, and you're sitting at #2. You want Fleury. Florida is actively and loudly offering the #1 pick to most teams in the top part of the draft, some of whom are known to be interested in Fleury.

What would you do? Stand pat at #2, while the #3 team offers a 3rd line right winger? Does that action satisfy your desire to draft Fleury?

That's what Rutherford did. If you believe he wanted Fleury, then it's up to you to show that course of action made sense.

Or you could say JR's a liar AND an idiot.