Avalanche Sign Kariya and Selanne

[Turbulence]

TSN.ca Staff

7/3/2003

While other teams have been practicing financial restraint in the early days of the free agent season, the Colorado Avalanche have broken the bank, signing superstars Teemu Selanne and Paul Kariya. Both were unrestricted free agents.

The move re-unites Selanne and Kariya, who were linemates with the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim from 1994 until March 2001 when Selanne was traded to the San Jose Sharks.

The Avalanche will make the official announcement at 4pm et.

Colorado was expected to be shopping for a goaltender this off-season after future Hall-of-Famer Patrick Roy retired. Instead, the Avs made a bold move to add more weapons to an already potent offence.

Kariya has scored 300 NHL goals and totaled 669 points in 606 games. After scoring just 25 goals and 81 points last season, Kariya did not receive a qualifying offer from the Ducks, who deemed his $10 million price tag to be far too high.

Selanne has 436 goals and 919 points on 801 career NHL games. He scored 28 goals and 64 points last season with the Sharks, and San Jose decided that was not enough production for $6.5 million a year.


:eek:

[guinevere]

Sooooooo, what are they going to do about goaltending since Roy retired. Though I did hear a tiny little rumor about him coming back after the first of the year. Sounds like they've blown their allowance.

Guin

[StormShaman]

If I were DucksFan I would be irate right now. Seriously. Murray's doing the exact same thing he did in Florida--dismantling a team that just made a big-ass Cup run for spare parts OR the compensatory picks that come when somebody signs a UFA.

The Ducks are buggered for years to come, thank you Bryan Murray.

[Turbulence]

Yea the Ducks are screwed with their captain gone, Oates gone, Sykora, LeClerc, and Havelid UFAs...talk about the dismantling of a team...

Meanwhile, Colorado will be unstoppable next year even with the mediocre goaltending of Aebischer...I shudder to think about their offensive firepower now...

[Guyute]

well, that's quite interesting.

poor ducks. looks like they're going for the #1 draft choice next year.

I must disagree with Turby though... I don't think I'd say Abs is a mediocre 'tender. he's been quite impressive for a couple of years as a backup. Who knows what he's capable of once he's given the #1 spot from the start. I look forward to it.. I've always liked him.

and yes, CO will likely put up some scary #'s with those 2 additions.

[Shell]

Bates is a restricted free agent.. wonder if they will re-sign him?

[Turbulence]

I don't think I'd say Abs is a mediocre 'tender. he's been quite impressive for a couple of years as a backup. Who knows what he's capable of once he's given the #1 spot from the start.
You're right...I guess you never know when someone is given the starting job...but I make that comment only because his numbers really fell off last year compared to his two prior years as Roy's backup. But I guess the possibilities are limitless when you have a guy fighting for the starting job compared to his performance as the backup to the best goalie ever...

But based on last years numbers, I'd say lukewarm at best.

But it doesn't matter. I could be playing goal for the Avs and they'd win because they have so many good scorers...then again the same thing could be said about the Rangers...

[Turbulence]

An NHL source said Kariya, who played with the Anaheim Mighty Ducks last season, agreed to a $1.2 million contract

1.2? 1.2? We could have had him for that! Guess he really wanted to hoist a cup...

[Shell]

he probably also told them they had to get Selanne. That is amazing though.. I guess those in anaheim are even more pissed now!

[guinevere]

Selenne took a paycut as well...I believe its 5.8 mil. (Man, i"d take a pycut like that)
Guin

[Guyute]

1.2 for Kariya? wow. wonder what kind of house he got as a "bonus".

[StormShaman]

Dude.

The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse just came knocking at my door to beg donations for the Firemen's Benevolent Fund.

The End is freaking NIGH, people. Seriously.

[nccanes]

Those poor Duck fans. At least last year we were still enjoying a little post-season buzz and looking forward to next season. :eek2:

Well, I suppose we were all waiting for the big UFAs to start signing.

[crazy4canes]

Ducks fans must be forming an angry mob as we speak. :eek2:

[MCAngel]

:angel:

[Kat]

I have one word on this subject: Poo.

-Kat

[guinevere]

On the bright side, at least they didn't go to the Wings (not much of a bright side but work with me people)

Guin

[Alicia]

Bates is a restricted free agent.. wonder if they will re-sign him?

I also wondered what this would mean for him & the Avs' other RFAs.

[crazy4canes]

I have one word on this subject: Poo.

-Kat

Nice job keeping it family-friendly Kat. http://websmileys.bei.t-online.de/div20.gif :D

But I agree. Definitely poo. Who do the Ducks have that can take Kariya's place right now? Nobody.

[guinevere]

I thought this was rather interesting...
Paul, Teemu, Peter, and Joe all have the same agent. Don Baizley. Bet there was some very interesting discussion going on the last few days.

Guin

[nccanes]

I thought this was rather interesting...
Paul, Teemu, Peter, and Joe all have the same agent. Don Baizley. Bet there was some very interesting discussion going on the last few days.

Guin

Nice find Guin.


And darn, isn't it slim chance to play them at home next season?

[Alicia]

There you go, Eileen...rain on my parade. :sad: :cry: http://wemissjerry.org/smiles/depressed.gif

[nccanes]

Sorry BatesB. I hope they do, but it seems kinda unlikely - isn't this the season where they've increased the number of division/conference games?


BTW, there is an interesting thread at Fanhome (http://insiders3.ezboard.com/fcarolinacanesfrm1.showMessage?topicID=1605.topic) that discusses Kariya's low salary as an attempt to allow him to be a group V UFA agent next summer. Interesting stuff.

[guinevere]

And darn, isn't it slim chance to play them at home next season?

Well I guess we'll just have to meet them in the playoffs to bring them here. If nothing else but for BatesB's sake. ;)

Guin

[Alicia]

And darn, isn't it slim chance to play them at home next season?

Well I guess we'll just have to meet them in the playoffs to bring them here. If nothing else but for BatesB's sake. ;)

Guin


Boy, that would be nice, but tough on me & my loyalties, ya know? I would love to see Kariya & Selanne play on our ice, though.

[RIO]

all I can say to the recent turn of events is WOW.... :eek2: .....

[talkingcanes]

An NHL source said Kariya, who played with the Anaheim Mighty Ducks last season, agreed to a $1.2 million contract

1.2? 1.2? We could have had him for that! Guess he really wanted to hoist a cup...

I'll go out on a limb here and say there is no way in hades he would play in Raleigh for 1.2 million!! I think that's a special offer for Denver which included Selanne and whatever else regarding the free agency status at the end of next year.

[Jillsdad]

First thing, there is only one puck and to have that many superstars on one team can breed jealousy and contempt. What I find interesting is nobody is raising hell like they would have if the Rangers had done this same thing, why is that? I distinctly remember many people blowing a fricking gasket when the Rangers traded i repeat TRADED for Bure and Kovalev and basically gave up nothing, yet nobody is saying a bad word when Pierre LaCroix does the same crap with the Avs. Why is that? Signing Kariya for 1.2 million is like the Rangers trading Mikael Samuelsson to the Pens for Kovalev.(not paying what they are worth)
I just don't understand why there is not the outrage like there is with the Rangers when it is the same thing!!!!!

[Jeff O Rocks]

Dang..what a surprising turn of events....The Avs will be loaded next season....hope they can find a spot for Bates....or give him back to us! ;) The Ducks don't have much left, except for Jiggy....looking very dismal!! :sad:

[Shell]

Don't count their eggs to early.. they still need to sign Giggy. He's restricted but it is no done deal yet.

[Jeff O Rocks]

Don't count their eggs to early.. they still need to sign Giggy. He's restricted but it is no done deal yet.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm!!! With all that has happened, I wouldn't be surprised to see him jump ship too......think we could land him on the Canes' deck!!??? :eek: :crazy: ;)

[nccanes]

First thing, there is only one puck and to have that many superstars on one team can breed jealousy and contempt. What I find interesting is nobody is raising hell like they would have if the Rangers had done this same thing, why is that? I distinctly remember many people blowing a fricking gasket when the Rangers traded i repeat TRADED for Bure and Kovalev and basically gave up nothing, yet nobody is saying a bad word when Pierre LaCroix does the same crap with the Avs. Why is that? Signing Kariya for 1.2 million is like the Rangers trading Mikael Samuelsson to the Pens for Kovalev.(not paying what they are worth)
I just don't understand why there is not the outrage like there is with the Rangers when it is the same thing!!!!!

Dunno JD. I've seen some comments comparing them to the Rangers elsewhere - and I've certainly seen musings about being able to keep that many superstars happy in one locker room. But didn't NY pay a big lump of cash along with the Kovalev trade? Not that I really care - I don't invest myself so much in hating teams ('cept the Leafs ;)).

Maybe some of the faces involved are, in general, more well liked - or less disliked.

I'll be curious to see what Kariya's comment are - when they finally are spoken.

Will there be a big dog and pony show (press conference) in Denver like there was in Detroit? :roll:

Edited to add: ah yes, there will :The Colorado Avalanche Hockey Club will hold a major press conference at Pepsi Center on Thursday, July 3 at 2:00pm.

[lvscolencanes]

All I can say is the Avs have freakin powerhouse next year. I agree with JillsDad about there not being any controversy about it. But oh well, we can beat them, we will be ready for them in the finals!! :evil:

[talkingcanes]

First thing, there is only one puck and to have that many superstars on one team can breed jealousy and contempt. What I find interesting is nobody is raising hell like they would have if the Rangers had done this same thing, why is that? I distinctly remember many people blowing a fricking gasket when the Rangers traded i repeat TRADED for Bure and Kovalev and basically gave up nothing, yet nobody is saying a bad word when Pierre LaCroix does the same crap with the Avs. Why is that? Signing Kariya for 1.2 million is like the Rangers trading Mikael Samuelsson to the Pens for Kovalev.(not paying what they are worth)
I just don't understand why there is not the outrage like there is with the Rangers when it is the same thing!!!!!

I don't remember blowing a gasket about the Bure/Kovalev trade. My problem with the Rangers is when they throw huge money at a player. If Kariya chose to do this for reasons I'm sure he thinks will benefit him in the playoffs and going into next season, then that's his choice. and if that means the Avs got a "deal", then good for them. It's making the player happy no matter the cost that drives up salaries and drives me up a wall.

Maybe it will be a cat fight all season amongst the egos or maybe it will be a well oiled machine that is headed for a Cup.

[Turbulence]

I'll be curious to see what Kariya's comment are - when they finally are spoken.

Will there be a big dog and pony show (press conference) in Denver like there was in Detroit? :roll:


The press conference was shown on ESPNews...Paul was very gracious toward Anaheim but he said that while talking with Selänne both of them wanted to be on the same team and win a championship. He said the first word out of both of their mouths was Colorado. "No disrespect to Anaheim, of course, but we felt that Colorado gave us the best chance to win the cup" <-- Paraphrase

The conference hat LaCroix and Kariya in his own Avs jersey, and Selänne via teleconference from Finland in an Avs jersey #11 even though he'll wear #8. (Must have picked up a Jeff Shantz jersey at a memorabilia shop at the last minute~! :spin: )

[Jillsdad]

You are correct Eileen. The Rangers also paid 6 mil in cash to the Pens. Maybe I should have used Bure as the example, he was traded for Igor Ulanov and another player whose name escapes me. Not quite what Bure is worth you think. True the Avs have made the playoffs and wont the Cup with the additions from years past, but take Patty out of the picture, and it would have been a different story. Once again, just can't understand why there is no outrage.

[Jillsdad]

I agree with you on the money thing talkingcanes, and I am also disgusted by the Rangers paying Holik 45 mill. However, to be Devil's advocate for a moment were you as upset when Dallas paid Guerin the same amount of money that the Rangers paid Holik or did you raise the same kind of ruckus when Detroit paid Cujo 8 mil a year? My point is people vent against the Rangers when there are 4 or 5 other teams doint the same thing and nothing is basically said!!!

[Jillsdad]

Here is an interesting question to ponder? When Lemieux came back he was going to pay himself the salary of 1 dollar or something like that and the league and players association said he had to pay himself something close to what he was worth. How can the Avs get away with paying Kariya a paltry 1.2 million (if that is true) when that is nowhere near his "worth"?

[StormShaman]

It's an end-run around the Free Agent rules. He's setting himself up for hitting UFA status a year early by signing as a UFA for less than what his qualifying offer would have been--which means that come next year at this time he'll be a UFA and can get a phat contract somewhere else.

[Jillsdad]

Tnaks for answering that Camille, I was beginning to think Lacroix had some dirt on Bettman to be able to get away with something like that.

[raleighcanesfan]

Craig Patrick signed Kaspar to the minimum amount of contract, thus allowing him to become a UFA the next year. CP traded him, as well all know, so he could get at least a little return (although he bombed getting Ville Nieminem). Similar situation with Kariya, minus the trade.

Do you think the Aves hope to trade Kariya if he doesn't do anything by the trade deadline?

I think Paul is the big loser in this. A one year contract for under 2 mil one year before the CBA. Who would pay him 5-8 mil after the CBA? My only question is that I wonder if/how much incentives figure into this contract.

On another note, with the plethora of forwards on the Aves now, do you think they will deal someone for a goalie? Think we can get Bates back for Archie? ;)

[nccanes]

I think Paul is the big loser in this. A one year contract for under 2 mil one year before the CBA. Who would pay him 5-8 mil after the CBA? My only question is that I wonder if/how much incentives figure into this contract.


There's a quote somewhere saying there were zero incentives. I think Guin has it.

On another note, with the plethora of forwards on the Aves now, do you think they will deal someone for a goalie? Think we can get Bates back for Archie? ;)

I know you were being facetious, but since it's been mentioned does anyone think Bates wants to come back? I mean given the circumstances of his departure?

Or is this all just wishful thinking?

[raleighcanesfan]

I don't know. I recently heard (more hearsay than anything else) he sold his Glenwood townhouse, even though he's been spotted throughout Raleigh recently.

I really don't see him coming back, although I would love to see it.

[talkingcanes]

I agree with you on the money thing talkingcanes, and I am also disgusted by the Rangers paying Holik 45 mill. However, to be Devil's advocate for a moment were you as upset when Dallas paid Guerin the same amount of money that the Rangers paid Holik or did you raise the same kind of ruckus when Detroit paid Cujo 8 mil a year? My point is people vent against the Rangers when there are 4 or 5 other teams doint the same thing and nothing is basically said!!!

as a rule I don't tend to raise a ruckus unless the name Sergei Fedorov is involved! I thought it was stupid to pay Guerin that and apparently they agree since they are looking to trade him. I do see your point though, teams who are more "acceptable and likeable" don't get the same treatment by the general public as the Rangers do, me included.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I don't know. I recently heard (more hearsay than anything else) he sold his Glenwood townhouse, even though he's been spotted throughout Raleigh recently.

I really don't see him coming back, although I would love to see it.

I've read, heresay also, that his townhouse is up for sale but hasn't sold yet. I've also read that he says he'd like to come back.

Just for the record....I hate the Avs almost as much as I hate the Rangers and Wings. I don't tend to hate as many of the Avs players on an individual basis though. I just don't have any warm fuzzies about the team.

[nccanes]

Just for the record....I hate the Avs almost as much as I hate the Rangers and Wings. I don't tend to hate as many of the Avs players on an individual basis though. I just don't have any warm fuzzies about the team.

You crack me up SHC - I love you categorizing your hatred: not individual hatred on this one, just collective. :laugh:

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Just for the record....I hate the Avs almost as much as I hate the Rangers and Wings. I don't tend to hate as many of the Avs players on an individual basis though. I just don't have any warm fuzzies about the team.

You crack me up SHC - I love you categorizing your hatred: not individual hatred on this one, just collective. :laugh:

Well, you see, I have so much hatred that I HAVE to categorize it else it gets all tangled up and confused and before you know it I'm thinking I like the Leafs or something. :sick: ;)

[Alicia]

I don't know. I recently heard (more hearsay than anything else) he sold his Glenwood townhouse, even though he's been spotted throughout Raleigh recently.

I really don't see him coming back, although I would love to see it.

He actually owns two condos in that building, just for the record.

[Turbulence]

...appartments 501 and 512. Each are worth 299,777. Wonder what he's selling them for...:spin:

[nccanes]

http://www.realtor.com/Prop/1026974726

Oops, this is way OT. Sorry mods. :)

[moonstomper]

you guys have no idea how pissed off I am that I missed all this today :mad:

[guinevere]

There's a quote somewhere saying there were zero incentives. I think Guin has it.


Hi there.. here I am....http://www.smilies.org/basesmilies3/wavey.gif

Here's the quote....
Exerpt
from the Denver Post
"Now for the really unbelievable part: Kariya, who made $10 million last season with the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, will play with the Avalanche for $1.2 million next season - with no bonuses or incentives, the team confirmed

Guin

[Jeff O Rocks]

"Now for the really unbelievable part: Kariya, who made $10 million last season with the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, will play with the Avalanche for $1.2 million next season - with no bonuses or incentives, the team confirmed

I bet this move made the Ducks scratch their head...and their ass!! :roll: :D

[Kat]

I had a thought... I don't know where I read this, but someone on one of the boards talked about how it might be difficult for someone like Kariya to score 50 goals when he is constantly shadowed, the captain, lots of pressure, etc. I wonder if taking a lower salary with the Avs is his way to try and get back to being a great player, since he can be one of many instead of the be-all-end-all.

He would be much more marketable at the end of a 30 or 40 goal season than he was at the end of this season, even with the Cup run. And I would think that playing on a team with Forsberg, Sakic, Selanne, etc. would go much further to achieving that goal than trying to spearhead a team that is almost destined to have a bad year. He might score more just because their best D is going after someone else, or a different line, not to mention having better playmakers around. Just my $.02.

-Kat

[Jeff O Rocks]

http://www.realtor.com/Prop/1026974726

Oops, this is way OT. Sorry mods. :)

:cry: ..wonder where he will spend his summers once these are sold?

[Alicia]

http://www.realtor.com/Prop/1026974726

Oops, this is way OT. Sorry mods. :)

:cry: ..wonder where he will spend his summers once these are sold?

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[nccanes]

I had a thought... I don't know where I read this, but someone on one of the boards talked about how it might be difficult for someone like Kariya to score 50 goals when he is constantly shadowed, the captain, lots of pressure, etc. I wonder if taking a lower salary with the Avs is his way to try and get back to being a great player, since he can be one of many instead of the be-all-end-all.

He would be much more marketable at the end of a 30 or 40 goal season than he was at the end of this season, even with the Cup run. And I would think that playing on a team with Forsberg, Sakic, Selanne, etc. would go much further to achieving that goal than trying to spearhead a team that is almost destined to have a bad year. He might score more just because their best D is going after someone else, or a different line, not to mention having better playmakers around. Just my $.02.

-Kat

All good points Kat. If he doesn't have to worry about leading the team, etc. he may be able to focus solely on his own production. It'll be interesting next summer. Will someone even sign him between July 1 and the CBA expiration date though?

[folgersnyourcup]

If I lived in Anaheim and was a Ducks fan, no matter how long I had been one, I believe that after today's news I would immediately stop being one. The team is absolutely being dismantled. Kariya turning down the Ducks offer of 8 or so million and then going to the avs for 1.2 million.... Ducks fans were counting on management spending a bit more and getting Kariya to take a pay cut in order to get both Selanne and Kariya and they end up with absolutely nothing.

Everything for them is the opposite of what it was for us Canes fans. They only had about a month to enjoy their accomplishments before the realization that it may be back to square one. Kariya leaving the team for a salary that can be described as pocket change to him and citing the need to play for a cup-contending team is in sharp contrast to Hedican signing the 6-year deal saying he wanted to stay with Carolina because he was looking to win a cup. We had all summer to enjoy the accomplishments before the hellish season began....

I suppose the Avs will be interesting next year but this REALLY stinks for Ducks fans. They definitely had the potential to be a regular cup contender. Next season hasn't happened yet but signs are leaning towards them doing something similar to what we did last year. I'm really hoping that's not the case though and they make the playoffs next year. Giggy's good but he probably won't be able to get them in the playoffs single-handedly if the team in front of him is completely demolished.

Who here thinks Kariya would have stayed had the Ducks won the cup?

[Jeff O Rocks]

Who here thinks Kariya would have stayed had the Ducks won the cup?

I don't know folg....if he had won the Cup, he might have been satisfied there and still decided to go elsewhere to begin the quest again....I wonder if there may be underlying problems with the management or financial problems that might end the Ducks...so I just don't know!! :roll:

I do know that the Ducks fans are all crying right now...losing the "guts" of their Stanley Cup team!! :sad:

[StormShaman]

If Kariya had won the Cup, he wouldn't be staying either. This is all about the money for him--the "this is the team I want to win the Cup with" schtik was just that, a schtik and nothing more. The fans in Anaheim are angry, and justifiably so--they feel like they've been played for suckers by their captain.

[Stormbringer]

Am I the only one who feels and wonders if Kariya is trying to send a message to the NHL regarding the impending CBA lockout in what he did? Besides the other theories about his not wanting to be a captain anymore and such, (Crap either way you cut it...whatever the reason may be, Kariya's leaving the Ducks like he did and their being dismantled like they are would definitely make me question my allegiance to such a team.) it kind of does make sense...things that make you go hmmmm...

[Kat]

If Kariya had won the Cup, he wouldn't be staying either. This is all about the money for him--the "this is the team I want to win the Cup with" schtik was just that, a schtik and nothing more.

Huh? How is taking 1.2 million instead of 8 being all about the money? Just wondering...

-Kat

[StormShaman]

If Kariya had won the Cup, he wouldn't be staying either. This is all about the money for him--the "this is the team I want to win the Cup with" schtik was just that, a schtik and nothing more.

Huh? How is taking 1.2 million instead of 8 being all about the money? Just wondering...

He's taking a dive on a one-year contract so that he can hit UFA status early and cash in next July.

If Harry did the same thing I'd be raking him over the coals too.

[Stormbringer]

If Kariya had won the Cup, he wouldn't be staying either. This is all about the money for him--the "this is the team I want to win the Cup with" schtik was just that, a schtik and nothing more.

Huh? How is taking 1.2 million instead of 8 being all about the money? Just wondering...

He's taking a dive on a one-year contract so that he can hit UFA status early and cash in next July.

If Harry did the same thing I'd be raking him over the coals too.

Ah, "I see." said the blind man. Thanks for the tidbit Camille...(impersonates Sir George Head) bang goes the theory I presented above.

[nccanes]

As usual, I try to see both sides of a situation. I realize that Kariya is not at the twilight of his career (Bourque), but I don't necessarily begrudge an athlete for wanting to have the best possible situation to live and compete in.

There is no doubt that he and Selanne wanted a chance to play together. The question is, why didn't they want to do so in Anahiem? It appears they (the Ducks) were willing to put 9 mil or so to get them both in Anahiem. It doesn't appear that the Ducks had much time to even negotiate with them.

Using Kariya's own quote:

"``When we both became free agents, we made a hockey decision,'' Kariya said at a news conference. ``We both said, `Forget about the money, where's the place we want to play?' And Colorado jumped out at both of us immediately. So we made things work monetarily.''

That being said, we all know that Kariya led the fans to believe he'd stay. That's unfortunate.

And as far as the Avs. This is really amazing to read:

``Over the last 36 hours, these two athletes expressed their strong desire to come to Denver and play for the Avalanche,'' Lacroix said. ``Obviously, we were stunned.


With the CBA expiration next Sept. I don't think Kariya is in a no-risk situation either.

[talkingcanes]

I don't begrudge him what he considers the best situation for himself. I do think he misled the fans, whether it was just "athlete talk" or not, they are really upset. Over at Metroboards they are really fired up about him and planning how to greet him upon his return to Anaheim in an Avs jersey. He can't be surprised they feel that way. The parade route is barely cold.

I think it's risky and a little icky what he is doing with the money situation to be a free agent next year. But, the current CBA has that loophole and he has every right to take advantage of it. I agree Eileen, that he is putting himself in a possibly difficult situation next year with the CBA expiring, however I guess he figures if they are on strike he won't get paid anyway!

[SouthernHockeyChick]

My one thought was that maybe he doesn't think the Ducks will still exist after the possible work-stoppage and he's thinking this will put him in a better position when that time comes. Maybe he's thinking there will be a rather large contraction of the league after the CBA expires and Colorado is a good place to have ties with if that happens. Or maybe he's just another ass who thinks that there are really only about 6 teams that can really be contenders for the Cup and he only wants to play for them....you know all those players who waive their no-trade clauses but only for teams like Detroit, Dallas and Colorado (and I don't know how in the hell NY and Toronto usually end up in that list too but they do). Buncha *******s, IMO. Small market teams can and do contend....IF some of the decent players will play there!

No matter what his reasons....I'm finding it hard not to see it as a bit of an ******* move. {OK....it lets me use *******s but blocks the singular form?} But I also find it hard to hate him much. I really agree with Folgers though....I feel just awful for the Ducks fans who probably now feel they have nothing to look forward to. :sad: I'd LOVE to hear Rucchin's take on all of this.

[hyena]

sorry for jumping in this discussion so late, i've been offline a couple of days...

anyway, when i heard about this, my mouth just fell open. a few days ago if you were to ask me to make a list of players most loyal to their team, that i thought would never leave...kariya would have been on it. what the hell happened?

There is no doubt that he and Selanne wanted a chance to play together. The question is, why didn't they want to do so in Anahiem? It appears they (the Ducks) were willing to put 9 mil or so to get them both in Anahiem. It doesn't appear that the Ducks had much time to even negotiate with them.
i was wondering the same thing. they were just in the frigging SCF for crying out loud! it's like Anaheim didn't even TRY to keep him.

i feel so bad for Ducks fans, i think they got royally screwed. kariya was becoming one of my favorite players and ARRRGH now i'm just totally pissed off. :mad:

[Captain Slack]

Who here thinks Kariya would have stayed had the Ducks won the cup?

I do.

I can only imagine what it must feel like to be a Ducks fan after this. Imagine Ron Francis signing with Detroit after 2001-2002 cause he wanted to win a Cup. It would destroy our franchise as I think it might destroy the Ducks. A real shame.

That said, they're going to crucify Kariya next time he plays in the Pond. If you think our taunting of Keith Primeau-donna is bad, you ain't seen nothing yet! :crazy:

[Kat]

All excellent points. I stand corrected. :)

-Kat

[Captain Slack]

My, my!! SOMEONE certainly didn't waste time!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2740344634&category=24985

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2740345481&category=24985

[MoBigRed]

re: Kariya

Have i ever mentioned i'm not a big fan of the guy? Never have been...

[Stormbringer]

Mo! Long time, no see! Welcome back dude! :spin:

[puckin_A]

the difference here is Kariya has NEVER won a CUp and Francis has, so
it's not like he has to go somewhere else to get his name on it. But I disagree
that if he left it would destroy our franchise.

[StormShaman]

Who here thinks Kariya would have stayed had the Ducks won the cup?

Not me.

As far as I'm concerned the guy lied to the fans in Anaheim and he lied to the team--Murray took a calculated risk in letting Paul go UFA, on the off chance that Paul would accept a pay cut so that the Ducks could bring Teemu back...and here we find out that he and Teemu had planned months ago to bail for a team where they could more easily pad their stats and cash in come next July.

And as for the Bourque analogy, there's a very good reason why he isn't being raked over the coals by BruinsFan

Ray Bourque would have retired a Bruin had he not heard from friends in the Bruins organization that Sinden was planning to trade him--so he struck first and said "if you're going to trade me, then trade me to a team that has a shot at the Cup."

He never turned his back on the fans in Boston, and he never turned his back on the Bruins--his day with the Cup was spent in Boston with the fans that adored him for years, and he's made it very clear that he still bleeds black and gold.

God, I can't believe I said good things about a Bruin. The End is nigh.

[nccanes]

...and here we find out that he and Teemu had planned months ago to bail for a team where they could more easily pad their stats and cash in come next July.


Not that I'm saying they didn't discuss this prior to July 1 (what good friends wouldn't?), but has this been admitted or printed in the media somewhere?

And not to dispute him being happy to be a UFA, but do we not at least believe him that he feels like he has a better chance to win the Cup in Denver and that factored into the decision?

As far the Bourque stuff, that was the reason I mentioned him - to say that their situations were different. I'm sure no one - even those that don't have any opinion about him leaving the Ducks - would feel sorry for a 29 year old player that hasn't won the Cup.

[Logansfrog]

Well, I may be swimming upstream with this one, but I don't see a big problem with what Kariya has done.

The Ducks have been paying him $10 mil for 5 years, and now the year he leads them to the finals, all of a sudden he's too expensive and should take a pay cut? I'm certainly not going to say anyone is worth that much money, but his team paid him that much for a while and to not have them put their money where their mouth is after their best season is a bit insulting.

From the loyalty standpoint, if they'd wanted to, management could've traded Kariya anytime, like any hockey player. So, when they took the risk of letting him go UFA, he had the right to do what he felt was best for him.

I can see where the fans would be surprised and upset to see him go, I was shocked too, but I think he's more than shown his loyalty to the Ducks in the past. He's been a great player on a mediocre team for years, but he stayed with them and didn't complain or ask to be traded (like Friesen did), and he's only left now because the Ducks made it clear that they were willing to risk losing him rather than pay him what they've paid him for years. They can't take that risk and then be surprised that he didn't do exactly what they'd asked him to do (stay and take a pay cut).

The only thing I'd call him out for would be the "same time next year different result" comments he made recently, if he and Teemu have been planning this for a while, because that'd be blatant dishonesty. But I don't think we'll ever know how long this has been in the works, and for all we know his comments were made in good faith at that time.

I just can't get too upset at him because at the end of the day, it's a business and if the team wanted to get rid of him at some point, they could've done that, so if he's given the freedom to determine his own career, I'm not surprised that he made a choice that considered his wants/needs first and the Ducks' wants/needs second.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I would agree with you completely Logansfrog....except that we are talking about a pay-cut from $10 million here. I know, it's not fair to hold how much people are willing to pay him against him but I'm afraid that is the irrational manner in which my brain works. If he wanted to stay with the Ducks then I don't see what difference a couple million should make when he's being paid such a ridiculous sum. I mean for Christ's sake...he should have enough cash put away by now to play free for a few years and be fine!

And I know, I know....it's the principle of the paycut. But when you've already thrown principle out so completely to justify yourself making $10 million a year.... And it's only $1.2 million in Colorado!!! He obviously just agrees that a small-market team can't compete. And being a Canes fan I tend to take that personally.

Anyway, like I said, it's not rational....just how I feel at the moment anyway. And again....I'm still finding it pretty hard to dislike him all that much.

[guinevere]

I'm being totally ignorant and absolutely serious but it seems to me that if the salary cut taken was done to free him up next year, Kariya could have done it and stayed with Anaheim another year. Taking the cut AND moving to Colorado to me definately communicates something altogether different - more along the lines of "Kiss My Tailfeathers" .Of course it could truly be for the love of the game and who Kariya and Selanne most wanted to play for and that could very well have been Colorado. I mean, when you make that much money after a point it might not be all about the bucks. I'd play just about anywhere for half of what he's making. Except - for the Wings. Even I have principles. :beatup:

Guin

[talkingcanes]

Lacroix wrote:
``Over the last 36 hours, these two athletes expressed their strong desire to come to Denver and play for the Avalanche,'' Lacroix said. ``Obviously, we were stunned.


If this is the case, then it doesn't sound like the Ducks had much of a chance anyway. The Ducks did offer him more money, but it seems to me as if he doesn't think the Ducks have a shot at the Cup next year. Guess we'll all see together next June if he made the right choice.

[Kat]

I am obviously biased for a number of reasons (Kariya is one of my favs, and I just got "outplaced" by my company so team/company loyalty is not on my list of important things, to name a few)... but I still think that we don't know anything about what happened with Kariya and Ducks management behind closed doors.

-Kat

[StormShaman]

Quoted from a post to the Ducks board over at metroboards.com:

Murray isn't responsible for what the previous GMs did. You can only hold him responsible for what he did. What he did was tried to do everything that Paul wanted. He tried to make Paul happy and keep Paul happy. Murray has been consulting with Paul since Murray became GM about the changes that needed to be made to the Ducks. Paul had a dream to play with Oates, Murray got him Oates. Paul thought that the Thunder Sticks would be great at the Pond, the Pond got Thunder Sticks. Murray was still consulting Paul right up to the time he bolted. What more did Murray have to do to show the Ducks loyalty?

I guess you would have had to live in Southern California to fully understand why the Ducks fans are so upset. All any of us heard from Paul was how he had a dream of winning the cup with the Ducks. He was "Mr. Mighty Duck" to the point it was nauseating.

So.... you tell me. As far as I'm concerned he lied, and this just confirms it.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

In the last Hockey News they named Murray their NHL Executive of the year. It's interesting reading about all the great things Murray has done for the Ducks and how much he has turned the team around when I already know that the team seems to be slipping away from him. It's pretty sad.

[nccanes]

Someone believes that Bates will survive the Selanne/Kariya arrival:

From the Sporting News:

Behind their mighty six forwards, the Avalanche figure to post this third line -- Bates Battaglia, Andrei Nikolishin and Dan Hinote. Battaglia didn't fit in the top two lines last season, but he is right for this combination, which has sandpaper on the wings and a solid player and faceoff guy in the middle. . . .

[Logansfrog]

I wonder how much Selanne had to do with all this, too. After all, he and Kariya were a great pair and scored well, but then Selanne was traded away. I don't know the circumstances of that, but it wouldn't surprise me if Selanne didn't want to return to a team that had dumped him. Maybe Kariya was open to staying in Anaheim but Selanne wasn't and it was more important for Kariya to play with his old pal. I'm just speculating, of course, but I'm sure Selanne had something to say about all this, even though Kariya's getting all the bad press, and I can't imagine Selanne felt great about the Ducks after he got traded.

[Kat]

Quoted from a post to the Ducks board over at metroboards.com:

Murray isn't responsible for what the previous GMs did. You can only hold him responsible for what he did. What he did was tried to do everything that Paul wanted. He tried to make Paul happy and keep Paul happy. Murray has been consulting with Paul since Murray became GM about the changes that needed to be made to the Ducks. Paul had a dream to play with Oates, Murray got him Oates. Paul thought that the Thunder Sticks would be great at the Pond, the Pond got Thunder Sticks. Murray was still consulting Paul right up to the time he bolted. What more did Murray have to do to show the Ducks loyalty?

I guess you would have had to live in Southern California to fully understand why the Ducks fans are so upset. All any of us heard from Paul was how he had a dream of winning the cup with the Ducks. He was "Mr. Mighty Duck" to the point it was nauseating.

So.... you tell me. As far as I'm concerned he lied, and this just confirms it.

But, this is a post from a Ducks fan... not exactly the most un-biased source. Sorry, but to me this doesn't confirm anything about why Kariya chose to do what he did... except that Kariya pissed off the Ducks fans (which I already knew and admit freely).

-Kat

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Someone believes that Bates will survive the Selanne/Kariya arrival:

From the Sporting News:

Behind their mighty six forwards, the Avalanche figure to post this third line -- Bates Battaglia, Andrei Nikolishin and Dan Hinote. Battaglia didn't fit in the top two lines last season, but he is right for this combination, which has sandpaper on the wings and a solid player and faceoff guy in the middle. . . .


Gee, you think? :roll: If Vrbata couldn't crack the top two lines in Colorado I sure don't think Bates was ready for that.

That's great to hear. I hope this pans out and he finds a happy home there. Hopefully a home where people can stop ripping on him all the time.

[Canesluver]

Haven't seen this posted anywhere here. It's a good commentary. I like the writer's point-of-view:

Friendship Over Money
Kariya takes less pay to play with best friend Selanne
by Steve Bisheff
The Orange County (Calif.) Register

This is Paul Kariya on his own special kind of breakaway.
This is hockey's ultimate good soldier deciding it finally was time to put himself before the team, before the money, before anything and everything, except what truly makes him happy.
Signing this deal with the Colorado Avalanche, accepting the jaw-dropping decrease in salary, tells you two quick things about him:
First, he wasn't thrilled to be playing in the new, defense-oriented style adopted by the Mighty Ducks, despite all his denials to the contrary.
And, second, he desperately wanted to be reunited with his best friend and hockey soul mate, Teemu Selanne.
"This is not about money," Kariya said Thursday, which was pretty clear when it was announced he had signed a $1.2 million, one-year deal, leaving him $8.8 million short of what he made last season.
This was about one of hockey's best offensive players longing to skate again in the less-inhibiting, more wide-open style that made him a superstar.
And it was about a longtime friendship that is unique in sports.
Kariya and Selanne are the real-life version of Matthew Perry and Matt LeBlanc on "Friends."
Back in 1997, when Kariya out-waited Walt Disney Co., holding out for weeks until Disney paid him what he was worth, I remember strolling through the Ducks' locker room and aksing Warren Rychel, one of their blue-collar wingers, what the team's reaction was to his signing.
"I think the biggest whoop came from the No. 8 stall [Selanne's]," Rychel said. "They're like two little kids who can go back into their little world now and be happy."
Kariya and Selanne are the perfect personality mix. Kariya is more introverted, and Selanne is the always-good-natured extrovert.
"I feel like I'm a different person when I'm around him," Kariya once said. "He makes me laugh and open up more than I normally would."
It was Kariya who was responsible for luring Selanne to Anaheim in the first place. They played together in the 1996 All-Star Game, and when he returned to Orange County, Kariya immediately paid a visit to then-Ducks GM, Jack Ferreira.
"I never thought we could get him, but I did tell Jack what a great guy Teemu was," Kariya said. "He's just real humble and down-to-earth. It is so rare to see a guy of his stature relate to young players so well. It really made an impression on me."
The impression grew when Ferreira made the trade that brought Selanne to The Pond.
"I feel like I should send Jack a thank-you card every day," Kariya said afterward.
Once they were together on the ice, the partnership became even closer. The two could be magical together, like a great baseball double-play combination where one could almost sense the other's next move.
"He knows where I'm going to be, and I know where he's going to be," Selanne said.
Rychel was right. The two of them were like little kids who found out they were allowed to room together on the road.
Even then, their tastes were different. Kariya wanted to watch only football and basketball on TV. Selanne was strictly a "Baywatch" guy. But that didn't matter.
Teemu was always joking, and Paul was always laughing.
Then in March 2001, the Ducks announced they had traded Selanne and his high salary to the San Jose Sharks.
Kariya was crushed. It showed in the scoring charts. Kariya still would make many of the same pretty passes, but, instead of producing Selanne goals, they would bounce off some unsuspecting teammate's stick.
The two of them each scored 100 points one season. This past season, playing in different towns, Kariya finished with 81, Selanne with 64.
There were many in hockey, even in Anaheim, who thought if this Kariya-Selanne reunion happened, it would be with the Ducks.
But it didn't work out that way. Maybe it couldn't work out that way.
Under Mike Babcock, the Ducks play defense first and worry about everything else later. The deeper they skated into the playoffs this past post-season, the tighter they turned the screws on that defense--and the more diminished Kariya's role seemed to be. This was Jean-Sebastien Giguere's team now, not his.
Always classy and team oriented, the captain never once whined about it. He wanted to win the Stanley Cup with the franchise that brought him into the NHL. And if it had to be this way, he could accept it.
But that didn't mean he had to live with it the rest of his career.

[Jeff O Rocks]

That's great to hear. I hope this pans out and he finds a happy home there. Hopefully a home where people can stop ripping on him all the time.

Here here....I hope he has found a good home where he can play his style and not be dragged through the mud everyday...coughmocough!! :mad:

[Alicia]

Me too! ;)

[Shell]

Thanks for the article Shawn, I enjoyed that. I agree with Logan's frog on this one, and don't think he did anything wrong. Can you hang a guy for seeking happiness? Seems to me he did it for the right reasons for a change (instead of money). As far as doing it in order to be a UFA a year early, I don't really see that because next year will probably be even worse than this year with contract terms and free agent signings.. just months before the new CBA.
I would have loved to seen the faces of Avs management when they got that call though LOL.

[Turbulence]

Great article...makes me like the guy even more...

Now why couldn't they have instantly thought of the 'Canes instead of Colorado? :sad: :D

[Kat]

Now why couldn't they have instantly thought of the 'Canes instead of Colorado? :sad: :D

Uh... cuz Mo would instantly try to beat defense into them? :beatup:

-Kat

[nccanes]

Now why couldn't they have instantly thought of the 'Canes instead of Colorado? :sad: :D

Uh... cuz Mo would instantly try to beat defense into them? :beatup:


Which is the very reason some believe he left Anaheim. Of course, Kariya hasn't come out and said that, but there are many opinions, like the one that Shawn posted, that are saying that.

[StormShaman]

But, this is a post from a Ducks fan

Actually BalticGirl (the one who made that post) is a fan of the Ducks' archrivals, the LA Kings.

[StormShaman]

Can you hang a guy for seeking happiness?

I surely can when it shows that he lied to his fans and the team he turned his back on.

[nccanes]

Can you hang a guy for seeking happiness?

I surely can when it shows that he lied to his fans and the team he turned his back on.

I won't deny that his statements led you to believe that the Ducks had a chance to sign he and Teemu - and I would be pissed off if I were a Duck Fan. But what could the guy have said and when? Surely he wouldn't have said anything while they were in the Cup playoffs/finals - it would have become a media circus. I suppose he could have been more up front during those precious few weeks between the Game 7 and July 3, but in hindsight, I suppose that would have just caused the Duck fans to have zero opportunity to enjoy the Cup run.

Even saying nothing can cause a media circus - just ask Roy Williams.

Do I think Kariya could spend a little time expounding on his reasons for leaving and/or saying certain things at certain times? Absolutely.

[Kat]

But, this is a post from a Ducks fan

Actually BalticGirl (the one who made that post) is a fan of the Ducks' archrivals, the LA Kings.

But it is still a fan post... not a media quote... sorry, but that doesn't exactly count as hard evidence that Kariya was plotting to leave.

Don't mean to be rude here or anything, but evidence is evidence and hearsay is hearsay (just ask stewart123 ;) ). And some random person posting something counts as hearsay in my book. I am not arguing or refuting your opinion (which of course you are entitled to just as I am mine), just your proof.

-Kat

[StormShaman]

I won't deny that his statements led you to believe that the Ducks had a chance to sign he and Teemu - and I would be pissed off if I were a Duck Fan. But what could the guy have said and when?

Actually I think it's what he shouldn't have said. You know, things like "I want to finish what I started here", and "The Ducks are the team I want to win the Cup with", and "I want to stay in Anaheim".

That to me ranks right up there with Gary Roberts saying (when he left) that he just wanted to retire close to where he grew up, and then saying two years later that he really left because he felt that we had no chance at the Cup.

[guinevere]

FYI - I have the transcript for the Kariya/Selenne pressconference if anyone wants it. Its really long otherwise I would post it.

Guin

[nccanes]

I won't deny that his statements led you to believe that the Ducks had a chance to sign he and Teemu - and I would be pissed off if I were a Duck Fan. But what could the guy have said and when?

Actually I think it's what he shouldn't have said. You know, things like "I want to finish what I started here", and "The Ducks are the team I want to win the Cup with", and "I want to stay in Anaheim".


Sure he could have. I'm just saying that when you are asked questions and choose not to respond to them - that raises suspicions too. Roy Williams tried to do that during the NCAA Final Four and it did him no good - the reporters kept on asking him about UNC and kept on writing about it.

I also agree with Folgers (I think it was him) that mentioned that we don't know Selanne's feelings about coming back to Anaheim to play and how all that factored into this decision.

Do I think that the way things unfolded are crappy - of course. But I also think a well-liked guy that played for the Ducks for 10 years would have liked to avoid pissing off tens of thousands of fans if he could have. He either miscalculated the weight his words carried or changed his freakin' mind. I just have trouble picturing him rubbing his hands together for months waiting for this moment. How did he even know they weren't going to qualify him?

Anyway, let the Duck fans hate him. I've got a team to cheer for.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Sorry, but that article in today's paper made me laugh.

First of all, Kariya supposedly picked the Avs because he and his soulmate want to have their names on the Cup? Well, excuse me, but weren't the Ducks just in a game 7 in which the winner would have won the Cup? What is he saying, that the whole past year was a fluke? He gets one game away from the Cup, but that's never going to happen again with the Ducks? As a matter of fact, if Kariya would have picked up his game a bit more, maybe, just maybe his name would be on the Cup right now! As the highest paid player on the ice in that series, many fans were expecting a bit more out of him that last game. (did he play in that last game?).

It's public knowledge now that the Ducks offered the soulmates more money than they ended up accepting with the Avs. This sportswriter is blaming the departure on Babcock. So, the coach suddenly wants Kariya to play defense as well as offense and it's time to hit the road? Bottom line, Babcock got the Ducks further than they have ever been. I guess it's better for Paul to skate wide open and play offensively and lose games, rather than be a bit more conservative, play defense, and win?

I was neutral about Kariya before all this shook down, but after this I greatly dislike the creep. Sorry, I know there are Kariya fans out there, but the guy looks like a selfish liar to me. The Ducks management tried to put together a deal so they could sign both Kariya and Selanne. He spit in their faces by taking a lower individual, and lower combined offer with the Avs. And the excuse that he wants to get his name on the Cup doesn't wash with me either. What team just played for the Cup this year? Yes, the Avs are good, but they need a goalie and they're no lock for the Cup this year.

What comes around goes around, and we'll see what happens with Paul this coming year. It will be interesting to see if the Avs implode because of a few egos too many in the clubhouse. Good luck Tony G.

[Lady J]

http://www.realtor.com/Prop/1026974726

Oops, this is way OT. Sorry mods. :)

:vamp: I'm sorry... I MUST have ghetto brain ~ when I saw the pictures of the condo, my first thought was, "I could never own a house that big ~ I could never clean all that!" :eek2: It didn't occur to me that someone with a residence that large would probably have someone to do that for them. :roll: lol

[Lady J]

Well, I may be swimming upstream with this one, but I don't see a big problem with what Kariya has done.

The Ducks have been paying him $10 mil for 5 years, and now the year he leads them to the finals, all of a sudden he's too expensive and should take a pay cut? I'm certainly not going to say anyone is worth that much money, but his team paid him that much for a while and to not have them put their money where their mouth is after their best season is a bit insulting.

From the loyalty standpoint, if they'd wanted to, management could've traded Kariya anytime, like any hockey player. So, when they took the risk of letting him go UFA, he had the right to do what he felt was best for him.

I can see where the fans would be surprised and upset to see him go, I was shocked too, but I think he's more than shown his loyalty to the Ducks in the past. He's been a great player on a mediocre team for years, but he stayed with them and didn't complain or ask to be traded (like Friesen did), and he's only left now because the Ducks made it clear that they were willing to risk losing him rather than pay him what they've paid him for years. They can't take that risk and then be surprised that he didn't do exactly what they'd asked him to do (stay and take a pay cut).

The only thing I'd call him out for would be the "same time next year different result" comments he made recently, if he and Teemu have been planning this for a while, because that'd be blatant dishonesty. But I don't think we'll ever know how long this has been in the works, and for all we know his comments were made in good faith at that time.

I just can't get too upset at him because at the end of the day, it's a business and if the team wanted to get rid of him at some point, they could've done that, so if he's given the freedom to determine his own career, I'm not surprised that he made a choice that considered his wants/needs first and the Ducks' wants/needs second.

I'm gonna have to agree with Froggie as well. I don't thinkwhat he did was any more heinous than certain other players. Now, granted, if I were an Anaheim fan, I'd be feeling pretty upset and frantic right about now.

[Alicia]

OK, I admit to not really knowing where all to look, but has anyone seen anything definite anywhere regarding Bates' status with the Avs?

[nccanes]

OK, I admit to not really knowing where all to look, but has anyone seen anything definite anywhere regarding Bates' status with the Avs?

They qualified him. So Bates can either sign, negotiate, or go to arbitration (I think?).

[Alicia]

OK, I admit to not really knowing where all to look, but has anyone seen anything definite anywhere regarding Bates' status with the Avs?

They qualified him. So Bates can either sign, negotiate, or go to arbitration (I think?).

Thanks...I had read where the Avs had tendered a qualifying offer, just wondered how the acquisitions of Kariya & Selanne were going to affect his position with them...

[Shell]

New duo fascinates Forsberg
By Adrian Dater, Denver Post Sports Writer
Peter Forsberg's message to Paul Kariya: Dinners are on me, pal.
Forsberg is spending the summer in Sweden.

Forsberg said he can't wait for Avalanche training camp to begin, now that the team has added star forwards Kariya and Teemu Selanne to the roster. With Kariya taking a pay cut from $10 million to $1.2 million to help make the deal happen, Forsberg will return the favor when they dine out on the road this season.

"I promised Paul I'd pick up the checks for dinner during the season," Forsberg told the Swedish paper Expressen. The NHL's most valuable player this past season, Forsberg said he is salivating at the 1-2 punch the Avs will throw at opponents with their top two lines, which will include Joe Sakic, Milan Hejduk and Alex Tanguay.

"It sure looks good. At least the first and second line. Let's see what happens to the third and fourth line," Forsberg said.

Forsberg, who is spending the summer in Sweden, won't mind if his ice time dips a bit with the addition of Kariya and Selanne, he said. He said he expects to play with Tanguay and Hejduk on the same line, but is sure he'll get some shifts with Kariya and Selanne and will play with them on the power play.

"It will be fun. I believe it will be a great season," Forsberg said. "Winning is what it's all about. I think Kariya got a taste for it when Anaheim reached the Stanley Cup Finals."

[Guyute]

Truly insane.

line 1: Kariya- Forsberg- Selanne
line 2: Hejduk- Sakic- Tanguay

(or switch Forsberg and Sakic... like it really matters...)

I predict a GFA of around 5.

[Jeff O Rocks]

Truly insane.

line 1: Kariya- Forsberg- Selanne
line 2: Hejduk- Sakic- Tanguay

(or switch Forsberg and Sakic... like it really matters...)

I predict a GFA of around 5.

Does kind of look like "money in the bank" don't it?? :crazy:

[folgersnyourcup]

I agree Guyute. Without Roy I was thinking they will more than likely need to score more goals than last year in order to succeed but this really is pretty crazy. With those lines they may very well have MANY 6 or more goal scoring nights! Of course that's all on paper, it will be interesting to see how the players gel together. But like the Avs or not (I don't) I think they will certainly be a fun team to watch play, provided they aren't playing the Canes.

[Lady J]

wow :eek2: I'm no big fan of Colorado, but watching the Forsberg line play this season is going to be unreal. Can't wait .

[nccanes]

OK, I admit to not really knowing where all to look, but has anyone seen anything definite anywhere regarding Bates' status with the Avs?

They qualified him. So Bates can either sign, negotiate, or go to arbitration (I think?).

Thanks...I had read where the Avs had tendered a qualifying offer, just wondered how the acquisitions of Kariya & Selanne were going to affect his position with them...

Since you are at the beach and might have missed this:

Battaglia, Skrastins on board
Short contracts in style in NHL
By Terry Frei, Denver Post Sports Writer
One-year contracts are getting to be a habit for the Avalanche.

Colorado announced Tuesday that forward Bates Battaglia and defenseman Karlis Skrastins had become the latest veterans to sign one-year deals with the Avalanche.

Battaglia was acquired from Carolina in March and Skrastins came to Colorado in a trade from Nashville last month. With the NHL's collective bargaining agreement due to end in September 2004 and with a possible work stoppage looming after that, one-year deals have become increasingly fashionable.

Peter Forsberg, Derek Morris, Paul Kariya, Teemu Selanne and Serge Aubin signed one-year contracts with the Avs within the past month.

Battaglia, 27, was a major disappointment for the Avs last spring after they sent young winger Radim Vrbata to the Hurricanes.

Installed on the second line, centered by Joe Sakic, Battaglia had only one goal and five assists in 13 regular-season games and only two assists in the first-round loss to the Minnesota Wild.

Following the acquisition of Selanne and Kariya, Battaglia is expected to slide to the third line, at least at the outset of this season.

[Shell]

yeahhhh, underdog.. first word to pop in my mind when thinking of Colorado.. surrrreeeee.. ;)

Avalanche goalie David Aebischer preparing for season without Patrick Roy
posted August 19 @ 18:48, EST

DENVER (AP) - If David Aebischer is nervous about replacing Colorado goalie Patrick Roy, you wouldn't know it.

Aebischer, a 25-year-old Swiss who backed up Roy for three seasons, spoke of succeeding the goalie who won more games than any other in NHL history before retiring this spring. And he was calm.

"I'm doing just great," Aebischer said Monday after skating with a handful of Avalanche players at the team's practice facility. "I'm preparing for this training camp just like any other. I'm not looking at things any differently than I have in the last three years."

Aebischer spent most of the summer in Switzerland, working on his game, conditioning and butterfly style. He even played badminton to improve his hand-eye co-ordination.

Teammates said they were encouraged to see Aebischer among the first Avalanche regulars taking part in optional Denver workouts.

"I've played with him since the minors, and he's always been a hard worker and he's become one of the best in the league because of that, and I think he'll be better this year," winger Dan Hinote told The Denver Post. "You can tell he's excited about the season, even if it doesn't always seem like it. He's got a lot of fire in his belly."

Colorado is a perennial Stanley Cup favourite and the team added Paul Kariya and Teemu Selanne earlier this summer. But many see goaltending as a big question mark.

"Go ahead, take us lightly," Hinote said. "I like being the underdog anyway. And (Aebischer) is the kind of kid who will take that as a challenge. He'll say, 'No one expects me to step in and fill his shoes because they're so big.' And he'll thrive on that. We have confidence in him."

Added defenceman Derek Morris: "You can't compare anybody to Patrick Roy. But, believe me, we have confidence in (Aebischer)."

Aebischer said he will stay in Denver until the start of training camp Sept. 13. He knows Roy's No. 33 nameplate has been removed from the stall next to his in the Avalanche locker room, but he said he will keep Roy's single-mindedness about winning.

"His mental game is what I learned the most from him," Aebischer said. "He was always at the same level. He changed the game, but he never changed."

[Turbulence]

Aebs will do fine this year...he has a mediocre season last year, but the 2 before that were very good. With this team in front of him, he will shine.

Good article...

[Jeff O Rocks]

Who would take them lightly?? Just because Roy retired??? They are loaded for bear.........look out!! :crazy:

[nccanes]

"Go ahead, take us lightly," Hinote said. "I like being the underdog anyway.

What has he been smokin'?

Avs=Underdog - riiiiiiight! :roll:

[Shell]

Avs are hopeful changes do them a world of good
By Jim Benton, Rocky Mountain News
September 8, 2003

Losing, especially in the first round of the playoffs, doesn't sit well with the Colorado Avalanche.

So after the Avalanche, which has won two Stanley Cups and has played in the Western Conference finals six times since 1996, was eliminated by Minnesota in the first round of the 2003 playoffs, changes were expected.

Off-season changes - some subtle, others not - were made.

Future Hall of Fame goaltender Patrick Roy retired, and he's one of nine players from the 2002-03 roster who no longer are with the team.

Defensemen Greg de Vries and Bryan Marchment, and forwards Steve Reinprecht, Mike Keane, Scott Parker, Jeff Shantz, Eric Messier and Vaclav Nedorost are gone.

The Avalanche added forwards Paul Kariya, Teemu Selanne, Peter Worrell, Andrei Nikolishin and defenseman Karlis Skrastins to the roster for training camp that starts Saturday at Family Sports Center, and Colorado coaches will have some fun trying to fit the new faces into the right spots.

"We like all the changes we've made," Avalanche vice president of player personnel Michel Goulet said. "Any time you have some new blood, its always fun. It's a breath of fresh air with new guys coming in, and we could have some rookies that could impress.

"We've been pretty fortunate when we come to camp because we're always pretty excited because we know we are going to have a pretty good team. I think we're going to have a pretty good team again."

Kariya and Selanne, All-Stars the Avalanche picked up for the combined free-agent price of $7 million, will embellish Colorado's already potent top two lines. Just how coach Tony Granato mixes and matches Kariya and Selanne with Joe Sakic, Peter Forsberg, Milan Hejduk and Alex Tanguay, who agreed Saturday to a one-year, $1.5 million contract with the team, will be interesting to watch during the preseason.

The biggest overhaul will be on the third and fourth lines, with the hopes of adding more scoring punch.

Nikolishin, a faceoff specialist and defensive center acquired from Chicago, and Worrell, an enforcer obtained from Florida, probably will play most of the time on the third and fourth lines. Bates Battaglia, who was picked up late last season, also figures in this mix, along with Dan Hinote, Brad Larsen, Brian Willsie, Riku Hahl, Serge Aubin and Steve Moore and others who will be battling to secure spots.

"The obvious splash was Kariya and Selanne, along with Roy retiring," Fox Sports Net analyst Peter McNab said. "You have mind-boggling star power on the first two lines. From the Avalanche point of view, the revamping of the third and fourth lines may be just as dramatic as adding those two players."

Colorado will have extensive changes on the penalty kill, and for good reason. The Avalanche was 21st in the league last season.

"No question, penalty killing is something we need to improve," Goulet said. "With the players we have, we should be pretty good. When you look at it, there are all kinds of reasons why the penalty killing didn't work, but it is basically like the power play. Everything needs to be as a team when you are on the ice with four guys or three guys."

Granato's experiments to find the best penalty-killing units, and his shuffling of the personnel on the power play, which was inconsistent last year, are worth paying attention to during the preseason.

"As much as the power play is going to be a treat to watch to see how the units work themselves out, the penalty killing is going to be interesting to see how it flushes itself out at the start of season," McNab said.

Colorado needs to find a sixth and, possibly, seventh defensemen to play behind Adam Foote, Rob Blake, Derek Morris, Martin Skoula and Skrastins. The Avalanche is hoping Skoula, 23, comes into his own in his fifth season.

"We've got the top four or five guys that are pretty solid," Goulet said. "I've never had much of a problem with Marty, but sometimes he's one of those guys, when you make a mistake, everybody pays attention to it. He's still a young guy and he has tremendous potential and I still believe he's going to become a very good hockey player."

And then there is the king-sized question on how David Aebischer, the backup for the past three seasons, and highly regarded minor league standout Phil Sauve will respond to the challenge of being the possible replacements for Roy.

"If you feel you have what you want in goal, then the question can't be answered no matter how much people want to know right now," McNab said. "Aebischer or Sauve, one or the other, is going to have to step up and be the No. 1.

"With Patrick going, I think you had to make some changes to improve the club. You know you are going to be a different hockey club without Patrick. The things that needed to be addressed were addressed. The questions that are going to be questions won't be answered until camp starts and the season starts."

[Jeff O Rocks]

I hope Bates has a great year... I wish him well...

[Alicia]

I hope Bates has a great year... I wish him well...

Me too...the whole team looks pretty darn good on paper.

[StormShaman]

"Go ahead, take us lightly," Hinote said. "I like being the underdog anyway.

What has he been smokin'?

Avs=Underdog - riiiiiiight! :roll:

You'll have to forgive Cadet Dan. You know how slow those Army guys can be. ;)

Go Navy!

[Shell]

Fri, October 3, 2003
Two new Avs equal one fresh start
Crafty, that Milan
By AL STRACHAN

DENVER -- In one corner of the Colorado Avalanche dressing room, Teemu Selanne and Milan Hejduk sit side by side, peeling off their practice gear. "Hejdy, you were great in practice," Paul Kariya shouts from the other corner. "You?" he said, referring to Selanne. "Keep working."

Selanne chuckles. "I roomed with him for 2 1/2 years," he explained. "I got half my salary for playing hockey and half for looking after Paul."

What was he like as a roommate? "He never had the remote control," Selanne He watched some weird stuff."

When this observation is offered to Kariya, he just snorts: "Me? All he ever watched was Baywatch."

Such is the mood in the Colorado dressing room these days. Everybody's happy. Everybody's joking. Everybody is excited. Everybody is optimistic. There's a strong sense that this is going to be a great year for the Avs.

Kariya is the instigator of all these high hopes. He not only joined the Avs as a free agent, he brought closest friend Selanne with him.

"It was Paul who decided," Selanne said. "We had talked earlier that we would like to play together, but when he called that night and told me that he was going to become a free agent (because Anaheim wouldn't make a qualifying offer) that was a big decision for him to go and test the free-agent market."

To that point, Selanne, also a free agent, had not considered the possibility of a coupled entry. But then, at the same time, the two friends came to the same conclusion:

"Once we decided that we would like to try it, at the same second, we both said, 'Colorado!' "

Colorado indeed. The team of Peter Forsberg, Joe Sakic, Hejduk, Rob Blake and many other offensively talented players. More importantly, it is also the team coached by Tony Granato, definitely not one of those defence-obsessed drones who are far too common in the coaching profession.

"We talked about Joe and Peter and all the guys we have here," continued Selanne. "We joked that if we couldn't make the first line with Peter, we'd have to play with Joe on the second."

And that's what they're doing -- playing with Sakic. Whether it turns out to be the first line or the second remains to be seen.

"It's fantastic," Kariya said. "It's a highly skilled team, a great group of guys. First of all, Teemu and I wanted to see if we could play together. Then when we looked at teams, this team seemed to be a perfect fit for our skill set.

"We're two offensive wingers and you come here and you're going to play with either Joe or Peter, two of the best centres ever to play the game, not to mention guys like Derek Morris and Adam Foote and Robbie Blake on the back, guys who move the puck well."

So the decision having been made, it was just a matter of implementing it, a task made easier by the fact that both players have the same agent, Don Baizley.

Said Selanne, "Paul just called Don and said, 'Don, this is what we want to do. Do whatever it takes to make it happen.' "

It didn't take much, only $1.2 million US for a one-year deal in Kariya's case because he wanted to make sure he earned less than the average salary. By doing so, as a 10-year pro, he guaranteed his status as an unconditional free agent next summer.

"You just want to play in the place where you're the most happy and where you enjoy the hockey the most because if you don't enjoy this game, it's going to be too tough," Selanne said.

"For me and Paul, it was a dream come true. For Paul, I think it's going to be good for him -- to have a good fresh start."

[nccanes]

Kariya exit leads to anti-Avs bounty

By RICK SADOWSKI Scripps Howard News Service


A group of Mighty Ducks of Anaheim fans angry with Paul Kariya for signing with the Colorado Avalanche is doing more than quacking. It has started a “Beat the Avalanche Fund” and is collecting money to donate to a charity designated by the Ducks player who scores the winning goal the next time Anaheim defeats the Avalanche at a home game.

The fans who felt betrayed by Kariya became even more displeased when he offered to put up $3,000 for a team party if the Avalanche beat Anaheim in a Nov. 18 game at Denver’s Pepsi Center. Kariya didn’t play because of a sprained wrist, but Kariya pal and former Ducks forward Teemu Selanne scored in overtime for a 2-1 Avalanche victory.

The Avalanche visit the Arrowhead Pond on Dec. 19. If the Avalanche wins or the game ends in a tie, the money would roll over to the next meeting, Jan. 30 at Anaheim, Calif. As of Thursday, $640 had been collected on the fan-run Web site www.allducks.com.

The Web site message reads, in part:

“It is a hockey tradition for players to offer their teammates financial incentives . . . when they first play the team that traded them away, but Kariya made this offer despite the fact that he left of his own free will as an unrestricted free agent in the offseason. That is why we Mighty Ducks fans were so angry with what he did.

.“He chose to leave, and yet he still made it a point to show everyone how badly he wanted to see his new team beat his old team. When we heard about this, we were angry. We felt the best way to show Kariya how angry we were (and still are) would be to give him a taste of his own medicine. That’s where this fund got started.”

Kariya, who spent nine seasons in Anaheim, became a free agent July 1 when the Ducks chose not to tender him a qualifying offer of $10 million, which would have matched last season’s salary. The Ducks wanted to re-sign Kariya at a lower salary and spend the extra money on other players; presumably, Selanne would have been one of them.

Selanne, whom the Ducks traded to San Jose in 2001, became a free agent when he elected not to exercise a $6.5 million option on his contract with the Sharks. Kariya and Selanne signed one-year contracts totaling $7 million with the Avalanche on July 3.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I think I'll go donate.

[MoBigRed]

I think i might also.

Have i ever mentioned my opinion on Kariya? Not that he's any better than Fedorov, though. I still can't bring myself to pull for the Ducks.

But i still might have to donate.