CBA

[Shell]

I guess we can probably use an official CBA thread...

Forecast for NHL hazy for 2004-05

Q If the NHL locks out its players in 2004-05 and the entire season is lost, will it have to extend by one season the deals of players currently under contract?

A Most people are assuming it will be a lost year, but nobody knows for sure right now and nobody will know until the new collective bargaining agreement is struck. One of the many things that will have to be negotiated will be transition rules and that will be the biggest one. An arbitrator recently ruled, however, that players can negotiate lockout protection into their contracts, the way Maple Leaf forward Owen Nolan did when he did his deal with the San Jose Sharks. Under the provisions of that deal, if the 2004-05 season is reduced to fewer than 40 games, the Leafs must add a year to his deal at a salary of $6.5 million (all figures U.S.).

Q What is with Maple Leaf GM-coach Pat Quinn's obsession with having as few contracts on the books as possible beyond 2004-05? What does that mean?

A Quinn correctly points out that nobody knows what the labour landscape will look like post-lockout and, specifically, what the salary cap will be. He doesn't want to wake up one morning with an $80 million payroll and a $35 million salary cap. But it's also hard to believe that the league would impose a hard cap and force its teams to be under it immediately. Any cap would almost certainly be phased in.

Q How many contract commitments do the Leafs have beyond 2004-05?

A As it stands now, the Leafs could have as few as just one and that belongs to captain Mats Sundin. If the season is fewer than 40 games, they would also have Nolan's deal. But they still haven't signed restricted free agents Bryan McCabe, Nik Antropov, Wade Belak, Ric Jackman, Alexei Ponikarovsky or Wade Belak, nor have they signed any unrestricted free agents.

Q After a quiet first two days, has the usual fiscal insanity broken out in the NHL?

A It depends on your definition of insanity. Compared to Bobby Holik getting $9 million a year, Derian Hatcher getting only $6 million could be considered rather sensible. It may not seem that way three years from now when an already not-terribly-mobile Hatcher is 34 years old, but the fact is there is little doubt he would have received five years at $7.5 million per season last summer. So Hatcher is out a total of $7.5 million over the course of the deal. Teemu Selanne took a pay cut and Paul Kariya is at $1.2 million for next season.

Q Are agents and players shooting for an extra year because they think they might lose a year to a lockout?

A You bet they are. The mentality in the hockey world is that a two-year deal is actually a one-year deal. And that's precisely why Glen Wesley is looking for a three-year deal from the Leafs.

Q Couldn't the league solve a lot of these problems by doing away with guaranteed contracts?

A Certainly, but the players would never go for it. If you talk to players, you learn that they realize they're probably going to take a haircut in the next CBA and they can live with the constraints of a salary cap and new landscape. But the guaranteed contract is sacrosanct.

Q Would the players be paid the full amounts of their contracts if the 2004-05 season were shortened by a lockout?

A No. Players are currently paid based on a 180-day regular season and their pay during a truncated lockout year would be based on the number of days in that season.

[nccanes]

An article from the Toronto Sun with quotes from O'Neill:


Jul. 15, 2003. 01:00 AM
`We're well prepared'
NHL players say possible lockout dominates plans
League must take the lead on talks, Leafs' Tucker says


RANDY STARKMAN
SPORTS REPORTER

WINDERMERE, Ont.—Even on a picture-perfect day for 18 holes in the Muskokas, Carolina forward Jeff O'Neill admits it's hard not to let one's thoughts wander to the wild and wacky summer it's been in hockey and the storms clouds brewing overhead.

"Sure, it is," O'Neill said yesterday when asked whether the potential lockout after next season was on a lot of players' minds this summer. "For the guys who make 10 million bucks a year or whatever, they don't care. For the guys that are going to be out of work for a year ... we've all been putting our money away so we're well prepared for a long work stoppage."

O'Neill and many of his NHL peers, including Eric Lindros, Darcy Tucker and Shayne Corson, took part yesterday in the first-ever Windermere Good-as-Gold Open to support the Canadian women's Olympic hockey team and Muskoka Interval House, a women's shelter.

Tucker, who has spent most of the off-season relaxing on his boat on Lake Rosseau, said he doesn't want an extended vacation that would stretch far past September of next year. The Leaf said he's hoping to see some constructive talks between the NHL and the NHL Players' Association this season.

"I don't think it's something that's going to get done overnight, that's for sure," Tucker said. "Obviously, there has to be ongoing talks throughout the year. That's what most players would like to see, is talks towards something.

"But if the NHL isn't going to make themselves available to talk, it's going to be difficult for us to get something done. It's up to Gary (Bettman, NHL commissioner) and his people to make the first move and get this thing going, because we'd love to sit down and talk but nobody's made any headway from their side. We like the status quo."

Former NHLer Marty McSorley, a co-chairman for yesterday's fundraising tournament, was one of NHLPA head Bob Goodenow's main lieutenants when he was a player rep, but is now technically part of the management side as a coach with Springfield, the Phoenix Coyotes' AHL affiliate.

"It's a different climate right now, as every negotiating period is," McSorley said. "I think the ownership group is stronger. I think that the players in '94 showed a tremendous amount of solidarity, but that was close to 10 years ago. For the most part, the vast majority of players are a different crew.

"I think that the owners are looking at this as an opportunity to force the game and put it where they want it to be financially. It's going to be very interesting."

McSorley said the best compromise could be some sort of soft salary cap with a luxury tax.

"I'm not sure if the owners think that's the right thing to do," he said. "I'm not sure if the players feel that way. If the players want the status quo, there will definitely be a lockout. If the owners are trying to get a very solid salary cap, there will definitely be a lockout. I think a tax would probably solve not having a lockout, but I'm not sure it would satisfy the desires of one group or the other."

Brad Tapper, a Scarborough native who plays for the Thrashers, said he's worried a lockout could hurt teams in the south.

"It takes a lot to get fans into hockey in the south. And if we go into a lockout, we might lose fans there. Sometimes we only get 10,000 or 11,000. For us as players, we have to realize what's at stake here."

For his part, O'Neill is scratching his head about the events of this summer.

"The feeding frenzies of the past with the free agents have come and gone, I guess, with the lockout coming up. The game's changing. It's not the same as it used to be. Whether it's for the better or worse is not for me to say, but when you see a guy like Paul Kariya sign for $1.5 million, it's weird."

O'Neill also expressed some sympathy for the plight of former Leaf goalie Curtis Joseph, who is in limbo after Dominik Hasek came out of retirement for Detroit.

"He donated his career to the Wings to try to help them win a Cup and they just kind of turned their back on him. That's the way hockey is at the end of the day. We do make a lot of money and we are treated well and we've got a good lifestyle, but we're just a piece of meat at the end of the day because organizations will turn their back on you in a heartbeat if something better comes along."

[Jeff O Rocks]

I hope O didn't accidentally bank a ball off a tree or let a club slip out of his head and hit Darcy in the nut* or anything....right SHC?? :evil: ;)

Good to hear something from O...glad he is enjoying his time off...what a sensible guy!!

[Shell]

Aug. 16, 2003. 03:13 PM
High salaries threaten Habs

MONTREAL (CP) — The future of the National Hockey League's most successful team is threatened unless the financial obligations of the Montreal Canadiens change in the medium term, club president Pierre Boivin said in an interview in Saturday's Montreal La Presse.

``In the current financial situation of the National Hockey League and the fiscal context that the Canadiens face, the future of the club in the medium term is in peril,'' he said.

According to Boivin, the survival of the Habs depends on a reduction of player salaries and a renegotiation of financial arrangements with governments.

The first part of the problem can be resolved if a salary ceiling was invoked in a renegotiated collective agreement between team owners and the players' association.

The contract expires in September 2004.

Boivin said hockey's financial structure must change for the future of his team and the NHL generally.

``If I take the Canadiens for example, we lose money even if we nearly achieve optimal revenues,'' he said, pointing to the popularity of the sport. The team has won a league record 24 Stanley Cups.

``We are first in the league for average attendance. We have a rate of attendance of about 92 per cent in the NHL's biggest arena. We have increased ticket prices regularly in the past years — the Canadiens are 23rd in this area — but we can't increase our tickets by 10 per cent each season.''

The team has strong corporate support, he said. It recently changed the arena sponsor to Bell from Molson but can no longer expect additional revenues from that source.

Boivin added that the club has the best possible television rights.

And the team's souvenir boutiques have increased sales by 30 per cent by selling jerseys of team heroes like Jose Theodore, Saku Koivu and Richard Zednik.

With all that's changed, Boivin said he doesn't know how to increase team revenues even more.

``I believe that we will have unconditional support from fans, even if there is a work stoppage because people want an end to the salary increases.''

[Shell]

Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs believes NHL salary cap a certainty
posted August 22 @ 19:27, EST

BOSTON (AP) - Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs, breaking years of silence for the sake of a charity fund-raiser, vowed Friday that the NHL will have a salary cap in its next collective bargaining agreement.

"The commissioner is dedicated to cost-certainty when it comes to the labour agreement," Jacobs said at a "Breakfast with the Bosses" featuring Boston's four professional sports owners. "There will be cost-certainty."

Owners sought a salary cap in the last negotiations before an agreement was reached without one, ending the lockout that wiped out almost half of the 1994-95 regular season. Since then, three teams have moved and three others have declared bankruptcy, though in at least two cases the financial problems went far beyond salary costs.

The labour contract expires after next season, and NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has said he wants a salary cap in the next one. Officials from the NHL Players Association could not be reached for comment, but the union has always maintained that the market should set salaries.

A resident of Buffalo, N.Y., Jacobs is so rarely seen or heard from publicly in Boston that his appearance at the breakfast was itself news. Although he is said to attend many Bruins games, he sits in a luxury box and rarely, if ever, mingles among the fans; his last media interview is believed to have been more than three years ago.

Friday's event was broadcast on television and radio as part of the WEEI-AM radiothon to raise money for the Jimmy Fund, which serves children with cancer. The event raised more than $550,000 US by the evening.

Jacobs was quickly asked about the perception that he cares more about milking money from the team than winning.

"Boston makes money, and it will continue to make money. When I say it makes money, it doesn't lose a lot, is a better way to put it," Jacobs said during a panel discussion with Celtics owner Wyc Grousbeck, Red Sox owner John Henry and Patriots owner Bob Kraft.

"We've got teams that are losing 20 or 30 million dollars a year. These guys are close to going out of business. If we don't have a healthy league, we don't have a healthy team. So it's up to guys like us, in Boston, who have it good, to be able to help bootstrap up this entire league."

But he denied he is apathetic about the team, saying that he gets so involved in watching the Bruins play that his ankles hurt after the game, as if he skated a regular shift.

"I've been there, I've seen it," Grousbeck said. "He's a major fan."

Jacobs also denied that he has ordered Bruins management to run the team on the cheap.

"All you have to do is live in the city of Buffalo," which was in danger of losing the Sabres after they went bankrupt, Jacobs said. "You just have to be there with the financial uncertainty that existed about a franchise, and had a great following. And I said, 'This can't happen here."'

Despite being in one of the NHL's healthy markets, the Bruins have routinely let their best players leave for free agency, or traded them away, rather than sign them for what they consider to be inflated market rates.

The Bruins traded future hall of famer Ray Bourque to Colorado so he could have a chance to win a Stanley Cup before he retired.

"Giving him the opportunity to raise that Cup was meaningful to us. That he did it in Colorado was hurtful," Jacobs said. "I have to say I'm very sad to see it. I wish we could have done it in Boston."

Fans wish the Bruins would have built a champion around Bourque in his two decades with the team. But Jacobs said he hasn't hesitated to spend money.

"Our payroll and New Jersey's are almost exactly the same. We just didn't spend it the same," he said. "So it's not a payroll-driven issue, it's a management issue. It will be very interesting when there is a cap and we all have to worry about the way we manage our teams. We'll see how good my management is."

[Shell]

Bettman chastises union
Players will determine if NHL has to blow itself up, commissioner says
By DAVID NAYLOR
Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - Page S3

HULL, QUE. -- National Hockey League commissioner Gary Bettman cranked up the rhetoric regarding the league's looming labour crisis yesterday, accusing the players' union of stalling negotiations and insisting that cost certainty be the focus when discussions do get under way.

"It's not a radical idea for management and labour to negotiate over the costs of labour," Bettman said. "That's what virtually every union in the world negotiates over. Even in basketball and football the unions negotiate what share of the pie the players are going to get. These are not radical concepts.

"The difference between whether or not we are going to preserve what we have and grow, or whether we're going to blow it up and start over is really the union's call."

Bettman made the remarks at the first day of the Canada Sports Forum, a meeting of Canadian sports and business leaders at which NHL labour issues were a central topic.

The NHL's current deal with its players, signed in January of 1995, expires one year from Monday. Hockey is the only professional sport that exists without any form of salary control, either in the form of a hard cap or a luxury tax.

"Everyone knows the game needs a new economic system," Bettman said. "There is no legitimate dispute on that point. I promise a new system can and will be attained."

When the NHL signed its existing agreement with its players in 1995 after a four-month lockout, the deal was hailed by many as a victory for the owners. The advent of a rookie salary cap and the establishment of unrestricted free agency for players after age 31 were considered huge concessions by the players. However, since that time, the NHL's average salary has outpaced any significant revenue growth by the league.

Bettman suggested yesterday that the owners were mistaken in the belief that restricting free agency would slow the escalation of salaries.

"When we signed the last collective bargaining agreement, we thought it would work because it was then and is now the most restrictive collective bargaining agreement relating to player movement," he said. "In our game, you've basically got to be 31 years old before you can become unrestricted. In the other three major sports you can get free in three or four years, give or take. And so we thought our restricted free agency was going to be something that would slow down the inflation of salaries.

"For a lot of reasons, the skill of the union to direct to the marketplace, the skill of the agents in representing their clients, the pressures which were brought to bear by fans, the media or the economic system itself, caused teams to spend in ways that just didn't make sense. But having had the most restrictive collective bargaining agreement absent cost certainty, it now has become clear to us that the only way that you can fix it is not with just dealing with the free-agent market or the other things we put in place in '94. You need to have cost certainty because nothing else seems to work.

"If you look at the leagues that seem to be performing well franchise by franchise from an economic certainty, they all have some measure of cost certainty."

Other hockey officials who attended yesterday's sessions included Montreal Canadiens owner George Gillett, Ottawa Senators president Roy Mlakar and NHL executive vice-president Bill Daly. NHL Players Association boss Bob Goodenow declined an invitation to speak at the forum.

Throughout the day, there was the general sense that everyone in hockey management views the end of the collective agreement as an opportunity to fix the game.

"We have a goal line of 2004," said Edmonton Oilers president Pat LaForge. "Our owners have set that goal line, management, [general manager] Kevin Lowe, the organization. We'll do what we have to do to get there."

Each of the hockey executives at the forum yesterday were careful to avoid suggesting that a work stoppage would occur. At the same time, Bettman took aim at union rhetoric, which he said seems to be assuming the league is headed for a shutdown.

"I have heard recent comments by the union and players who say they expect a work stoppage of anywhere from a season to a season and a half or even longer. Why on earth would anyone say that?

"For me, I prefer to stay in the moment. I'm looking for a fight. I'm looking for a solution to the economic issues confronting our game.

"Idle threats will not address these issues. We have a year remaining on the current collective bargaining agreement and, used properly, that is more than ample time in which to negotiate a new agreement."

"The National Hockey League has been prepared and remains prepared to begin formal collective bargaining negotiations on a moment's notice.

"We are optimistic that at some point -- preferably sooner rather than later -- the players' association will join with us and begin working towards the future. The players' association knows exactly where things stand on the issues that need to be resolved and we fully know the union's view. Since the players' association has not yet prepared to begin addressing the league's problems, they apparently see no point in beginning formal talks."

[Jeff O Rocks]

I so hope they can settle this thing....I went nuts this summer and I know all of you did too waiting for the new season............having to wait a whole year!!?? :cry:

[Guyute]

"wait a year" ? no. if there's a lockout for an entire year, the league is pretty much finished.

the question is... are there enough players in the union to make all the others realize that.

baseball, several years ago, had 10x the fan-base/coverage that the NHL had/has (if not more). now there are teams that can't afford to operate, because nobody goes to games.

STRIKES RUIN SPORTS.

let's hope the players get off their high-horses and agree to take a menial cut in pay in order to keep the NHL going.

Props to Bettman for trying to get this started. first good thing he's done in years.

[Jeff O Rocks]

"wait a year" ? no. if there's a lockout for an entire year, the league is pretty much finished.

the question is... are there enough players in the union to make all the others realize that.

baseball, several years ago, had 10x the fan-base/coverage that the NHL had/has (if not more). now there are teams that can't afford to operate, because nobody goes to games.

STRIKES RUIN SPORTS.



Props to Bettman for trying to get this started. first good thing he's done in years.

let's hope the players get off their high-horses and agree to take a menial cut in pay in order to keep the NHL going.

I agree about the strikes ruining sports...I remember the baseball strike and the NFL pulled the same crap years back....greed can really destroy anything! :roll:

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I'm gonna get so sick of hearing this crap from both sides for the next year. At least with Bettman occupied with this maybe he'll leave the damn game alone (read: no more "new" obstruction rules to confuse the refs :roll: )

He better be careful wtih stuff like this:
For a lot of reasons, the skill of the union to direct to the marketplace, the skill of the agents in representing their clients, the pressures which were brought to bear by fans, the media or the economic system itself, caused teams to spend in ways that just didn't make sense.

I'm not saying he's wrong I'm just saying he should watch it with anything that sounds like blaming the fans. It's not gonna help the situation at all.


"If you look at the leagues that seem to be performing well franchise by franchise from an economic certainty, they all have some measure of cost certainty." And, if I'm not mistaken, they all have huge TV revenues. I agree we need a salary cap....but that reasoning doesn't fly with me.

[Guyute]

I think he was saying that even though they DO have huge TV contracts, and much more stability... those other leagues still have some control over costs.

The NHL has neither of those things, which puts it at an astounding risk for failure if this goes badly.

[nccanes]

"If you look at the leagues that seem to be performing well franchise by franchise from an economic certainty, they all have some measure of cost certainty." And, if I'm not mistaken, they all have huge TV revenues. I agree we need a salary cap....but that reasoning doesn't fly with me.

The TV revenues might make the pile of money bigger for the other major sports, but they still have cost certainty. The NHL has none.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Yeah guys, I know. That's why I said we need a salary cap. But the TV revenues are also HUGE for the other major sports. I'm afraid just a salary cap won't even help that much.

And my point was that I hope he has some better reasons behind why he wants it than "everyone else is doing it" since I'm sure the NHLPA will have all kinds of reasons why they shouldn't do it.

[Guyute]

well, I'm sure the league probably has other arguments beside "everyone else does it"... we be in trouble if they don't. lol

really, imo, the only reason they need is that "The league can NOT continue to operate in the financial structure we currently have. If we don't fix this, teams will fold, people will lose jobs, fans will leave.".

What more of an argument do you need? Really none. It's just a question of whether or not the NHLPA is thick-headed enough to think "no, that won't happen. we're fine like we are.". But most of these guys aren't stupid. They know this is a struggling sport. If there is any kind of long-term snag in re-working this, the NHL will never recover. As far as bringing in new fans, we're still in the infancy stage. Yes, a lot of us have been watching hockey (and spending thousands upon thousands of dollars) for 30+ years. But we hockey "lifers" are not enough to keep the league afloat. We need fresh blood. That will likely NEVER happen if the league strikes.
We all know strikes... the viewpoint is always "Damn players aren't happy with $8 mil/year. screw them.". Which means no new blood to the sport. which in turn means the slow painful death of the world's greatest sport.

I'm also sure that what the league wants, is some combo of caps and revenue sharing.. that way, some of the smaller market teams can afford to still operate. Hell, most US teams already share with Canadian teams, because finances are so screwed up b/c of the exchange rate. So, why not just make it so that everyone shares a little.

I'm fairly confident that this will get worked out. I mean, it's SO cut and dry, how can the NHLPA not see what could happen if this goes badly?
What I am worried about... is that the NHLPA doesn't want to discuss this now. Come on, there's an entire year... you should be working on this now, not posturing and waiting for June, so you only have 3 months to get it done. :mad:

[Jeff O Rocks]

If we don't fix this, teams will fold, people will lose jobs, fans will leave.".



That is what I worry about....I have heard several people from the Canes organization state all the losses they are taken and if it continues, the Canes will be gone....they need to encourage more fans not discourage the ones they already have!! :sad:

[talkingcanes]

If we don't fix this, teams will fold, people will lose jobs, fans will leave.".



That is what I worry about....I have heard several people from the Canes organization state all the losses they are taken and if it continues, the Canes will be gone....they need to encourage more fans not discourage the ones they already have!! :sad:

I'm glad they are being up front about not being able to continually take massive losses. I think fans, players, owners, etc. all need to be constantly aware of what's at stake. I agree with Guyute, if the league stays on strike for a year, then they are essentially done. Being well paid for what you do as a player and making money off your team as the owner is one thing and understandable.............unabashed greed is a whole other thing.

[stewart123]

It is disappointing to hear that guaranteed contracts will be considered untouchable in the new CBA. The best model for professional sports is the NFL, which has a hard salary cap, a flexible signing bonus structure, and very few guaranteed contracts.

This allows teams to get out from under the contracts of underperforming veterans without being forced to find another team with the payroll to absorb them. It offers the players an incentive to renegotiate to stay with their team, while rewarding them with up-front bonus money.

Teams are punished for bad signings based on the time it takes to realize that the player wasn't worth it.. but not to the point of removing the team's ability to exist financially. Because of the hard salary cap, a team that makes bad choices ends up with an inexpensive (very young or very old) team that probably doesn't win many games. But at least the existence of the franchise isn't constantly in doubt.

[nccanes]

I've been trying to get a grasp on this whole thing (along with every other hockey fan) and while it's ridiculous for me to try to put it in terms that I might actually experience, I tried to do that.

I know labor unions sometimes strike when they think they are not getting the pay and benefits that they feel they need or entitled to, etc. I get that. But what about people that work at say.....SAS. Jim Goodnight is sitting fat and happy on his money. Do SAS employees say "I make a nice living, but I know you are making so much money Mr. Goodnight, that I think we should strike until you make less and I make more." I mean - isn't that the crux of it? Or should I be looking at it as Jim Goodnight is saying "I don't make as much money as you think I do, so we're going to ask you all to take a salary cut." (Oh wait - that's whats happened to millions of people in America over the last few years - no raises, lost jobs..)

I know it's a very complex issue and the NHLPA doesn't trust the financial claims of the ownership, but good freakin' god - they are making SO much money. If they want to make as much money as they claim the owners are making....then go be a freakin' owner!!

I imagine I'll read some article about the ownership and how they are snakes in the grass sitting on their mountain of money - then I'll be *****ing about them. :p

[Guyute]

well... it's really not like either of those situations.

I haven't seen a #... but I'd say 90% of NHL owners are LOSING money to run their teams. VERY few turn a profit. the only way you have a chance to do that, is by making the conf finals in the playoffs.

So... you have the owners paying these absolutely assinine salaries, while they're also losing 5-15 million per year, just to run the team.

no, owners shouldn't make all the money. but damn, they shouldn't Lose the money either. there's absolutely no reason they should be paying 45-60 million bucks a year to their players and staff... and also taking a beating just to say "Yes, I own an NHL team". It's a minor miracle that Ottawa and Boston still have a team..... and if things don't change.... we'll be able to say the same about almost every single team in the league.
which will, of course, lead to the end of the league.

[Jeff O Rocks]

and if things don't change.... we'll be able to say the same about almost every single team in the league.
which will, of course, lead to the end of the league.

This CANNOT happen!! :cry:

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I haven't seen a #... but I'd say 90% of NHL owners are LOSING money to run their teams.

You really think so? I mean, I do think that people do NOT buy an NHL team to make money because generally they don't. What I guess I'm really asking is do you think that Karmanos (and other owners) are really losing as much as they act like they are? Do you think he's fudging his numbers a bit or is he being completely honest about how much he's lost? And if he is being completely honest why won't he open his books and let us see it? I can understand the players being skeptical about believing the owners when they say they are losing so much money because I'm not even sure I believe them. What'cha think?

And Jeff what the hell are you doing here on a weekend? Is your Ever-crack broken? ;)

[nccanes]

And Jeff what the hell are you doing here on a weekend? Is your Ever-crack broken? ;)

No joke SHC. I scrolled right past his post thinking it HAD to be from before my post - we don't see no steenkin Homer avs on the weekends. :laugh:

[raleighcanesfan]

I can understand the players being skeptical about believing the owners when they say they are losing so much money because I'm not even sure I believe them. What'cha think?


Ok SHC, I'll agree and disagree with you. No, I don't think they're losing as much as they say, but I do think they're losing money. I am sure they have some additional money coming in (whether merchandise, sponsorship, etc) that they do not have to report. They report gate sales, parking, food/drink sales, which would appear like they're losing money. You cannot tell me they do not make a killing on a $200 jersey that costs 30-50 to make. EVERYONE HAS A JERSEY! Add that up.

I think for some owners, it's just the prestige of running a pro team. Look at Mark Cuban. Few remember that he tried to buy the Pens before Lemieux came along. He just wants the action.

Yes, owners (mostly big market teams) may make some profit. Do they make multi-millions? No. Do the players? Yes. For that reason, I take the side of the owners. Yes, players give time and money to charity, but what is the percentage of their salary? A player who donates 10,000 or 100,000 to charity earns our respect, but when they make 2-3 million, plus a few million on endorsements, etc, that's a drop in the bucket. When comparing percentages of paychecks, I think many of us donate more.

Just some randem, pre-season rumblings.

God save us all in 2004.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Oh, I definitely agree with you rcf. The owners are getting screwed by the players big-time no matter what exactly the profits are. I'm just saying I can see where the distrust comes from. The owners whine that they are going down the tubes but we all know Karmanos isn't about to go bankrupt and that they don't reveal all their income.

I think I've said this before...I'm on no one's side. Screw all of them. I want a salary cap AND revenue sharing. Let them both give something. ALL of them need to be thinking about what's best for the sport....not their wallets.

[raleighcanesfan]

Yeah--Let's make it easier for us teachers and life-long students (-; (left-handed wink) to buy season tickets. Both players and owners need a pay cut!

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Yeah--Let's make it easier for us teachers and life-long students (-; (left-handed wink) to buy season tickets.
Exactly!! ;)

[Shell]

I do think that the owners lose a lot of money.. but I also think that is why they buy an NHL team.. it's a helluva tax break for their regular company when they can claim a $20 million loss.

[talkingcanes]

I think owners buy professional teams because they love the sport. They all make their real money in other fields and then purchase teams. The tax break may be a perk, but I don't think it's why they buy teams. Karmanos may not be on the verge of bankruptcy, but I think he's losing a lot of money on this team every year. I also think he genuinely loves the game of hockey.

How much would the team (read owner) make on a jersey? It does cost $200 and I'm not saying there's not a profit, but there would also be a lot of hands in the profit pot starting with the manufacturer. I really have no idea so I'm asking!

[Guyute]

ah, I see I've trained y'all to not expect posts from me on the weekend. that's good. now I don't feel so bad. ;)

just about all owners have some other major business besides a team. so, they get to funnel funds back and forth, when needed or whatever, in order to get better tax breaks, pump stocks, absorb loses, etc... I think that has a lot to do with why books are not public domain. just a theory though.

[Shell]

Bruins owner: Ticket prices too high
Associated Press
9/12/2003

WILMINGTON, Mass. (AP) - Ticket prices are too high and the next collective bargaining agreement with players should be aimed at keeping them from rising again, says Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs.

The current labour contract expires next September. NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has indicated that owners need a way to contain salaries that now cost them 75 per cent of their revenue.

The Bruins increased ticket prices for the coming season by an average of two to three per cent. Their $99 top price is one of the lowest in the league, Bruins spokeswoman Heidi Holland said.

``Ticket prices are too darn high,'' said Jacobs. ``Our prices are high.

``We've been chasing away the fans with it over the last couple of years. or every dollar that we've increased ticket prices, we've spent more than two on a player.

``So we recognize we've got a problem. I hope that the commissioner in the next CBA is able to reach an agreement that allows us to stabilize the ticket prices and perhaps even lower them because I think we are chasing away a lot of our ticket base.''

The remarks came during an interview at the Bruins' annual media day. Three weeks earlier, he spoke in Boston at a breakfast with owners John Henry of the Red Sox, Wyc Grousbeck of the Celtics and Robert Kraft of the New England Patriots.

Before then, it was believed that Jacobs, a resident of Buffalo, N.Y., hadn't given an interview with Boston media members for more than three years.

``I probably do regret that I'm not here more,'' Jacobs told reporters Friday. ``Boston is a spectacular community.

``The fans are passionate. Your media are passionate. You're a bunch of passionate people, aren't you? You all look passionate to me.''

He spoke with forthrightness and humour, unexpected qualities from a businessman with a reputation of caring more about profits than the playoffs.

Jacobs said that's a misconception. He isn't seen much at Bruins games because he usually sits in a luxury box, he said.

``If I was downstairs I couldn't tolerate it,'' he said. ``I have to be in a place I can walk around.

``Otherwise, I'd go nuts.''

He also said a high player payroll doesn't always correlate with on-ice success.

The New Jersey Devils, who won the Stanley Cup last season, have a payroll pennies apart from that of the Bruins, he said.

``They got a better group of players for the same bucks than we did,'' Jacobs said.

He expressed confidence in Bruins president Harry Sinden, who has been with the team since becoming general manager in 1972.

``I've worked with Harry my whole hockey career and I don't second guess him too often,'' Jacobs said.

He's also pleased that, with the uncertainty of the labour situation, general manager Mike O'Connell signed most players only through the coming season. Marty Lapointe is the only veteran with a longer contract.

``Our team is going to be better positioned because of the short-term contracts,'' Jacobs said. ``I can't talk about other teams because then again I'd get fined.''

Bettman was upset when Jacobs referred to a salary cap at the breakfast on Aug. 22 held to raise money for the Jimmy Fund, dedicated to children with cancer. Jacobs indicated Friday that he was fined for those remarks. Bettman prefers the term cost-certainty to salary cap.

O'Connell said one-year contracts give the team flexibility during the labour uncertainty.

Bob Goodenow, the NHL Players' Association executive director, has indicated the union won't accept a hard salary cap and warned some players an impasse might last longer than a full season.

For this season, Jacobs said he may be more visible in Boston but the team's success will have more to do with how many fans turn out.

``We've got to take a run at the (Stanley) Cup to get their interest,'' he said. ``This community will react to a winner.''

[Guyute]

Bob Goodenow, the NHL Players' Association executive director, has indicated the union won't accept a hard salary cap and warned some players an impasse might last longer than a full season.

Someone, for the love of God, get me an hour with Bob. :mad:
can he REALLY be that stupid? this league is struggling you go on strike (don't insult us by using the word impasse) for part of a season, that's bad enough... but more than a full season.... and YOU'LL GET NOTHING. There will be no league!

:mad:

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Surely to GOD he's just mouthing off trying to put some fear into the owners and position himself for the bargaining. :crazy: I hate to hear it too but I'm hoping he doesn't believe a word of what he's saying is really going to happen. I just wish they'd go ahead and start the discussions soon. That's the point where Bob is really pissing me off! :mad:

[crazy4canes]

Bob Goodenow, the NHL Players' Association executive director, has indicated the union won't accept a hard salary cap and warned some players an impasse might last longer than a full season.

Someone, for the love of God, get me an hour with Bob. :mad:
can he REALLY be that stupid? this league is struggling you go on strike (don't insult us by using the word impasse) for part of a season, that's bad enough... but more than a full season.... and YOU'LL GET NOTHING. There will be no league!

:mad:

You said it. :sad:

[talkingcanes]

maybe the players need to decide if they want Bob speaking for them. they also need to decide if they want to be part of the destruction of the NHL. after all, they will have a harder time finding a job than a big mouth lawyer will.

[nccanes]

Sounds like the NHLPA President and Executive Director need to sit down and chat...

NHLPA president Linden optimistic work stoppage can be avoided
September 15, 2003
VERNON, British Columbia (AP) -- NHL players' union president Trevor Linden is optimistic a confrontation with the NHL owners can be avoided.

If a deal can't be reached on a new collective bargaining agreement, however, the Vancouver Canucks forward said in a radio interview that a work stoppage could be lengthy.

``Any time you talk about a collective agreement, it takes two sides to work things through,'' Linden told The Score. ``I'm hoping that will be the case. I'm optimistic that we won't have a work stoppage, but it's always a possibility.''

The current contract between the NHL and its players expires Sept. 15, 2004. Next season would be threatened if a new agreement can't be reached.

``It's unfair to speculate right now,'' Linden added. ``I don't know what course things may take. Obviously the ownership side has some concerns and I think the players would like to look at those and try and solve them. If it becomes a my way or the highway type of thing, it could get dragged out.''

Since the 1994-95 season, the average NHL salary has risen from $733,000 to $1.79 million a year in 2002-03. One of the major issues for the new agreement will be the owners' desire for some sort of salary control, a notion the players reject.

Several high-profile free agents, including Adam Graves, Steve Thomas, Cliff Ronning and Adam Oates didn't sign contracts this summer as teams kept a close watch on their budgets.

Linden said this shows the system works without a salary cap.

``The market sometimes determines what the players make,'' he said.

``That's what the players have always thought the way it should be. The players will make what teams are willing to pay them. Teams set budgets for themselves and want to keep themselves to that. To set an artificial number takes the integrity out of it for the players.''


Okay, someone check my math.

1994: $733,000
2003: $1,790,000

Equals = 244% increase???

I don't give a rip what the owners are making. Suck it up, take your 244% raise over 10 years, and play the freakin' game. :mad:

[nccanes]

Several high-profile free agents, including Adam Graves, Steve Thomas, Cliff Ronning and Adam Oates didn't sign contracts this summer as teams kept a close watch on their budgets.

Linden said this shows the system works without a salary cap.


Oates - 41 years old
Thomas - 40 years old
Ronning - 38 years old
Graves - "only" 35 years old

Great examples. :roll:

[Guyute]

Great examples. :roll:

my thoughts exactly.

what about the 30 or so (random guess) guys that are making over 7 mil a season?
:roll:

[SouthernHockeyChick]

what about the 30 or so (random guess) guys that are making over 7 mil a season?
:roll:

That was MY thought exactly. If you want to throw some random names out there we can sure make it look a lot worse than those 4! :roll:

[talkingcanes]

How about Giguere for one.

02-03 $900,000
03-04 $4,000,000

increase 444%


He's just the one that sticks in my mind because it was so recent. And he's not even in the $7 million dollar neighborhood.

[talkingcanes]

How about the reaction to Lehtinen's taking "less than market value"?


Lehtinen's value rises with Stars
Mac Engel , StarTelegram Staff Writer

VAIL, Colo. - "If [Jere Lehtinen] is not one of the top paid players on this team in a couple of years, something is wrong."
-- Stars center Mike Modano on Jan. 8, 2003 .

So was Mike Modano surprised when Jere Lehtinen signed a three-year extension that will pay him $3.65 million per season?

"Surprised? How about ultimately shocked," Modano said. "I was thinking he'd get at least 6 or 7 million a year. At least double what he was making. That's what I thought. I don't know what happened on the way there. I don't have a clue."

Although the NHL Players' Association would surely disagree, nothing was wrong when Lehtinen signed a three-year extension that kicks in next season and will almost guarantee he is not one of the highest paid Stars in a couple of years.

In the show-me-the-money era, Lehtinen is actually sincere when he says it's not about the cash. He also did the Stars one big favor, and irritated some of the union brothers.

"I thought maybe I could wait and see what's out there. But we have a good team here, and in the future we'll have the chance to win Stanley Cups," said Lehtinen, who agreed to the extension on Sept. 4. It works out to a raise of about $1 million from the $2.6 million he's set to make this season. "I thought it was a fair contract."

Had Lehtinen done as expected and played out the final year of his contract, he would have been eligible for unrestricted free agency July 1, 2004. Big money would probably have followed that morning.

After winning his third Selke Trophy last season as the NHL's top defensive forward and scoring a career-high 31 goals, Lehtinen could have commanded a deal worth well over $6 million per season.

This is a player who has averaged 23.8 goals in five of the past six seasons, and is revered league wide.

"I think he is one of the best in the league in the corners," said Montreal Canadiens forward Saku Koivu, a fellow Finn. "He makes a center's job so much easier. And he still scores 25 to 30 goals a year, which is a lot."

Although the collective bargaining agreement expires in September and a salary cap looms, Lehtinen's ability could have been attractive enough for some GMs to disregard the NHL's uncertain financial state and woo him.

The Stars took away that possibility.

That Lehtinen signed well under market value is a big lift for the Stars as they head into a new CBA. His contract opens the chance they could keep one of their handful of free agents, or add a new higher-dollar name down the line.

"It's his decision. Not his agent and not the Players' Association. It's what he's happy with," Stars general manager Doug Armstrong said. "Sometimes players have more in mind than the dollar. And now we're secure to have the knowledge that we'll be a strong team going into the CBA, and coming out of it."

Lehtinen's reasons were simple, and his own.
He likes it in Dallas. His family likes it in Dallas.
The team wins.

How much money did he actually need?

"He wants to do his things," Koivu said. "It's just his way."

But shortly after Lehtinen agreed to the deal, there were rumblings from players that he did a disservice to future free agents. That by agreeing to less, it provides other GMs the reasoning to say, "Jere Lehtinen signed for this, and you aren't as good as Jere Lehtinen."

The point isn't lost on Lehtinen.

"That is a big thing, and I understand that. But I am very happy," Lehtinen said. "Now I can just play and not worry about the contract."

Much to the delight of the Stars, and to the surprise of Modano.

[Guyute]

good for Jere.

I have a proposal. Let the guys who want to PLAY, and don't care if they "only" make 3-4 million, play. And the guys who "have to" have 7+ million.... sit next year out and figure out if they'd rather make nothing, and lose they sport they supposedly love... or come back and play for a reasonable (ha!) amount of money.

argh.

[Shell]

NHL teams post $300 million in losses
Associated Press
9/19/2003

NEW YORK (AP) - NHL teams posted record losses of nearly $300 million US last season, according to figures distributed to owners this summer.

That was an increase of 35 per cent from the $218 million in operating losses incurred by the league last year.

The losses are blamed on soaring player salaries. Without a salary cap, the NHL spent 76 per cent of $1.93 billion in revenue on players salaries and benefits. That is a greater percentage than in the NBA, NFL or major league baseball.

"This is a level at which no business can survive," Bill Daly, the NHL's chief legal officer, told the Wall Street Journal in an article about league finances. "The league will lose teams and players will lose jobs if we can't fix this."

The NHL would not comment further to The Associated Press.

The league will seek what commissioner Gary Bettman calls "cost certainty," in bargaining a new collective agreement with its players' association. The current deal expires in September 2004 and there are expectations that negotiations will be stormy, possibly resulting in a strike or lockout.

The NHL locked out players for 103 days in 1994 and reportedly has assembled a $300-million war chest as it prepares for contract talks.

[nccanes]

Wow - this would be surprising. But welcomed!

From TSN.ca

10/1/2003
The NHL and the NHL Players' Association have begun talks on a new Collective Barganing Agreement, according to the Globe and Mail.

An NHL source tells the newspaper that members of the NHLPA executive committee led by Vancouver's Trevor Linden are meeting with NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and a handful of owners at the league office in Toronto located adjacent to the Air Canada Centre.

NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow is also believed to be at the meeting, the first between players and owners concerning a new CBA agreement, which is scheduled to expire next September.

Officials and lawyers from both sides have met to discuss the CBA more than a dozen times since last January. Wednesday is believed to be the first face to face meeting between players and owners concerning the CBA.

Stay tuned for more details

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Now THAT would be some awesome news!!!! :spin:

[Guyute]

That would be some great news. there's really not a lot of time. I mean, obviously there's not going to be a whole lot of face to face meetings during the season... which means Oct to April is shot... and more likely... until almost July. Which really just leaves a few months of solid face to face time.

[Shell]

Players, owners meet for first time in labor talks Oct. 1, 2003
SportsLine.com wire reports

TORONTO -- NHL players and owners met for the first time Wednesday in an effort to work out a labor agreement.

The current agreement is set to expire next September and there are expectations that negotiations will be stormy, possibly resulting in a lockout.

Bob Goodenow, the NHPA's executive director, said there have been a dozen or so meetings between the NHLPA and the NHL since January, but this was the first that included players and owners.

The NHLPA requested the meeting and Ottawa forward Daniel Alfredsson said they made a proposal.

"This is the first meeting where players and owners attended. I think it really addressed what we need to know," Alfredsson said. "They addressed their concerns and I think we made a proposal that addresses their concerns."

Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs, Nashville Predators owner Craig Leipold and Carolina Hurricanes owner Peter Karmanos attended the meeting as well as NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly.

Alfredsson, Trevor Linden of the Vancouver Canucks, Bill Guerin of the Dallas Stars, Vincent Damphousse of the San Jose Sharks, Bob Boughner of the Hurricanes and Goodenow were among those who represented the players.

Alfredsson and Goodenow wouldn't go into specifics about the meeting, which lasted several hours.

"There is a lot of work to be done," Goodenow said.

Goodenow requested a meeting over a round of golf with Bettman in September.

Daly said Wednesday's meeting was informational.

"Cost certainty came up. We had a discussion of the issues," Daly said. "We both exchanged ideas on how to resolve the issues."

Daly said there remains major differences.

"We have a philosophical divide that we have to bridge and if we ever get our arms around that issue everything else can fall into place quickly," Daly said when asked about a salary cap and cost certainty. "This league can't survive in its current form without a revolutionary change to the economic system."

Daly said the sides will be touch in the coming days. Another meeting has yet to be scheduled.

He said both sides don't want a work stoppage.

"We're trying to avoid that," Daly said. "We don't want either side to be in a corner facing a time deadline. That's why I do believe there's urgency to get these talks going. Today was another step in that process."

The NHL locked out players for 103 days in 1994 and reportedly has assembled a $300 million war chest.

Alfredsson said he's optimistic another work stoppage can be avoided.

"For the good of the game we want to avoid it," Alfredsson said "Everybody knows both sides are prepared for a lockout, but both sides want to work to avoid it."

[Shell]

Tuesday, October 7, 2003
Respect for game, fans, each otehr is key
By Terry Frei
Special to ESPN.com

At least NHL and Players Association representatives are talking, beyond Gary Bettman and Bob Goodenow's visits to the golf course -- which is not always a great forum for communication. ("You're away, Bob." "No, you are, Gary." "What? Bob, are you blind?" "What's it matter, Gary? You'll just make up the numbers on the scorecard, anyway!")

But the beginning of formal negotiations, while both overdue and a step forward, shouldn't fool anyone.

Before he was buried under one of the nets in Continental Airlines Arena (you believe your legend, I'll believe mine) Jimmy Hoffa used to talk with industry insiders as Teamster contracts were expiring, too.

There are ways for Gary Bettman and the NHL to control the damage of drawn-out negotiations.
And, still the strikes came.

This still has every appearance of a lockout coming down next year. It won't do the NHL irreparable damage. Repeatedly, the game has shown its ability to withstand the cheap shots doled out by the folks in the business.

The wails about work stoppages in all major-league sports inevitably becoming their undoing never have been borne out, though every time someone is there to gloomily proclaim: "But this time, it's different."

No. It's not.

If teams fold or otherwise disappear after the next collective bargaining agreement goes into effect, that will be reflective of the same economic systems in which the owners (or their families) became rich enough to buy their franchises.

Contraction wouldn't be irreparable damage.

It would be a market correction.

The Players Association can't be so pigheaded to ignore the fact that some sort of flexibility, most likely in acquiescing to a luxury tax that will give owners more incentive to control themselves, will be necessary to maintain the number of NHL jobs.

But as the lockout approaches -- it's inevitable; the only question is how long it will last -- the NHL should be positioning itself to do all it can to mitigate the cost. By "cost," we're only indirectly talking about dollars and cents, but more about credibility and sense.

Here are some suggestions:

1. Don't ask without delivering
Bettman should order teams to delay sending out season-ticket renewal invoices next year for 2004-05, or at least to not require anything beyond modest deposit payments until after an agreement on a new collective bargaining agreement is reached.

The modest payment holds the account in the rights-holder's name.

That's all.

It's insulting to require fans to make very expensive payments for a product that might not be available, and for owners to reap the interest. It doesn't matter that at some point, the payments will be applied to real games after the lockout ends.


2. Don't fight in front of the kids
Stay away from the "he-said, she-said," finger pointing and silly posturing often prevalent in sports bargaining periods. Have enough class to at least grant that the other side wants what's best for the sport, at least as defined from its own side of the table.


3. It's OK to highlight the 'me' in 'team'
Get more teams to back off this "all-for-one" traditional hockey mentality and do more promotion, both official and subtle, of the game's younger stars -- the players who will be around for years after the lockout ends. Start with Joe Thornton, Marian Gaborik, Milan Hejduk, Jarome Iginla, Marian Hossa, Roberto Luongo, Jean-Sebastien Giguere, Vincent Lecavalier, Olli Jokinen and Ilya Kovalchuk -- and perhaps include Dany Heatley if and when he's ready. And those are just a few examples.


4. Hit pause with a bang
This is an old story, but wouldn't it be great if the final season before the lockout was a high-energy success? The mistake too often made is to measure that with the scoring numbers only. More important is the feeling that the ice has opened up, the forecheckers given more ability to operate, and that the obstruction, clutching and grabbing are diminished to the point where you're getting to see the great players at their best.

That takes gumption on the part of a lot more than the referees, of course. The most overlooked aspect is that if the coaches and player start to apply the standards across the board themselves and stop griping when the necessary call is made in the final three minutes, the chances of the crackdowns remaining in force greatly increase.

Isn't it funny how teams continue to complain about how their stars are targeted, often by the opposing top defensive pair, yet see nothing contradictory in the fact that they send out their top pair to fold, spindle and mutilate the other teams' stars?

When the men within the game show it more respect, that will be a huge step. And if it can happen this year, with the lockout looming, maybe it can give the fans some hope through the wait.


5. Play nice ... now
Actually, the smartest move of all would be to make gloomy stories like this one -- and all the others that take a lockout and a work stoppage as givens next season -- look ridiculous in retrospect.

Get the damn thing settled. Look, we all know a hard cap is an impossibility, and the compromise that will come out is some sort of luxury tax that makes it doubly painful to exceed a certain payroll figure, and also perhaps help the owners control those to "blame" for the salary structure -- themselves.

[Shell]

Report: Owners reject pay cut proposal
TSN.ca Staff
10/16/2003

NHL owners recently rejected a proposal from the players in talks aimed at working out a new collective bargaining agreement.

The Rocky Mountain News reports owners turned down the offer which included an immediate 5-percent pay cut on behalf of the union. Instead, the owners are set to push for a hard salary cap of $31-million.

NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow, union negotiators and player agents are expected to meet at the end of the month to discuss their next step in the bargaining process.

The union has stated repeatedly that it will not accept a salary cap as part of any new agreement.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has been preaching for months, on behalf of the owners, that a cap is needed to bring the league's economics under control. Owners have reportedly told Bettman that a cap of $35-million would be ideal while some smaller-market teams are prepared to go with a cap as high as $38-million.

Using last year's figures, 14 of the NHL's 30 clubs had payrolls over $40-million.

Since the last collective bargaining agreement was signed in 1995, the average NHL salary has tripled to more more than $1.8-million.

[Guyute]

$31 mil will never happen. it's too low. $35 is pretty fair though. I could see $38, but I dunno that the owners would go from $31 up to $38.

doesn't sound like the players are going to take any cap though, so it might not matter.

but, offering a 5% pay cut?? lmao. yeah, that should save the league. :roll:

[Shell]

Thu, October 30, 2003
Goodenow rallies agents
By Sun Media and CP

With the National Hockey League's collective bargaining agreement set to expire Sept. 15, NHLPA president Bob Goodenow met with some of the league's most powerful agents in Toronto yesterday to discuss the state of negotiations with NHL owners. While details of the meeting remain mostly confidential, it doesn't sound as if Goodenow's message left player agents with much hope that a deal with NHL commissioner Gary Bettman will materialize soon.

Though the players are willing to make concessions in an attempt to jumpstart negotiations with the league, indications are Bettman is determined to get a $31-million US salary cap and isn't willing to budge.

"If the starting point in negotiations is a salary cap, then there isn't going to be a starting point," IMG Hockey's J.P. Barry said yesterday.

"I can't really say much more, but I would say that was the message we received."

Some of the most powerful player agents were on hand, including Ottawa's Larry Kelly, Toronto's Don Meehan, Edmonton's Ritch Winter, Barry and partner Pat Brisson.

[Jillsdad]

First off i think a lot of this is posing for the press. While I agree that 31 mill is too low I think 35 to 38 million is reasonable and could probably get it done. Jeremy Roenick was on PTI last night and basically said that many of the contracts in the NHL had gotten out of hand.(This is coming from a player) He said something to the effect that to get paid 8 or 10 or 11 million dollars toplay a game you love to play is a bit excessive he thought. If he can convince other players to think the same way and realize what will happen to the game ifthe lockout occurs then I believe it can be averted. PLus WE THE FANS can have our day also. Just like baseball fans made it be known that if a strike happened they were not coming back, we can write the league and the union and let them know that if a lockout occurs we will not come back. We hold the power, especially with the NHL because we are the main source of revenue, not some big TV contract.

[Shell]

The war of the words
Kara Yorio
Dec. 8, 2003

With about nine months left before the collective bargaining agreement expires, the labor dispute is becoming more of a public confrontation. To get both sides of the story, the Sporting News spoke with the second in command on each side: Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice president and chief legal officer, and Ted Saskin, the NHL Players' Association senior director of business affairs and licensing.

Daly lays out a case based on hard numbers. He has pie charts and percentages and a PowerPoint presentation that shows the league will be in trouble if expenses continue to rise at the current rate.

The NHL wants to bring down the costs related to the players -- salaries, bonuses, per diems, pensions, insurance coverage and other benefits.

For its part, the NHLPA proposed a clause for the new collective bargaining agreement that included a luxury tax. Daly says the league found the proposal "interesting," but it was looking for "assurances" the system would work. Those assurances meant putting a mechanism in place so player costs would be rolled back if they exceeded a certain percentage of team revenue. Daly won't say what percentage the league is targeting, but it's believed to be about 60. In the NFL, player costs represent 64 percent of revenue; in baseball, it's 63 percent; and in the NBA, it's 58 percent. Daly says the union does not want any part of that proposal.

"That's not something they've even indicated a willingness to talk about at this point," he says.

Speaking of talking, Bob Goodenow, executive director of the NHLPA, is currently on his annual fall tour of NHL cities, updating the players on various issues, including the CBA negotiations. Daly says the dissemination of information is a key.

"It's important that the players understand to the greatest extent possible what the facts are," Daly says. "We're confident the facts lead to a certain solution."

Daly's facts are based on what are called the Unified Reports of Operations (URO), in which each team declares its hockey-related income and expenses. The NHLPA's Saskin told the Sporting News the association doesn't believe those numbers, which surprises Daly.

"That is inconsistent with what he has told us privately," Daly says. "When I say that, I should qualify it by saying they have raised isolated concerns with some of our clubs with the URO and have acknowledged that the URO as a whole is a materially accurate portrayal of industry health. ... They have never, ever raised any issue with respect to the methodology of the UROs."

Armed with the data from the UROs, Daly makes his case by comparing the 1992-93 season, which was under the previous CBA, with 2002-03, which was under the current CBA.

All of these numbers are from the NHL: From 1992-93 through 2002-03, a period in which the league added six teams and a corresponding number of new jobs for players, revenues increased 163 percent, and player costs increased 252 percent. Player costs went from 57 percent of revenue to 76 percent.

The league says the current system cannot self-correct -- meaning it's not as simple as the owners not offering money they don't have to the players. The league contends a fundamental change in the economic system must take place because player costs have gotten out of hand and are threatening to destroy the NHL. League officials say they have the numbers to prove it. If you trust their numbers.


Saskin doesn't believe the numbers.

"Absolutely not," he says. "The financial reporting you get from the National Hockey League is only as good as the information they get from each team in what is an unaudited and voluntary submission. And the old adage 'Garbage in, garbage out' is unfortunately an apt description of the current system they have in place. We have numerous examples of teams simply putting down 'zero' for luxury suites, concessions and other items. You can't take that kind of reporting seriously."

Saskin says the league's declaration of player costs percentages to revenue is based on what the individual teams decide to declare as "hockey-related income." He says if the league wants to use financial data to make its case, it needs to back up those data with real numbers -- not the URO numbers but numbers attained by opening the books to the media and fans and seeing what he calls the "actual" numbers for each team.

"The reason they don't do that is because I think it would be obvious to anyone reviewing them that they are, on their face, incomplete financial statements," he says.

However, the Kings did just that -- they opened their books to a fan who was a financial analyst -- and the findings showed that the Kings would lose more money than they said and they were not misrepresenting revenue.

The NHLPA has received the 30 UROs. In 1999 and 2000, it examined four teams -- Buffalo, Montreal, Boston and Los Angeles -- in markets of various sizes to have a basis for comparison.

"We went and requested further information that spoke to a lot of the related entities and disclosed a lot of revenue sources that clearly were not being counted in the URO process," Saskin says. "Just on those four teams alone, we saw a swing of $50 million toward profitability. That's only on four out of 30 teams. ... They now say we were looking at things that don't relate to the hockey business, but that's absurd."

The NHLPA says in "most situations" when the arena and team have common ownership, those owners are not showing arena revenues as related to hockey. And Saskin says the union's problem with the UROs was reiterated in the last meeting between the two sides, in Toronto.

"At the October 1 meeting, we raised a number of examples with the league, and their only response was 'We can make adjustments for that in the URO,' " Saskin says. "So they know the problems in their only reporting mechanism; they were prepared to make adjustments. You wouldn't adjust something if you didn't feel there were problems there."

All of this back-and-forth creates an antagonistic relationship, which, as much as anything, could push the NHL past the brink.

"The league has chosen a tack, going back a few years ago, to make the financial situation a big issue," Saskin says. "It's their positioning to be quite selective in the type of financial data they use and rely, on and that's made it more adversarial than it need be.

"At the end of the day, the critical thing for us is we've made it very clear that we are prepared to respond to all of their stated concerns, and we're very comfortable that can be done within the context of a marketplace system that doesn't require the type of revolutionary change that the league seems to be intent on attaining through a lockout."

The likelihood of that lockout might be the only message that comes through loud and clear -- and consistently -- from both sides.

[Jeff O Rocks]

The likelihood of that lockout might be the only message that comes through loud and clear -- and consistently -- from both sides.

:sad: :cry: looks like NO hockey next season!! :cry:

[corylav]

I think in the end the owners will win ... so many high-profile players have already come out and said that salaries are out of control. With stuff like that happening, public opinion will shift toward ownership and the players will have to negotiate for some kind of cap (thank god!).

[Sparky]

My very long take on this...

http://www.washingtonhockey.com/200203/features/sc1.htm

I don't have the energy to type it up again here. :roll:

[Guyute]

easy. the owners need to allow audits or an outside accounting firm to prove the #'s are real. then go from there.

if the NHLPA believes the #'s aren't true, and the owners say they are, but won't do anything to prove it... it's a bit of a mexican standoff. this whole thing is about the money. so the owners will have to prove they're doing as badly as they say they are. that's jmo.

[Sparky]

I agree, guyute, it's tough to look at this objectively when you can't see the facts behind it.

Example:

The Caps are supposedly losing over $20 million/season. That is correct if you look at the Caps organization itself. The owner of the team, though, is not losing that much on them due to the way revenue is channeled.

Concessions, advertising, luxury boxes and parking revenues from the MCI Center to to Washington Sports & Entertainment, Abe Pollin's group of which Ted Leonsis et alt are part owners. Lincoln Holdings, Leonsis' group, owns the Caps. Lincoln Holdings loses money on the Caps because they've got all the expenses and only normal ticket sales and the non-existant TV/Radio revenue streams. WS&E makes a tidy sum on the Caps as they've got significant revenue streams and virtually none of the expenses.

There's no question the Caps lose money, but I don't believe that the total lost when all the revenues are added up is as high as Leonsis and the NHL report.

Of course, the Caps have a privately funded arena so they are much better off than most teams thanks to the much-maligned but brilliant Abe Pollin. Publicly funded arenas are almost universally disasters for their teams financial situations.

[ausoleil]

the owners need to allow audits or an outside accounting firm to prove the #'s are real. then go from there.

Whether or not they would allow this would be interesting -- if they are playing fast and loose with their numbers, not only are there major CBA ramifications, but major legal ones as well. The US and Canadian government would probably take a dim view of tax underpayments due to misrepresentation. In other words, an owner might go to jail...IF they were cooking their books.

I personally think that the owners have a point in what they are saying, but that they may indeed be overstating their position in order to gain bargaining leverage. Not a single owner in the NHL is a financial idiot, they all made lots of money in their "other" businesses.

[Guyute]

I agree completely. I'm on the owner's side in this. there does need to be some form of fiscal responsibility. and paying players $11 million a year is not that.

however, as a way to facilitate talks, I think the owners need to do something to prove to the NHLPA that the #'s are real. Make the players see that you're really losing that much money, and the deal will be MUCH easier to get done.

if I go to buy a Yugo and the guy on the other side of the table is saying "I'm sorry, we as a dealership paid $22k for this vehicle, so we can't let it go for any less than that." I'd want to see the dealers invoice before saying "ok sure, 22k is fine, I'll take your word that you paid $22k for this lovely Yugo."

obviously you'd know the guy across the table is lying in order to get more money. from a players' standpoint.... I think it's much the same.

opening the true records is going to be a HUUUUGE part in this, imho.

[Jeff O Rocks]

Other sports don't help this at all....when you think about what hockey players make and all the physical tolls their bodies take..and then look at LeBron James and baseball players that stand and catch the ball.... :eek: :eek: I do think they are ALL very fortunate to do what they love and make ANY money for it..how lucky is that??

[caveman]

I agree completely. I'm on the owner's side in this. there does need to be some form of fiscal responsibility. and paying players $11 million a year is not that.

Nobody is forcing the owner to pay $11 million a year for a player. If the owner chooses to offer a $11 million contract, and then the owner wants to cry about paying the players too much, sorry, that's a load of baloney. Can't afford to pay this player $11 million? Then don't offer him the contract.

The problem is not just one of fiscal responsibility -- it is a problem of fiscal inequality. Owner A cannot afford to pay player B $11 million, but owner C can and will. So owner A either pays the $11 million which he can't afford to keep player B, or he goes out and overpays player D at $5 million just to get "somebody" and stay competitive.

It's more complicated that just saying, "OK, so we shouldn't allow owner C to spend so much money." The NHLPA doesn't like it, because then certainly some players would be paid millions less than they are currently getting paid. The owners of the wealthy teams don't like it, because they have a lot of money, rich TV contract, etc, why shouldn't they be able to spend it on players?

The key to any agreement will be convincing both sides that some kind of salary cap/revenue sharing/luxury tax isn't just best for the sport, but that it is best for them. However the owners of the "huge market" teams won't be easily convinced that any system which takes away their purchasing power is helping them, any more than the NHLPA can be easily convinced that any system which lowers salaries is helping them.

So, both sides will feel some pain for about a year when we have no NHL. What needs to happen is that the vast majority of players who actually need and want paychecks next year, and the vast majority of owners who don't have 2nd and 3rd pro teams to fall back on, need to get together, because combined they have more of the chips than they might realise.

[Guyute]

ahh yes, the ole "nobody is forcing him to pay x # of dollars on that player" argument.

well... in most cases... yes, that owner is forced Somewhat. how often does a team at the bottom of the list as far as salary goes, win the cup?

the pressure to have a team performing, and to get your team in the playoffs, if not ultimately, the Cup.... is monstrous, and yes, most Definitely is a reason that some of these teams go over budget.

you can't just say "owners shouldn't spend so much on contracts" and hope this problem will go away. It won't.

[caveman]

ahh yes, the ole "nobody is forcing him to pay x # of dollars on that player" argument.

well... in most cases... yes, that owner is forced Somewhat. how often does a team at the bottom of the list as far as salary goes, win the cup?

the pressure to have a team performing, and to get your team in the playoffs, if not ultimately, the Cup.... is monstrous, and yes, most Definitely is a reason that some of these teams go over budget.

you can't just say "owners shouldn't spend so much on contracts" and hope this problem will go away. It won't.

I didn't say that. I actually went on to say: "So owner A either pays the $11 million which he can't afford to keep player B, or he goes out and overpays player D at $5 million just to get "somebody" and stay competitive."

[ausoleil]

The problem is not just one of fiscal responsibility -- it is a problem of fiscal inequality. Owner A cannot afford to pay player B $11 million, but owner C can and will. So owner A either pays the $11 million which he can't afford to keep player B, or he goes out and overpays player D at $5 million just to get "somebody" and stay competitive.

Ask yourself the same question the NFL did: is it better to have all of the teams in the league competitive (or have the ability to be) in a system of free agency, or is it better to have the same four or five teams battle it out for the championship, year in year out?

The Hurricanes are much like the NFL's Green Bay Packers. The Packers are in a miniscule market relative to the New York Jets, for example, but because of the salary cap and the distribution of all monies (save for in-stadium income) is shared among all teams and all teams can thusly compete. This has given all of the league, Packers included, the ability to vye for any free agent within the structure of the salary cap. And you know what? They won two Super Bowls.

The thing is, it is incumbent on Detroit, Toronto, Colorado, etc., to have every team have a lot of fans interested in their hometown team. Without the Carolinas, Nashvilles, Floridas of the league in healthy shape, it is inevitable that contraction occur and their be fewer games for the "rich big-market" teams to draw income against. Moreover, who is going to go and see the Panthers or the Hurricanes play if you know that they have little to no chance to succeed to the sport's ultimate prize?

[Guyute]

I know. my whole point was that there is still major pressure to spend in order to compete.

there needs to be a ceiling, imvho. period.

[caveman]

I know. my whole point was that there is still major pressure to spend in order to compete.

there needs to be a ceiling, imvho. period.

My problems with a ceiling include come into play when the ceiling is based on something like revenue. If based on average team revenue, do we really want a system where the players would be in favor of increased ticket prices whenever possible?

I've put forward proposals on this site and others, where such a ceiling would be based on average team revenue. So the NHLPA would be motivated to increase team revenue as much as possible, and the NHL owners would be motivated to hide team revenue as much as possible.

Two ways to get around dirty owners: (1) base it solely on ticket revenue which is easily calculated -- the players can tell if the arena is full and can just visit Ticketmaster if they want to know how much tickets are -- and (2) completely open the books of all the NHL owners.

#2 just plain isn't going to happen, and #1 results in a situation where the NHLPA is fighting for higher ticket prices at a stadium very much near you. (On the other even more evil side, the owners might look at such a system and think, hmm... how can we limit ticket revenue? Either selling a lot of really cheap tickets, or how about we raise the prices sky high and nobody can come, that way we don't have to pay the players anything, and we keep all the money from TV, advertising, etc...)

Personally I think owners and players should be able to accept a system with a ceiling based on ticket revenue and the "league-wide" TV deal. It's just what "makes sense".

Example: league-wide average of 15,000 seats at $50 per seat for 41 home games: just about $30 million USD. Let's say the NHL has a TV deal for $1 billion USD, that's another just about $30 million USD per team. So... what should the ceiling be? The NFL sets the salary cap at X% of the DGR (defined gross revenues) (http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp), but this is still just an arbitrary number.

Let's say for example that the ceiling was $40 million USD. Before long, teams like Buffalo, Calgary, etc, would be closing shop because they can only afford $25 million anyway. This would have the effect of raising the ceiling to, say, $45 million USD (the DGR per team would go up after removing the low-revenue teams). Then Ottawa, Florida, etc, would fold after losing money each year, and the ceiling raises to $50 million USD, and so on.

I think that any "ceiling" plan has to include a "soft ceiling" and a "hard ceiling", giving room for a luxury tax which can keep teams like Buffalo and Calgary in business. However at that point, the deal gets complicated enough that both sides find enough things unsettling about it that nobody is happy. There's just so much money out there (yeah, that's our money as fans) that both sides get greedy.

--

EDIT: Just read some FAQ about the NFL cap, apparenty they have a notion of "minimum salary" which I admittedly don't understand quite yet.

[caveman]

Ask yourself the same question the NFL did: is it better to have all of the teams in the league competitive (or have the ability to be) in a system of free agency, or is it better to have the same four or five teams battle it out for the championship, year in year out?

...

The thing is, it is incumbent on Detroit, Toronto, Colorado, etc., to have every team have a lot of fans interested in their hometown team. Without the Carolinas, Nashvilles, Floridas of the league in healthy shape, it is inevitable that contraction occur and their be fewer games for the "rich big-market" teams to draw income against. Moreover, who is going to go and see the Panthers or the Hurricanes play if you know that they have little to no chance to succeed to the sport's ultimate prize?

You don't have to convince me -- you have to convince the owners of Detroit, Toronto, and Colorado, and the NHLPA -- which is, I think, exactly what I said.

[caveman]

Chuck K spent tonight's "Kaiton's Corner" going over the expenses of being an NHL owner: the $2M team travel budget, the $300 composite sticks, etc. Both sides are getting pretty entrenched.

[Guyute]

aye, $300 composite sticks that most players break one almost on a per-game pace. go back to wood already!

[ausoleil]

To add to what I have already said, a point that the NHLPA needs to consider is this one: if indeed the owners are even telling 85% of the truth, and there is no cost-certainty pu in place, there WILL be contraction...and thus fewer jobs.

In other words, if the NHLPA ends up being too greedy, they are going to kill or at best, maim, the golden goose for lots of their members. Fact is that it will be harder to stay at any level of the game because there would be fewer positions at the top end. That means that better players are in the AHL, the ECHL, Europe and everywhere. The journeyman player has a much worse chance of keeping his job at that point.

[Guyute]

I agree completely. and obviously there are WAY more of those types of players than the "elite" players.

no matter what, it's going to be interesting.

[Lady J]

What will happen to the players if the strike results in a lock-out? Will they play in the WHL? The idea that we won't have any hockey to watch next year is maddening.

Steve Yzerman mentioned on ESPN that a bunch of the players had been talking together, trying to decide where they'd go to play, but he threw in that he had spoken to Bobby ( Boughner ) and he thought the players' reps could still garner an agreement of some kind. I'm not even convinced when Steve says it, though.

[Shell]

Gretzky, Lemieux may be key in CBA talks
TSN.ca Staff
1/13/2004

The NHL says two of its greatest players may hold the key to averting a work stoppage this fall.

Vice President Bill Daly says Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux may be called upon to take part in future negotiating sessions with the union.

Gretzky is currently a part-owner of the Phoenix Coyotes while Lemieux holds a stake in the Pittsburgh Penguins but is also a player.

"If we feel they can play a role and help the process, we're not going to rule out anything," Daly told reporters in New York on Monday.

Daly added that while the two sides have yet to meet since last October, a potential negotiating session could be held next month when the two sides meet to discuss the upcoming World Cup of Hockey.

"We've got a meeting scheduled," said Daly. "Whether that turns into a meeting about the CBA, I don't know. It hasn't in the past, but it could. We'll have to see."

Daly says while the league wants to avoid a work stoppage, recent polls indicate support for a lockout is stronger among hockey fans in Canada than in the United States.

The league has maintained that any new deal needs to include some sort of cost-certainty for the owners, which many interpret as a salary cap. The union has said it will not negotiate any deal which includes a salary cap.

In their last meeting on October 1, the NHLPA put forth a proposal for an across-the-board pay cut of 5 per-cent by all players as well as lowering the rookie salary cap. The league replied that the offer did not go far enough.

[Jeff O Rocks]

Gretzky, Lemieux may be key in CBA talks




Hopefully all will listen to these two and they can smooth it out...once they stop bowing at Wayne's feet.. ;)

[4DFan]

So I was over on Boughner's site a couple of days ago and he has an interesting distillation of the CBA situation. http://www.boughner6.com/CBA.html
Among other things
This is what the NHL is looking for:
A salary cap of $31 million per team to allow more profitability for the team Owners

The NHLPA is proposing:
5% cut in salary across the board
NO salary cap
Revenue sharing package
Luxury Tax System
Playoff sharing monies
More restrictive rookie cap


So it got me thinking - what if the players(including veterans) were willing to take a larger pay cut in base salary, say 25%, with a performance bonus of roughly equivalent value if their team makes the playoffs. The theory being that teams that are in the playoff hunt are likely to be playing more exciting hockey and have better income from attendance and can afford the bonuses. If the team is stinking it up they don't get the reward.

[AbNormal27]

...what if the players(including veterans) were willing to take a larger pay cut in base salary, say 25%, with a performance bonus of roughly equivalent value if their team makes the playoffs. The theory being that teams that are in the playoff hunt are likely to be playing more exciting hockey and have better income from attendance and can afford the bonuses. If the team is stinking it up they don't get the reward.

Someone call Gary Bettman and Bob Goodenow.

Aaryn

[talkingcanes]

NHL wants to meet union about CBA

Canadian Press
1/27/2004

BUFFALO, N.Y. (AP) - The NHL would like to resume negotiations with the players' union on a new collective bargaining agreement within the next two weeks.

William Daly, the league's chief legal council, said on Tuesday that he hopes the sides can reconvene at the end of next weekend's all-star festivities in St. Paul, Minn.

``We have made the player's association aware that we are ready to meet at any time,'' Daly said. ``The more dialogue, the more exchange of information, the better understanding one side has of the other's positions ... the more that goes on, the better.''

Commissioner Gary Bettman and union head Bob Goodenow met in New York last week and attended a game together at Madison Square Garden. That broke a stalemate that existed since an Oct. 1 bargaining session in Toronto.

The current CBA, in effect for nearly 10 years, expires Sept. 15. According to the NHL, league revenues have increased 163 per cent while players salaries have jumped 252 per cent during that period.

The league also contends total losses amounted to nearly $300 million last season, just one of the figures the NHLPA doesn't believe.

``The numbers are inaccurate and incomplete,'' said Ted Saskin, the NHLPA's senior director of business affairs.

The NHL wants a new system that guarantees cost certainty, which the union translates as a hard salary cap. That is a solution it will never accept.

``The current system is the most restrictive in pro sports,'' Saskin said. He said that a salary cap is a ``complete non-starter'' for negotiations.

The league said 76 per cent of the revenue earned by member clubs is distributed to the players, the highest proportion in any sport.

In the NBA, players collect 58 per cent of the revenue under a ``soft cap,'' while baseball has a luxury-tax system that doesn't limit payrolls but punishes the big spenders.

``I think a cap would work better,'' Daly said. ``That doesn't mean we're locked and fixated on the cap, but I think a cap would work better for the National Hockey League, not for baseball.''

Daly spoke to reporters as part of a 30-minute presentation that explained the NHL's bargaining position. This talk was held in Buffalo, where just over a year ago the Sabres filed for bankruptcy protection.

Since being sold, the team has become a viable small market club but it is still unable to compete financially with big market teams.

``I've got a lot of confidence that this can be fixed by people coming together and trying to work it out,'' Sabres managing partner Larry Quinn said.

Daly said the NHL has considered the possibility that the 2004-05 season could be delayed or wiped out.

``The conclusion that we have reached is that it's important at this stage that we do the right thing and not just make a deal to make sure we don't miss time,'' he said. ``Far more harm can come to this league by just doing a deal to do a deal.''

[nccanes]

At least one member of the NHL Player's Association says they are prepared to sit out for "the rest of our lives" if NHL owners lock them out this fall.

"The bottom line is, if they want a hard (salary) cap, we'll sit out for the rest of our lives," Toronto Maple Leafs union rep Bryan McCabe tells the Toronto Star.

"If they're not going to budge off of that, there's really nowhere to go."

In an interview earlier this week with TSN's Dave Hodge, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said the owners have never proposed an hard salary cap, but they are looking for some sort of cost certainty.

McCabe says if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, then it is a duck.

"It's all in the semantics," McCabe tells the Star. "They want to impose a system where we can't direct our marketplace. What's the point of having free agency if you can't go anywhere? Whatever way they put it, it's not a good deal for us."

McCabe, who will earn $3.85-million this season, added its about protecting the younger players who will come long after he is finished playing the game.

"I wouldn't be making the money I am now if it weren't for the guys in 1994," said McCabe said. "There are hundreds of kids coming up who are going to be National Hockey League players. In the end, they deserve a fair shot at a solid marketplace and a chance to earn a decent living."



A "decent living". God forbid McCabe or the "hundreds of kids" have to survive on 90% of what a player of his caliber makes - that measly 3.5 million.

God this crap makes me sick. :sick:

[nccanes]

At least one member of the NHL Player's Association says they are prepared to sit out for "the rest of our lives" if NHL owners lock them out this fall.

"The bottom line is, if they want a hard (salary) cap, we'll sit out for the rest of our lives," Toronto Maple Leafs union rep Bryan McCabe tells the Toronto Star.

"If they're not going to budge off of that, there's really nowhere to go."

In an interview earlier this week with TSN's Dave Hodge, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said the owners have never proposed an hard salary cap, but they are looking for some sort of cost certainty.

McCabe says if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, then it is a duck.

"It's all in the semantics," McCabe tells the Star. "They want to impose a system where we can't direct our marketplace. What's the point of having free agency if you can't go anywhere? Whatever way they put it, it's not a good deal for us."

McCabe, who will earn $3.85-million this season, added its about protecting the younger players who will come long after he is finished playing the game.

"I wouldn't be making the money I am now if it weren't for the guys in 1994," said McCabe said. "There are hundreds of kids coming up who are going to be National Hockey League players. In the end, they deserve a fair shot at a solid marketplace and a chance to earn a decent living."



A "decent living". God forbid McCabe or the "hundreds of kids" have to survive on 90% of what a player of his caliber makes - that measly 3.5 million.

God this crap makes me sick. :sick:

[crazy4canes]

Awww...poor Bryan McCabe, millionaire. The poor kids who come up after him might only get to make 3.5 mil a year...whatever will they do? :cry:

[crazy4canes]

Awww...poor Bryan McCabe, millionaire. The poor kids who come up after him might only get to make 3.5 mil a year...whatever will they do? :cry:

[nccanes]

Really Crazy, what are we thinking? I mean they could buy a half dozen more Escalades with that money.

[nccanes]

Really Crazy, what are we thinking? I mean they could buy a half dozen more Escalades with that money.

[crazy4canes]

Really Crazy, what are we thinking? I mean they could buy a half dozen more Escalades with that money.

Indeed. As we know, Escalades certainly have their place in the hockey world. You can never have too many. :beatup:

[crazy4canes]

Really Crazy, what are we thinking? I mean they could buy a half dozen more Escalades with that money.

Indeed. As we know, Escalades certainly have their place in the hockey world. You can never have too many. :beatup:

[Jeff O Rocks]

Greed pisses me off.. and I want an Escalade.... one of the stretch kind. ;)

[Jeff O Rocks]

Greed pisses me off.. and I want an Escalade.... one of the stretch kind. ;)

[jhardman]

He plays for the Leafs, so what do you expect. Gotta keep up the whining to get respect from his fellow teammates.

Do you think Boughner would say something that stupid in our market? :)

[jhardman]

He plays for the Leafs, so what do you expect. Gotta keep up the whining to get respect from his fellow teammates.

Do you think Boughner would say something that stupid in our market? :)

[Lady J]

Really Crazy, what are we thinking? I mean they could buy a half dozen more Escalades with that money.

Indeed. As we know, Escalades certainly have their place in the hockey world. You can never have too many. :beatup:

:mad: There's a 1980 Plymouth Champ with a dubious gas tank I'd LOVE to afflict them with right about now. :mad:

[Lady J]

Really Crazy, what are we thinking? I mean they could buy a half dozen more Escalades with that money.

Indeed. As we know, Escalades certainly have their place in the hockey world. You can never have too many. :beatup:

:mad: There's a 1980 Plymouth Champ with a dubious gas tank I'd LOVE to afflict them with right about now. :mad:

[talkingcanes]

think he was feeling some heat :evil:

Jan. 31, 2004. 12:25 AM

McCabe clarifies his point

KEN CAMPBELL
SPORTS REPORTER

ATLANTA—Maple Leaf defenceman Bryan McCabe wants angry fans to know he never meant to come across as a selfish, pampered athlete when he spoke his mind about the state of negotiations with the NHL.

McCabe was responding to yesterday's story in the Star when he was quoted as saying the players are willing to "sit out for the rest of our lives" if the NHL insists on a hard salary cap.

"By no means do I think I'm underpaid," said McCabe, who will earn $3.85 million (U.S.) this season. "But we're going to stand up for what we believe is right. By no means do we want a lockout; it's the last thing we want. It's going to kill us. It's going to kill our fans and the bottom line is they make us what we are. Without them, we're nothing.

"By no means are we underpaid, we just don't want to take 10 steps back the way we were in the '80s and we all feel a hard cap will do that."

The NHL says it wants the players to receive a predetermined percentage of gross revenues.

The NHL Players' Association claims the league is demanding a hard salary cap of $31 million.

McCabe, the Leafs' union representative, has been criticized for his comments.

[talkingcanes]

think he was feeling some heat :evil:

Jan. 31, 2004. 12:25 AM

McCabe clarifies his point

KEN CAMPBELL
SPORTS REPORTER

ATLANTA—Maple Leaf defenceman Bryan McCabe wants angry fans to know he never meant to come across as a selfish, pampered athlete when he spoke his mind about the state of negotiations with the NHL.

McCabe was responding to yesterday's story in the Star when he was quoted as saying the players are willing to "sit out for the rest of our lives" if the NHL insists on a hard salary cap.

"By no means do I think I'm underpaid," said McCabe, who will earn $3.85 million (U.S.) this season. "But we're going to stand up for what we believe is right. By no means do we want a lockout; it's the last thing we want. It's going to kill us. It's going to kill our fans and the bottom line is they make us what we are. Without them, we're nothing.

"By no means are we underpaid, we just don't want to take 10 steps back the way we were in the '80s and we all feel a hard cap will do that."

The NHL says it wants the players to receive a predetermined percentage of gross revenues.

The NHL Players' Association claims the league is demanding a hard salary cap of $31 million.

McCabe, the Leafs' union representative, has been criticized for his comments.

[nccanes]

Back pedal much? :laugh:

But still:

"By no means are we underpaid, we just don't want to take 10 steps back the way we were in the '80s and we all feel a hard cap will do that."


I can't remember the number but there is some outrageous increase in the avg pay just over the last 10 years. To suggest the owners want to go back to the 80s....please.

[nccanes]

Back pedal much? :laugh:

But still:

"By no means are we underpaid, we just don't want to take 10 steps back the way we were in the '80s and we all feel a hard cap will do that."


I can't remember the number but there is some outrageous increase in the avg pay just over the last 10 years. To suggest the owners want to go back to the 80s....please.

[nccanes]

TSN.ca Staff
2/3/2004

Mike Modano says he would consider playing overseas next season if the owners lockout the players this fall.

"I've thought about playing in Italy," Modano tells the Star-Telegram. "It's something I've thought about for a while".

When the collective bargaining agreement between the league and its players expires on September 15, most NHL contracts will no longer be valid, which would allow players to play in other leagues.

Several players have already indicated they plan to stay in shape by playing overseas, likely in Finland, Sweden and Russia. Other players, such as Brett Hull, have indicated an interest in playing for the revived World Hockey Association.

[nccanes]

TSN.ca Staff
2/3/2004

Mike Modano says he would consider playing overseas next season if the owners lockout the players this fall.

"I've thought about playing in Italy," Modano tells the Star-Telegram. "It's something I've thought about for a while".

When the collective bargaining agreement between the league and its players expires on September 15, most NHL contracts will no longer be valid, which would allow players to play in other leagues.

Several players have already indicated they plan to stay in shape by playing overseas, likely in Finland, Sweden and Russia. Other players, such as Brett Hull, have indicated an interest in playing for the revived World Hockey Association.

[Jeff O Rocks]

Several players have already indicated they plan to stay in shape by playing overseas, likely in Finland, Sweden and Russia. Other players, such as Brett Hull, have indicated an interest in playing for the revived World Hockey Association.

They all better be open to the idea because if they don't settle this thing, they won't have a choice.. the NHL will be down the tubes.. :roll:

[Jeff O Rocks]

Several players have already indicated they plan to stay in shape by playing overseas, likely in Finland, Sweden and Russia. Other players, such as Brett Hull, have indicated an interest in playing for the revived World Hockey Association.

They all better be open to the idea because if they don't settle this thing, they won't have a choice.. the NHL will be down the tubes.. :roll:

[AbNormal27]

Hartford HERE WE COME!!!!!!!! pipedream, I know.

Aaryn

[AbNormal27]

Hartford HERE WE COME!!!!!!!! pipedream, I know.

Aaryn

[VandyCane]

More CBA posturing (I hope) from the players. Here's this lovely quote from Roenick:
"I think it (a shutdown) is scarier for the sport and for the owners than it is for the players," Roenick said. "The players can play in Europe, they can play in different leagues. The owners? They can lose their franchises. They have to deal with deal with the buildings that sit empty.

"Is Buffalo going to stick around? Is Carolina going to stick around? Is Ottawa going to stick around, Calgary, Edmonton? These teams are not going to be able to withstand one or two years (with no games)."


That quote really annoys me. Not because of the Carolina comments (that part may sadly be true) but because he doesn't give a rats ass about the fans. :sick:

Edited to add: just noted a separate thread for this article......

[tommy]

I just honestly cannot fathom how these millionaires see that a salary cap is so bad. Most (if not ALL) probably have enough to live far more luxurious lives than most people on the planet, and they're whining about it. I don't care how many players claim that they aren't greedy, or that the owners make the choice to pay them. What ever happened to a love of the game? Do they honestly think that the WHA2 or European leagues have anywhere CLOSE to the skill, popularity, history, fans, money, or excitement of the NHL? If they want to keep on making the big bucks, do they really think Europe is the place to go? Get a hold of yourselves, NHLers! If you wait an entire year, NOBODY IS GOING TO CARE! There are just going to be 30 arenas that won't have to worry about as many scheduling conflicts.

[nccanes]

Does JR not realize that if some franchises fold that means PLAYERS ARE ALSO OUT OF JOBS? Let's say 3 or 4 franchises fold. Yeah, those poor millionaire owners lose their franchises and 75-100 players (1/7 of the league) go with them. That's stupid talk. That also means that x number of minor leaguers are out of jobs because they have no team either. Yeah, they are really looking out for the future players.

God this crap pisses me off. :mad:

Tommy - I don't think the NHLers think they'll make NHL salaries elsewhere, but I do think that they'll take a pay cut, stay in shape, and then return to the riches when it's all over. I think they are sadly mistaken.

Has Lemieux or Gretzky been quoted recently. Hello megastars and owners - please don't tell me they'll abstain from the process instead of leading the charge to get it resolved.

The league's numbers indicate that 76 per cent of total revenues last season went to player costs, leaving only 24 per cent to pay for coaches, travel, building costs, marketing and advertising - therefore not enough to make any money.

The NHL's figures from the other three pro leagues in North America show that the NFL spent 64 per cent of its total revenues on players costs, Major League Baseball 63 per cent and the NBA 58 per cent.

If this is true (yeah, I know the players probably think it's crap), then how on earth can the players pretend their salaries are not a problem.

[nccanes]

Whenever I read this crap, it makes me want (as Bucci has suggested) to bring signs to the arena urging the players/orgs to work it out. I never have of course, but I swear toward the end of the season, I think fans need to do SOMETHING.

Bucci's suggestion:


"You walk, I walk."

[raleighcanesfan]

TSN.ca Staff
2/3/2004

Mike Modano says he would consider playing overseas next season if the owners lockout the players this fall.

To Mike and any others, I say Ciao!!

I'm more than ready to watch AHL hockey or ECHL hockey where they pour their souls into it every game. It would be great if ESPN or Fox Sports would begin picking up some of these games. Fine with me.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

The league's numbers indicate that 76 per cent of total revenues last season went to player costs, leaving only 24 per cent to pay for coaches, travel, building costs, marketing and advertising - therefore not enough to make any money.

The NHL's figures from the other three pro leagues in North America show that the NFL spent 64 per cent of its total revenues on players costs, Major League Baseball 63 per cent and the NBA 58 per cent.

If this is true (yeah, I know the players probably think it's crap), then how on earth can the players pretend their salaries are not a problem.

Even I think it's crap. I can certainly believe it's the highest by a decent chunk....I just don't believe this number.

Ray Ferraro has a much more calm take on all this that he expressed on NHL2Nite last night. He said that many people are talking about wanting them to sit down and get to work now on this thing but that what people don't realize is, even without formal meetings, there will be a lot of ground work being laid along the way and that nothing is going to be decided until the 11th hour (and I agree with that last part most definitely) no matter when they begin to meet.

The hard part for the fans is a) believing that to be the case and b) putting up with all the crap the players and owners are spouting in the meantime. And it is all just crap designed to advance their position. The owners want to sound like poor starving orphans (don't forget how obscenely rich these guys are!!) and the players all want to sound like they are hard-core and are NOT negotiating. It's only going to get more annoying before it's all over. :roll:

[nccanes]

Ray Ferraro has a much more calm take on all this that he expressed on NHL2Nite last night. He said that many people are talking about wanting them to sit down and get to work now on this thing but that what people don't realize is, even without formal meetings, there will be a lot of ground work being laid along the way and that nothing is going to be decided until the 11th hour (and I agree with that last part most definitely) no matter when they begin to meet.


It's nice to hear this opinion and I hope he's right, but when JR and Bettman and Modano and others are spouting off, I don't get much comfort from Ray Ferraro.

And suppose Ferraro is correct and the players know it - then we are to accept that they are not only posturing, but purposely manipulating the fans knowing it will be worked out? Yeah, they probably are. But every time they say something insulting or down right inaccurate I'm sure this thread will just grow). I was glad to see the backlash from McCabe's remarks - they deserve it. If they can't come up with a remark that will actually get the public to by sympathetic to their stance - then the probably shouldn't say anything. Or better yet, if they can't make a public statement to get the public to be sympathetic - then perhaps they need to revist their stance altogether. :evil:

It annoys me to no end that we hear things come out of the players that should be instrumental in resolving this (the ones dubbed the team reps to the union, etc.) saying things w/o acknowledging the impact on the fans. The millionaire owners, the millionaire players and us dumb slobs that just pay for the tickets get overlooked.

[Jeff O Rocks]

Tommy - I don't think the NHLers think they'll make NHL salaries elsewhere, but I do think that they'll take a pay cut, stay in shape, and then return to the riches when it's all over. I think they are sadly mistaken.



I agree Eileen.. if they think they can make half of what they are paid here and live the way they live, I think they are sadly mistaken. I have heard plenty of horror stories from local (ACC) basketball players that went overseas to play because they couldn't make the NBA, and I know hockey is more accepted world-wide, but I think it is all pretty much the same. Housing and pay will be a rude awakening for them.. :roll: And so far as returing to their riches, some teams can't fill arenas now, who will be waiting for them 1 or 2 years down the road???

[nccanes]

Stumbled on this. It's long so I'll just put the link and some excerpts:

http://www.sportsbusinessnews.com/index.asp?story_id=32448

The coolest game on Earth gets an even cooler reception on TV.
So cool that the 2003 NCAA women's softball championship attracted more viewers than Game 2 of the 2003 Stanley Cup Finals.

Not good for the ego of the sport that claims to be one of the four majors.

Although regarded and marketed as one of the best in-game experiences in pro sports, hockey and the NHL may be the worst of all pro sports in the format that pays the most: television.

"It's a constant battle we talk about every single year," said ABC/ESPN NHL play-by-play man Steve Levy. "I say this from the bottom of my heart: It's the best sport in person to watch. But it doesn't translate [to TV] the same way. We are trying everything, racking our brains, and we have to believe we can lick this thing one day."

....

"Ten years ago, Sports Illustrated ran on its cover, 'Why the NHL is Hot and Why the NBA is Not,' " said NHL play-by-play man Gord Miller, who calls games for TSN in Canada. "Because at the time, Chicago, the [New York] Rangers and the Kings were all good. Now, the Rangers are terrible, Chicago has been bad for so long and the Kings haven't been good since [Wayne] Gretzky left. The biggest reason ratings are so bad in the U.S. is the major market teams are awful.

....

"Why people believe it doesn't televise well is because they don't understand the flow of the game," Buccigross said. "That changes over time."

To expedite the process, the NHL continues to pin its hopes on one piece of technology: High Definition Television. It has for nearly four years.

From NHL commissioner Gary Bettman: "HDTV may have the most positive impact on hockey than any other sport."



The link also has a table (though it's formatting if off for me) on the TV contract for the 4 major sports and the contract lengths.

[Jeff O Rocks]

Women's Softball??? Good grief! :eek2:

[Shell]

NHL to present new financial report
TSN.ca Staff
2/11/2004

The war of words beteween the NHL and the NHL Players' Association is about to be ratcheted up a notch.

The NHL is expected tomorrow to have a news conference to present a new financial report on the state of the business, as it relates to the upcoming negotiations with the NHLPA for a new collective bargaining agreement.

The league reportedly commissioned Arthur Levitt, the former chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, to prepare a detailed financial breakdown of the NHL. Sources say the report presents a dire picture of a league in financial difficulties.

Whether the NHLPA puts any more credence in this report than the league's previous financial reports is doubtful, but Levitt's report is bound to cause a stir and fuel further public debate on the tempestuous labour situation in the NHL.

A major stumbling block in the current stalled collective bargaining talks has been the NHL Players' Association's mistrust of the league's financial numbers, which derive from the NHL's central accounting system called Unified Report of Operations.

It's expected Levitt will fully endorse the UROs for all 30 teams.

"We believe our bookkeeping is transparent, we believe in our numbers, we believe the URO is both comprehensive and accurate in all respects, the union has been getting the UROs since 1999, and we believe that even they believe that the numbers are accurate," league commissioner Gary Bettman said last weekend.

"There's no reason for them not to trust the UROs."

It's believed 25 of the league's 30 teams say they are losing money, so Levitt's announcement Thursday won't be a surprise to them.

"All I can tell you is that our team has had some (financial) difficulties in St. Louis that we're uncomfortable with," Blues GM Larry Pleau said Wednesday after the league meetings wrapped up outside Las Vegas. "We're hoping to make it right one day in St. Louis, that we can put our revenues and our expenses together where it makes sense for us to keep a competitive team."

The next negotiating session has yet to be scheduled with the collective bargaining agreement set to expire in September.

The league desperately wants a drastically different-looking system from the one that has existed over the last 10 years. The current collective bargaining agreement, twice extended, has seen the average NHL salary grow from $572,000 US in 1993-94 to $1.79 million last season _ a 212 per cent increase.

The NHL wants a system in place that guarantees cost certainty, that player costs won't overrun profits.

The league's numbers indicate that 76 per cent of total revenues last season went to player costs, leaving only 24 per cent to pay for coaches, travel, building costs, marketing and advertising _ therefore not enough to make any money in their eyes.

The NHL's figures from the other three pro leagues in North America show that the NFL spent 64 per cent of its total revenues on player costs, compared to 63 per cent for Major League Baseball and 58 per cent for the NBA.

The union sees the league's `cost certainty' as some form of hard salary cap, which is a complete non-starter for its side. The NHLPA would probably settle for some form of baseball's luxury-tax system, which doesn't limit payrolls but punishes the big spenders.

But the NHL doesn't think that's good enough to ensure what it is looking for - a 60-40 split of revenues and expenditures.

[talkingcanes]

Contraction could be the answer for NHL
Kara Yorio / The Sporting News

Contraction is the only thing the NHL and NHLPA agree on. Neither side wants it. But we do.

Few hockey people will discuss it on the record. Kings general manager Dave Taylor sums up the biggest argument against the "c-word".

"That would cost some jobs," Taylor says. "I'm not real sure how that would affect scoring. (But) you'd have better defense and better goaltending on all the clubs."

Sure, but the best defensemen and goaltenders would be up against the best of the offense. If that doesn't translate into scoring, at least the battles would be great.

The game is better when the field is limited. Look at the Olympics and the World Cup. Face it: The league overexpanded. The on-ice product is diluted, and contraction is the solution.

The three best consequences of contraction:

Fewer games and less traveling would mean less fatigue for players, fewer injuries and a higher caliber of play.

A need for fewer officials, which would eliminate the inconsistent and less qualified.

The fringe players would be cut loose.

Contraction would not end the trap. But it would mean more talented players per team to capitalize on offensive opportunities.

The NHL sure needs it. In 1992-93, the last season the league had 24 teams, the top 10 scorers all had at least 123 points. Since then, only three players — Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux and Jaromir Jagr (twice) — have scored more than 122 points. And scoring is down again this season.

Sure, we're ignoring the business and personal side of contraction, but the on-ice product would improve, and that's the whole point.

So who gets cut? The Sporting News' scoring system determines that. Our recommendation: Fold the six teams with the lowest scores and let the dispersal draft begin.

How they were ranked
When deciding who should be contracted, we took several factors into account. Each team was ranked on a scale of 1-10 in five categories by a panel of Sporting News experts. Send your comments about our list to yourturn@sportingnews.com.

The categories:

1. Playoff success over the last 10 years (taking into account years in the playoffs, number of rounds won, Stanley Cup finals berths, Cups won).

2. Regular-season success over the last 10 years (taking into account wins, years with a winning record, Presidents' trophies won).

3. Stability in the last 10 years (taking into account management and coaching changes, threats to move, roster turnover, commitment to winning, facility).

4. Fan passion in the last 10 years (taking into account marketing, merchandise sales, media coverage, market saturation).

5. Tradition and history of the franchise (taking into account success before the last decade, Hall of Fame players, franchise status before relocation, plus external factors such as hunger for hockey in the city).

CONTRACTON POWER POLL
1. Red Wings. This Original Six team has won three Stanley Cups in the last decade, has won in the regular season, has an owner committed to winning and has intense fans. The building might be old, but it is never empty. Detroit is Hockeytown.

2. Avalanche. This successful team has had a full building since moving to Denver. Management is committed to winning. The team's score suffers a bit because this is a relocated franchise.

3. Maple Leafs. This Original Six team is in a city that lives and breathes hockey, has legendary heroes and has plenty of Cups. Their score is brought down a notch by a lack of recent playoff success and infamous management conflicts.

4. Flyers. One thing's for sure: The Flyers aren't going anywhere. Their fans are passionate, they have loads of tradition and they always are successful in the regular season. Now about the playoffs . . .


5. Stars. The Stars bring the North Stars' history and success, in addition to two berths in Cup finals in the last decade. Even if Big D always hasn't been a hockey town, its fans are paying attention. Ownership goes after the top players, though Tom Hicks wants to sell.


6. Canadiens. What can be said? If they would have had more success and hadn't changed ownership in the last 10 years, the Habs could have scored a perfect 50.


7. Blues. This stable organization has good fans and loads of regular-season success, plus the longest current streak in pro sports for making the postseason. Now if only the Blues could win in the playoffs.

8. Devils. The Devils win — three Stanley Cups in 10 years — but don't draw fans or media interest. Their building is old, and the team has threatened to move at least twice in the last decade. Good management counts for a lot here, however.

9. Oilers. Wayne Gretzky's legacy keeps the team going. The exchange on the Canadian dollar and the uncertainty of small-market teams have hurt stability, but a passionate following, front-page coverage and an incredible past merit a top 10 spot.

10. Canucks. This team didn't draw when it wasn't as good, but the media coverage of hockey in Canada never wanes. The team needs playoff success but has become a regular-season power because of the competence of its GM and coach.

11. Bruins. Bruins fans don't fill the Fleet Center as often as they used to, but there's never an empty seat for the Beanpot. A great history and tradition are taken down by a recent lack of success, particularly in the playoffs.

12. Rangers. An Original Six team reduced to a joke, the Rangers most often are cited as the reason salaries have escalated. But good fans, serious coverage in the biggest media market and a long history carry it through.

13. Senators. Bankrupt last season but seemingly financially stable now, the Senators lose a little for a lack of playoff success and for having a GM carousel. But this team is built well.

14. Sabres. Another team pulled out of bankruptcy, the Sabres get medicore media attention and don't get a high rating for fan passion. Other than the last two full seasons, however, the team has been good. The lack of stability in ownership pushes their score down.

15. Kings. They had Gretzky, don't forget. The Staples Center often is full, and there is a significant following. If only the team had more seasons like 1992-93. Media interest is lukewarm.

16. Wild. This is the "State of Hockey," which has welcomed back the NHL with open arms. The Wild just need a little more talent. Coaching and management are top notch and stable.

17. Sharks. The Sharks are limited in several key categories, but they are a quality team and have better fan interest than they are given credit for. The Shark Tank is one of the loudest buildings in the league.

18. Blackhawks. This Original Six team has dropped to unthinkable lows because of penny-pinching ownership. But there is a foundation of good players, and fans wantto see a winner. The past keeps this team in our future.

19. Flames. Despite small-market financial troubles and a revolving door for coaches, the Flames stick around thanks to fan and media interest and a Cup in their history.

20. Islanders. The dynasty of the early 1980s keeps this team from falling too far. The building is bad and ownership turnover has been embarrassing, but things are looking up.

21. Capitals. The Caps survive with regular-season success, one trip to the finals and solid ownership, even though the plan has failed and fans are losing interest.

22. Coyotes. A new building and Gretzky's involvement, plus the Winnipeg Jets' history, helps this team survive in the desert.

23. Lightning. Significant recent improvement and surprisingly good fan interest keep this team afloat. Management has shown a commitment to winning recently.

24. Thrashers. The Thrashers make the cut because of exciting talent, stable management, a good coach and an upward movement. But hockey is dangerously close to failing again in Atlanta.


CONTRACTED

25. Penguins. Even Mario Lemieux can't save the Penguins, who are hurt by the lack of a new arena, little fan interest and the selling of their best players the last few years. Even the past isn't so sterling, if those early 1990s are eliminated.

26. Hurricanes. The trip to the finals was a mirage. There are good people in this organization, and they would find jobs elsewhere. Fan interest isn't serious enough to survive the low points, however.

27. Mighty Ducks. One trip to the finals doesn't give a team enough tradition to keep it when nothing else is there. Paul Kariya is gone, and so are the Ducks.

28. Blue Jackets. No history, no tradition and no success. Which is all too bad, considering the team has good fans, a couple of potential stars, solid owners and a new building.

29. Panthers. One trip to the finals is worth something, but the level of the product has fallen, and the fans don't care. The arena is pretty new but closer to the swamp than Miami.

30. Predators. They could make the playoffs this year, but that isn't enough. Again, no history, no tradition, no success and evaporating fan and media interest.

Kara Yorio is a staff writer for Sporting News. Email her at kyorio@sportingnews.com. Managing editor Paul Grant contributed to this report.

[nccanes]

"That would cost some jobs," Taylor says. "I'm not real sure how that would affect scoring. (But) you'd have better defense and better goaltending on all the clubs."

Sure, but the best defensemen and goaltenders would be up against the best of the offense. If that doesn't translate into scoring, at least the battles would be great.



hahahaha. So nothing would really change, but "trust her" the games would be more exciting. :crazy:

Let's ditch the whacky ideas that the GMs come up with and just do the easy thing - lets shut down shop in 5 cities and watch scoring rise. If we're wrong, it's nothing that the annual GMs meeting can't fix......or can it.



The game is better when the field is limited. Look at the Olympics and the World Cup. Face it: The league overexpanded. The on-ice product is diluted, and contraction is the solution.


This is rich. You're going to compare Olympic competition to the best professional league in the world. So, because there are some countries that aren't hockey hotbeds and/or can't support a program like the US, Canada, Russia can or have the population of, say, Cary, etc. it's an accurate comparison to the NHL?

[Stormbringer]

CONTRACTED

25. Penguins. Even Mario Lemieux can't save the Penguins, who are hurt by the lack of a new arena, little fan interest and the selling of their best players the last few years. Even the past isn't so sterling, if those early 1990s are eliminated.

26. Hurricanes. The trip to the finals was a mirage. There are good people in this organization, and they would find jobs elsewhere. Fan interest isn't serious enough to survive the low points, however.

27. Mighty Ducks. One trip to the finals doesn't give a team enough tradition to keep it when nothing else is there. Paul Kariya is gone, and so are the Ducks.

28. Blue Jackets. No history, no tradition and no success. Which is all too bad, considering the team has good fans, a couple of potential stars, solid owners and a new building.

29. Panthers. One trip to the finals is worth something, but the level of the product has fallen, and the fans don't care. The arena is pretty new but closer to the swamp than Miami.

30. Predators. They could make the playoffs this year, but that isn't enough. Again, no history, no tradition, no success and evaporating fan and media interest.

Okaaaay...lemme get this straight: Teams that have always been underdogs and/or are recent expansions don't deserve to exist. That is what the above list and article scream to me. If a team is a recent expansion (IE Nashville and Columbus), they've barely had time to build up history and "tradition". :roll: As for Anaheim and Florida, they've always traditionally been underdogs AND two teams you never really have heard about being under the fire of going defunct until this article. I thought Buffalo, Calgary. Edmonton, and Ottawa had more of such a threat than Anaheim and Florida.

As for our beloved Canes...only time and what will happen with the CBA crap will tell. But, despite the attendance, (Which, really has not been horrible until this season...remember last season, we had at least five more sellouts than New Jersey.) the fan support is most certainly still there. I see just as much, if not more Canes stuff around the Triangle than I did last season...

The only team I agree with on that list is the Pens. And everyone knows that unless a miracle happens, they or their being in Pittsburgh are/is toast anyway.

[jhardman]

The long lockout will contract franchises. This is the facet of a labor strike seldom discussed, but it is very relevant this time for the NHL. Owners of pro sports franchises are rich, competitive people, and one way to succeed is to actually have the value of their franchise increase. The best investment for a franchise is to have its competition shrink when there is no revenue sharing.

Those owners feeling the pinch can gracefully fold and exit stage right and write off the loss. they'll stick with their more powerful brethren even if they lose their franchise, because they'll be crucified by them for siding with the players. The strong owners can ride this thing out, lose lots of money, etc. Five years after it is settled and the fans return (their mindset), their franchise increases more rapidly in value and there is less competition.

This is the scenario I most fear. It's also the one I think will happen. So I think toward Plan B and a trip to best Buy for my plasma bigscreen TV instead of being a STH in 2004-2005. Depending how long it last will depend on how many franchises fail or relocate.

Just my editorial.

[talkingcanes]

So, when there is a work stoppage and they all contribute to the demise of hockey, is this guy going to step up and take responsibility for that or make excuses why none of it is his fault :mad:

NHLPA's Goodenow issues response

(NHLPA)
2/12/2004

TORONTO - Bob Goodenow, NHLPA Executive Director, had the following comments in response to the League commissioned report by Arthur Levitt:

"We understand the Levitt report took 12 months and thousands of hours to complete. Because we received the report from the League late this morning, it will take more than a couple of hours of review to fully comment. Selected media outlets received this report days before us, which speaks volumes about its intended audience. Without a detailed review of all the underlying documents one can only make preliminary comments on the report:

1. The owners and their commissioner Gary Bettman have obviously found it necessary to retain a new spokesman/consultant to provide general conclusions about League finances while still not disclosing any individual team information or providing an opportunity to examine the actual records upon which the conclusions are allegedly based.

2. We understand that 12 months ago, Levitt was retained by the League's commissioner through two New York City based law firms. The League did not advise the NHLPA of this initiative and there has been no discussion of it by the parties, even though we had many discussions of issues flowing from the URO process during the substantive economic discussions and collective bargaining sessions we have had over the last 12 months. Against this background, it is clear the Levitt report is simply another League public relations initiative. To suggest the report is in any way independent is misleading.

3. We have consistently stated that one critical issue of disagreement between the NHLPA and the League on finances is how to define the complete business of owning an NHL franchise, and how to address the significant inconsistencies contained in the NHL's voluntary and unaudited URO reporting process. At the outset it is clear the Levitt report, commissioned by the League, is fundamentally flawed when the author "elects" to define hockey revenues on the same basis as used in the NBA and NFL for defining revenues in their salary cap systems.

4. We were given access to the UROs for 30 clubs, but were only able to conduct a thorough review of four NHL clubs. On those four clubs alone we found just over $52 million in hockey related revenues and benefits not reported in the League's voluntary and unaudited URO process. If we are given similar access to all of the other individual teams' financial information, presumably used in the Levitt report, we will be in a position to provide further comment.

We continue to believe that a market system, not a team of hired-gun accountants, provides the best measure of the value of the hockey business. In a market system, the owner decides how much to pay the players. The owner knows the value of his business better than any paid consultant or league employee and the owner uses this knowledge when he sets player salaries. In our view, there is no better indicator of the true value of the players and the business."

[StormShaman]

For those who don't wish to read through that whole "response", allow me to summarize:

"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH, THE NUMBERS DON'T AGREE WITH US!"

[jhardman]

For those who don't wish to read through that whole "response", allow me to summarize:

"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH, THE NUMBERS DON'T AGREE WITH US!"

You have more patience than I. I stopped at "WAAAAAAAAAAAAH"

[Guyute]

I agree Cam. that's why I haven't bothered to make a comment on it.

Goodenow is a tool, and likely the speedbump in getting a deal done.

[StormShaman]

For those who don't wish to read through that whole "response", allow me to summarize:

"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH, THE NUMBERS DON'T AGREE WITH US!"

You have more patience than I. I stopped at "WAAAAAAAAAAAAH"

That made me LOL. :)

[nccanes]

Did anyone else here Chuck K talking about the labor situation on Thursday pre-game on 850?

He said if the players want a free market, then they need to give up arbitration. If they want to point out that places like Detroit can pay players more, then they have to accept that places like Raleigh and Nashville pay less and not have the NHLPA step in and demand that similar players in Detroit and Raleigh get paid the same.

I liked that attitude (though I know he knows that will never happen). The players want no limit on what they can be paid, but damn sure won't let the "market" determine how little they get paid as well.

[Jeff O Rocks]

Detroit and the Rangers have ruined hockey with their ridiculous payrolls.. :mad:

[Mookie]

I think that the NHL can learn something from Baseball. MLB had a chance to do something about the ridiculous difference in large and small market teams a couple years ago. Instead of a salary cap, they came up with a joke of an idea called the luxury tax. George Steinbrenner cried that fans will never see the Yankees be the same again. He was right. They just stole the best player in the game from Texas for next to nothing and have a payroll approaching $200 million. And George doesn't care how much he is "taxed". It's a complete joke. If the NHL owners don't put a cap in place, hockey is doomed to go down the same road, only problem is Hockey can't survive it. :sad:

[MoBigRed]

Detroit and the Rangers have ruined hockey with their ridiculous payrolls.. :mad:


I hate to mention how much the Hurricanes had to do with the whole mess, too, because of the ridiculous offer they gave Fedorov.

[talkingcanes]

5:39 PM EST, 02/18/2004
NHL launches CBA Web site for fans


NEW YORK - The National Hockey League today launched a new website, NHLCBANews.com, which provides fans with the latest news and information about League economics and collective bargaining.

The launch of the CBA site follows the Thursday, Feb. 12th announcement from former Securities and Exchange Commission chair Arthur Levitt, regarding the results of his independent study of the finances of the NHL. In his report, Levitt concluded that the NHL sustained operating losses of $273 million during the 2002-03 season on revenues of $1.996 billion; that 75% of the League's gross revenues are spent on player salaries and other player costs; and that the NHL's player costs as a percentage of its revenues far exceeded those in other major league professional sports. The complete report and full press conference transcript are available on NHLCBANews.com.

Other information available on the site to fans, includes:

CBA Info

Learn more about collective bargaining with these informative documents:

Collective Bargaining Basics
Glossary of Terms

CBA by the Numbers

League-Wide Financial Results from 2002-03
CBA Historical Financial Results
Average Cost of Player Performance
Player Productivity in Relation to Salary Over Time

Understanding the CBA

Everything you need to know about the NHL's Collective Bargaining Agreement with the NHL Players' Association, including history, economic reports and frequently asked questions.

Public Reaction

Fan survey results
What people are saying

[talkingcanes]

another precinct heard from :roll:

NBA boss has stern warning for NHLPA

TSN.ca Staff
2/20/2004

NBA commissioner David Stern says the NHL Players Association should not be quick to downplay the recent report done by former Securities and Exchange Commission chairman Arthur Levitt which claims the NHL is facing financial disaster.

"I can't imagine a person of more reliability on economic matters," Stern tells the Rocky Mountain News of the Levitt report.

"The union and the owners should have a very strong incentive to make that sport economically rational. They should sit down and (reach an agreement) because the alternative is going to be horrendous."

Levitt's report claimed NHL teams lost a combined $273-million US last season and said the league is on a "treadmill to obscurity" unless changes are made.

NHLPA boss Bob Goodenow called the report "misleading" and the methods used to reach its conclusions "fundamentally flawed".

Former NHL president John Ziegler has said the owner's desire to field winning teams has led to the overspending. Ziegler says teams should not be spending more than 60 percent of their revenues on player salaries. Currently, they are spending more than 70 percent.

[Lady J]

Not to sound thickheaded, but what does this all mean then? If the players' hold -out causes the NHL franchise to implode, then does that mean we won't see anymore hockey PERIOD? Or does that mean only the higher salaried teams will survive?

[AbNormal27]

Not to sound thickheaded, but what does this all mean then? If the players' hold -out causes the NHL franchise to implode, then does that mean we won't see anymore hockey PERIOD? Or does that mean only the higher salaried teams will survive?

Much like the mystery of what exactly that creature is on your avatar, this question may never be answered. ;)

Aaryn

[nccanes]

In addition to the CBA issues, the NHL has no TV contract after this season, correct?

From Luke's column today:

Word out of Connecticut is that the staff of ESPN's NHL2Night was told to look for work after the season. ...

[tommy]

In addition to the CBA issues, the NHL has no TV contract after this season, correct?

From Luke's column today:

Word out of Connecticut is that the staff of ESPN's NHL2Night was told to look for work after the season. ...

Oh s***. That sucks!!! These millionaires need to work something out! Bucci's gotta STAY!

Seriously though... bring signs to games: "You walk, I walk."

[tommy]

John,

Is it true that NHL2Nite is out after this year?
Don't they realize that we're GOING to have hockey? I
can turn on ESPN 23.5 hours a day to see college
basketball! I want HOCKEY! We're the most dedicated
fans, IMO, and this is the treatment they give us?
Don't let them do it, Bucci! Tell them about the
passion of the players; why Cam Neely should be in the
Hall. Tell them one of Podes' stories. Show them
baby pictures of Ken the Otter. Let them know that
third level seats behind the goal in the RBC Center
are still only $12. Tell them something Bucci!

Whoever "them" is.

Your hockey brutha forever,

Bennett Campbell
Raleigh, NC
(Hockeytown South)

Bucci responds, simply,

it's true.
it's a sad day, bennett.

john

:cry: :sad:



P.S. http://espn.go.com/nhl/columns/buccigross_john/1401303.html (I'm not kidding when I say this is AMAZING... it's the one in my location. This is why Bucci rocks.)

[talkingcanes]

Players prepared for lengthy lockout

TSN.ca Staff
4/6/2004

The Pittsburgh Penguins cleaned out their lockers on Monday and for some it was with the knowledge that it could be a very long time before they return.

The uncertainty of collective bargaining agreement talks had a number of players expressing concern that any potential lockout this fall would be a long one.

"Financially, the union has told us to plan to be out the whole year," forward Ryan Malone tells the Pittsburgh Post Gazette.

"We have to be ready for there to be no hockey until after Christmas or maybe even for the whole season. That would be disappointing, but we're definitely set up to not have the season."

The Penguins NHLPA rep, Steve McKenna, is optimistic that a settlement can be reached but only if the owners drop their demand for a salary cap.

"We could probably sit down and hammer it out in one day," McKenna tells the newspaper. "What we need to say is, 'OK, a salary cap isn't going to work. Is there something else we can do to make the league better?' I think there is."

The league and the players association haven't met formally since last October.

[e2ipiand1]

If I were the guys from NHL2Nite, I'd see if we could swing a deal with NHL Center ICE to do an expanded version of the show (under a different name of course). Maybe something like Hockey Night In Canada.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

The regular season is over.....the CBA rhetoric is about to kick in full-force. To remain sane, I suggest you ignore every word out of every player, owner, union rep, agent, etc, etc's mouth until further notice. It's gonna get ugly, ladies. Too bad they are probably going to taint the playoffs with this crap. :-/

[tommy]

The league and the players association haven't met formally since last October.

Hmm, that's funny - that was about the last time I took either of them seriously.

[HubbyHatesHockey]

I say we form the NHLFA - NHL Fan Association. However long the lockout lasts, the fans lockout the games once they return. Want to lock us out of hockey for 3 months? Fine. Don't expect to see the fans for 3 months once you get back.

[drwFischerFan2]

I say we form the NHLFA - NHL Fan Association. However long the lockout lasts, the fans lockout the games once they return. Want to lock us out of hockey for 3 months? Fine. Don't expect to see the fans for 3 months once you get back.

http://www.nhlfa.com

[Lady J]

I say we form the NHLFA - NHL Fan Association. However long the lockout lasts, the fans lockout the games once they return. Want to lock us out of hockey for 3 months? Fine. Don't expect to see the fans for 3 months once you get back.

Clever idea, chica. lol :evil:

[tommy]

I say we form the NHLFA - NHL Fan Association. However long the lockout lasts, the fans lockout the games once they return. Want to lock us out of hockey for 3 months? Fine. Don't expect to see the fans for 3 months once you get back.

http://www.nhlfa.com

The FA officially doesn't have a whole lot of members yet, but if they get advertising, there's no telling how much the fans could impact the game.

[Captain Slack]

Finally!!!

NHL, NHLPA plan to meet April 29

TSN.ca Staff

4/13/2004

The NHL and the players' association have reserved two days each at the end of April and May to discuss the collective bargaining agreement.

According to the Los Angeles Times, the NHL's chief legal counsel, Bill Daly, and NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin plan to hold a "pre-meeting" next week to establish an agenda for the talks, scheduled for April 29 and 30 and May 24 and 25.

The two sides have not spoken formally about the labour agreement since last October when they met face-to-face in Toronto.

The current collective bargaining agreement expires September 15. The owners have been pleading their case for "cost controls" in any new agreement while the union has said it will not agree to any kind of "salary cap" in order to control salaries.

"The decision we have to make going forward is whether we want a league of 30 teams," Nashville GM David Poile tells the Detroit Free Press. "If we do, there is going have to be a new economic system. We're not going to be existing under the present system."

The Predators, who qualified for the playoffs for the first time in franchise history this year, began the year with a $23-million payroll, the lowest in the NHL. They are currently facing the Detroit Red Wings, whose $78-million payroll is among the highest in the NHL.

Predators captain Greg Johnson has seen both sides of the track, having played for the free spending Red Wings in the past.

"I'm grateful to every owner that I've played for and every dollar that they've paid me," Johnson tells the newspaper. "I also support my union and appreciate the situation that they've put me in.

"Ultimately, I'm a fan and I just want the game to go on and be successful. I hope there is an economic system that both sides can be happy with."

[tommy]

Locked out NHL would skip '06 Games

ESPN.com news services
PRAGUE, Czech Republic -- The 2006 Winter Olympics will be played without NHL players if the league is shut down by January because of a labor dispute.

International Ice Hockey Federation president Rene Fasel said Sunday that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has told his group that if the league is not playing then its players will not be at the Turin Games.

"It's important for our national federations to know whether they are playing or not, especially for the U.S. and Canada," Fasel said at a news conference.

The NHL's participation at the Olympics must be included in the next collective bargaining agreement. The deal expires Sept. 15.

A possible lockout could substantially curtail or even cancel next season, although Bettman has said he believes a work stoppage can be avoided.

"We have always said that our first and most important priority is negotiating a new collective bargaining agreement with the NHLPA, and we will not rush into any decision on the Olympics until that has been accomplished," said Bill Daly, the NHL's chief legal officer.

Fasel said if the NHL plays a reduced season next year, similar to the lockout-shortened 1994-95 season, Bettman would not want the NHL to take a 16-day break in February 2006 for his players to go to Italy.

Sources have told The Sports Network of Canada that the NHL, in conjunction with the Players Association, is working toward a reduced 72-game schedule, down 10 games from 82.

An agreement has been finalized, particularly because the complex negotiations for a new CBA still loom. But, according to TSN, the league and the union appear to be on the same page: They agree it is in everyone's best interests to play fewer games.

According to TSN's sources, the NHL has a working model for a 72-game season that would eliminate all interlocking play between the Eastern and Western conference teams.

This was the clearest indication so far that the NHL will skip the Olympics after sending its players to the 1998 Nagano Games and the 2002 Salt Lake City Games.

"While the January date is not something I remember having discussed with the IIHF, it would seem sensible," Daly said. "We certainly respect the IIHF's need for some certainty."

If the NHL skips Turin, the Olympic tournament would resume its old ways, with European-based pros and young players from North America representing their countries.

Regardless of what happens with Turin, however, Fasel said he was convinced NHL players would be at the 2010 Winter Games in Vancouver, British Columbia.

"We'll be in Canada, and I cannot see the NHL not being there," Fasel said.

Fasel also said it was almost certain Canada would be selected to host the 2008 world hockey championships for the first time, celebrating the IIHF's 100-year anniversary.

The IIHF congress will vote on the host city in Prague on May 8. Canada is widely expected to win over the two other candidates, Germany and Sweden.

[nccanes]

I'm dense I suppose.

Doesn't the league have to schedule an Olympic break in the NHL schedule - which will be done sometime in July?

So, the IIHF is trying to give the NHL a deadline for working out the CBA, but if there is no new CBA, how can the NHL tell it's players they can't play in the Olympics.

I'm sure it's my stupidity or the fact that it's Monday morning, but can someone explain this so I can understand, lol?

[RangersCanesFan]

May not matter if the United States doesn't even qualify for the Olympics.

Let's worry about the Red, White and Blue before the NHL comes up with a schedule.

If the US isn't in the Top 8 after the World Championships, they have to try and qualify for the Olympics in February 2005. Is the NHL going to allow the American players a break to do that? Doubtful.

Fuc* the Olympics. NHL players shouldn't be there anyway. If the American amateur and low professional players are that bad, don't allow the NHLers to bail them out. Let's improve our programs first.

[nccanes]

JR is quoted a number of times in this article....

Tuesday, 05/18/04
NHL payrolls cut as lockout looms
By JOHN GLENNON
Staff Writer


The Predators aren't the only NHL organization that's tightening the belt in preparation for a potential work stoppage this fall.

A number of other franchises have laid off employees, while others have decided upon shortened workweeks this fall, assuming the NHL and NHL Players' Association have not signed a new collective bargaining agreement by then.

The current CBA expires in mid-September, with many predicting a lockout of players at that point.

''A lot more people than just the players are affected by something like this,'' said Jim Rutherford, the Carolina Hurricanes president and general manager.

''It affects owners, fans and of course, employees. It could be a tough offseason in that respect.''

Rutherford speaks from experience, as the Carolina organization trimmed 15% of its employees at the end of the regular season last month, despite the fact the Hurricanes will play host to the NHL draft June 26-27.

''Most of our moves to date have come on the arena side of things, and that's because the activity of the arena naturally slows down with no basketball and hockey in the summer,'' Rutherford said. ''Still, it's not something that anybody takes pride in. But with the uncertainty of a new agreement, we had to take steps within our company.''

The Predators yesterday trimmed 11 employees from the payroll, and had previously revealed that the contract of scouts Paul Gardner and Luc Gauthier would not be renewed. In addition, Coach Barry Trotz and his staff will see a reduced salary if games are missed because of prolonged CBA negotiations this fall.

Elsewhere around the league:

• The St. Louis organization trimmed 11 off-ice staff members following the 2002-03 season, and laid off more following the 2003-04 season. But Larry Pleau, the organization's senior vice president and general manager, said the majority of the changes were made because of the Blues' high hockey payroll and lack of recent playoff success.

''When you don't have the kind of success you want, that does dictate some of the changes you make and you're forced to make some rollbacks,'' Pleau said. ''Our revenues and expenses just weren't making sense.

''But also when there's uncertainty in the air, as there is now, you're forced to try to make some kind of knowledgeable decisions based on what you think will happen.''

• The Washington Capitals organization last week dismissed 11 employees, four on the hockey operations staff and seven in other departments.

• The Dallas organization fired 12 off-ice employees two weeks ago, with Stars president Jim Lites noting that club executives and coaches will take pay cuts if games are lost because of a work stoppage next season.

• Calgary's front-office staff will begin three-day workweeks on Sept. 15 if a new CBA hasn't been signed.

• Edmonton's front-office staff will begin four-day workweeks on Sept. 15 if a new CBA hasn't been signed.

• Toronto is set to cut front-office salaries from 25 to 33% if a new CBA hasn't been signed by Jan. 15, 2005.

The odds of the two sides reaching an agreement before the current one expires appear to have increased a bit recently, as representatives from the NHL and NHLPA met two weeks ago in Toronto for a negotiating session.

Another such session has been scheduled for later this month.

But that doesn't mean both sides won't be prepared for the worst.

''We do have a plan in place in case (the work stoppage) occurs,'' Carolina's Rutherford said. ''We have talked individually to every one of our people to let them know their status.''

John Glennon covers the Predators for The Tennessean. He can be reached at jg1sport@aol.com or at 615-259-8262.

[nccanes]

JR is quoted a number of times in this article....

Tuesday, 05/18/04
NHL payrolls cut as lockout looms
By JOHN GLENNON
Staff Writer


The Predators aren't the only NHL organization that's tightening the belt in preparation for a potential work stoppage this fall.

A number of other franchises have laid off employees, while others have decided upon shortened workweeks this fall, assuming the NHL and NHL Players' Association have not signed a new collective bargaining agreement by then.

The current CBA expires in mid-September, with many predicting a lockout of players at that point.

''A lot more people than just the players are affected by something like this,'' said Jim Rutherford, the Carolina Hurricanes president and general manager.

''It affects owners, fans and of course, employees. It could be a tough offseason in that respect.''

Rutherford speaks from experience, as the Carolina organization trimmed 15% of its employees at the end of the regular season last month, despite the fact the Hurricanes will play host to the NHL draft June 26-27.

''Most of our moves to date have come on the arena side of things, and that's because the activity of the arena naturally slows down with no basketball and hockey in the summer,'' Rutherford said. ''Still, it's not something that anybody takes pride in. But with the uncertainty of a new agreement, we had to take steps within our company.''

The Predators yesterday trimmed 11 employees from the payroll, and had previously revealed that the contract of scouts Paul Gardner and Luc Gauthier would not be renewed. In addition, Coach Barry Trotz and his staff will see a reduced salary if games are missed because of prolonged CBA negotiations this fall.

Elsewhere around the league:

• The St. Louis organization trimmed 11 off-ice staff members following the 2002-03 season, and laid off more following the 2003-04 season. But Larry Pleau, the organization's senior vice president and general manager, said the majority of the changes were made because of the Blues' high hockey payroll and lack of recent playoff success.

''When you don't have the kind of success you want, that does dictate some of the changes you make and you're forced to make some rollbacks,'' Pleau said. ''Our revenues and expenses just weren't making sense.

''But also when there's uncertainty in the air, as there is now, you're forced to try to make some kind of knowledgeable decisions based on what you think will happen.''

• The Washington Capitals organization last week dismissed 11 employees, four on the hockey operations staff and seven in other departments.

• The Dallas organization fired 12 off-ice employees two weeks ago, with Stars president Jim Lites noting that club executives and coaches will take pay cuts if games are lost because of a work stoppage next season.

• Calgary's front-office staff will begin three-day workweeks on Sept. 15 if a new CBA hasn't been signed.

• Edmonton's front-office staff will begin four-day workweeks on Sept. 15 if a new CBA hasn't been signed.

• Toronto is set to cut front-office salaries from 25 to 33% if a new CBA hasn't been signed by Jan. 15, 2005.

The odds of the two sides reaching an agreement before the current one expires appear to have increased a bit recently, as representatives from the NHL and NHLPA met two weeks ago in Toronto for a negotiating session.

Another such session has been scheduled for later this month.

But that doesn't mean both sides won't be prepared for the worst.

''We do have a plan in place in case (the work stoppage) occurs,'' Carolina's Rutherford said. ''We have talked individually to every one of our people to let them know their status.''

John Glennon covers the Predators for The Tennessean. He can be reached at jg1sport@aol.com or at 615-259-8262.

[caniac369]

Oh boy... :huh:

[caniac369]

Oh boy... :huh:

[Night Train]

Paul Maurice had some interesting points to make on the CBA subject during his 850 interview. It should be archived on their website.

Edit: Well, I can't find it so you'll have to take my word for it... :angel:

[Night Train]

Paul Maurice had some interesting points to make on the CBA subject during his 850 interview. It should be archived on their website.

Edit: Well, I can't find it so you'll have to take my word for it... :angel:

[Mona]

After watching these excellent playoff games, they HAVE to settle this thing.. I am more hungry for hockey than ever..

[Mona]

After watching these excellent playoff games, they HAVE to settle this thing.. I am more hungry for hockey than ever..

[Alicia]

Tuesday, May 25, 2004
Updated: May 26, 3:45 AM ET


Associated Press
TAMPA, Fla. -- NHL commissioner Gary Bettman promised again Tuesday that owners are determined to reach a radically different labor agreement no matter how long it takes and warned the players union not to test that resolve.




Owners and players representatives met for 2½ hours Tuesday, but Bettman reported no progress toward finalizing a deal both sides privately fear might not be reached until the 2004-05 season is lost.


"I don't doubt the players' resolve as Bob [Goodenow, the players union chief] stated to me and as some players I talked to stated, but nobody should doubt the owners' resolve," Bettman said. "If this is a test to see if the owners really mean it, it's a shame to have to go through all the hardship that will entail to prove the point. We'd rather not have to go through that."


A recent economic study prepared for the league, challenged by the players but repeatedly cited by Bettman, concluded that players get 76 percent of all league revenues -- far more than the percentage for the other major team sports.


Until the core issue is resolved, Bettman said both sides have decided there will be no bargaining on lesser issues.


"There is no doubt we understand each other's position clearly," he said. "Our problems are indisputable and need to be corrected ... [but] the union has a different view."


A handful of players have said they are overpaid in a league where the average salary is $1.8 million. But nearly all players fear a dramatic overhaul wouldn't allow big-market or high-revenue teams to pursue top free players, thus maintaining an upper stratosphere for elite players that exists in all other pro sports -- including the NFL.


The owners are determined to get a hard salary cap or a close replica that would establish a relatively low ceiling, likely in the mid-$30 million range per team. That would equalize salaries, but would all but eliminate the $10 million-a-year deals for players such as Jaromir Jagr.



Just because small-market Tampa Bay and Calgary reached the Stanley Cup finals doesn't change the owners' belief that the current deal is fundamentally flawed, Bettman said.


"It's fascinating and exciting, it's nice for a change to see different teams in the finals, but the last nine Cups have been won by teams in the top third in payrolls," Bettman said. "The ability for [a small-market finalist] to sustain itself is not there.


"Calgary had a very, very long dry spell of seven years without making playoffs, and it will be great if they make money for first time in whenever, but I don't think that means there's not a competitive problem or a stability problem."


Owners in other sports are watching the NHL labor talks closely.


"It's not about a salary cap. It's about making changes in the economics of baseball," said Boston Red Sox owner John Henry, who said changes are also necessary in his sport. "I can tell you right now, Gary Bettman is looking forward to the strike more than he's looking forward to the Calgary-Tampa Bay series."


Bettman again insisted there is plenty of time before the current labor agreement ends Sept. 15 to make a deal because the side issues can be resolved in "days, if not hours" once a revenue distribution plan is reached.


Asked whether training camps could remain open if Sept. 15 passed and there was no deal, Bettman said, "We can't live any longer under [this] CBA."


On other issues, Bettman said:



He expects no dramatic overhaul of the major rules changes proposed by general managers to open up the game, such as shrinking the size of goalie pads and moving the goal line closer to the end boards. However, the nets may move back by only 2 feet, rather than 3, because major structural changes would be required in some arenas otherwise.



Russia must be part of any new players rights agreement with the International Ice Hockey Federation. Some Russian clubs have threatened not to sign any agreement so they can negotiate higher fees individually.

[Alicia]

Tuesday, May 25, 2004
Updated: May 26, 3:45 AM ET


Associated Press
TAMPA, Fla. -- NHL commissioner Gary Bettman promised again Tuesday that owners are determined to reach a radically different labor agreement no matter how long it takes and warned the players union not to test that resolve.




Owners and players representatives met for 2½ hours Tuesday, but Bettman reported no progress toward finalizing a deal both sides privately fear might not be reached until the 2004-05 season is lost.


"I don't doubt the players' resolve as Bob [Goodenow, the players union chief] stated to me and as some players I talked to stated, but nobody should doubt the owners' resolve," Bettman said. "If this is a test to see if the owners really mean it, it's a shame to have to go through all the hardship that will entail to prove the point. We'd rather not have to go through that."


A recent economic study prepared for the league, challenged by the players but repeatedly cited by Bettman, concluded that players get 76 percent of all league revenues -- far more than the percentage for the other major team sports.


Until the core issue is resolved, Bettman said both sides have decided there will be no bargaining on lesser issues.


"There is no doubt we understand each other's position clearly," he said. "Our problems are indisputable and need to be corrected ... [but] the union has a different view."


A handful of players have said they are overpaid in a league where the average salary is $1.8 million. But nearly all players fear a dramatic overhaul wouldn't allow big-market or high-revenue teams to pursue top free players, thus maintaining an upper stratosphere for elite players that exists in all other pro sports -- including the NFL.


The owners are determined to get a hard salary cap or a close replica that would establish a relatively low ceiling, likely in the mid-$30 million range per team. That would equalize salaries, but would all but eliminate the $10 million-a-year deals for players such as Jaromir Jagr.



Just because small-market Tampa Bay and Calgary reached the Stanley Cup finals doesn't change the owners' belief that the current deal is fundamentally flawed, Bettman said.


"It's fascinating and exciting, it's nice for a change to see different teams in the finals, but the last nine Cups have been won by teams in the top third in payrolls," Bettman said. "The ability for [a small-market finalist] to sustain itself is not there.


"Calgary had a very, very long dry spell of seven years without making playoffs, and it will be great if they make money for first time in whenever, but I don't think that means there's not a competitive problem or a stability problem."


Owners in other sports are watching the NHL labor talks closely.


"It's not about a salary cap. It's about making changes in the economics of baseball," said Boston Red Sox owner John Henry, who said changes are also necessary in his sport. "I can tell you right now, Gary Bettman is looking forward to the strike more than he's looking forward to the Calgary-Tampa Bay series."


Bettman again insisted there is plenty of time before the current labor agreement ends Sept. 15 to make a deal because the side issues can be resolved in "days, if not hours" once a revenue distribution plan is reached.


Asked whether training camps could remain open if Sept. 15 passed and there was no deal, Bettman said, "We can't live any longer under [this] CBA."


On other issues, Bettman said:



He expects no dramatic overhaul of the major rules changes proposed by general managers to open up the game, such as shrinking the size of goalie pads and moving the goal line closer to the end boards. However, the nets may move back by only 2 feet, rather than 3, because major structural changes would be required in some arenas otherwise.



Russia must be part of any new players rights agreement with the International Ice Hockey Federation. Some Russian clubs have threatened not to sign any agreement so they can negotiate higher fees individually.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I'd say the discussion of the "state of hockey" is quite relevant to this CBA thing so I'm putting this here. This guy has some points.....none of which are that the game is "boring."

DAN BROWN:
I feel nothing for hockey
CBC News Viewpoint | May 20, 2004

What are you reading these days? I'm reading Stephen Cole's The Last Hurrah, which is a compelling account of the 1966-67 NHL season, the final one before the league expanded to 12 teams from the original six. It's a colourful, entertaining read.

Cole is a master storyteller and I recommend the book (full disclosure: we used to work together as arts writers at the National Post). If the conventional wisdom is correct and hockey is indeed an integral part of this country's culture, then no one has done a better job of chronicling our national obsession.

I should also, in the interests of full disclosure, point out that I'm not a hockey fan. The cold, ugly truth is that I'd rather read about hockey than actually watch a game. In fact, it's not an exaggeration to say that I feel nothing for hockey. I couldn't care less who wins the Stanley Cup; more to the point, I have no idea who won the cup last year.

Now, before you send me an angry e-mail branding me a traitor to Canada, give me a chance to explain myself.

It's not that I've never been a hockey fan. When I was a kid growing up in the '70s my family spent two years in Montreal, and you would have been hard-pressed to find a more avid supporter of the home side. Because Pete Mahovlich lived a few doors down from us, our neighbourhood had a special aura. Needless to say, I could point out the house, a few suburbs over, where Bunny Larocque hung his skates, and that autograph I got from Mario Tremblay when I bumped into him in a Harvey's restaurant? I still have it.

Imagine the culture shock when we moved to small-town Ontario, where everything was Darryl Sittler this and Mike Palmateer that. Still, I clung to my former favourites; I even kept collecting Canadiens hockey cards – I traded away a pristine Borje Salming rookie card, I think I may have got a dog-eared Doug Riseborough in return.

Yes, I have no problem waxing rhapsodic about the hockey of my childhood. And I think that's very telling. Cole's book is the same way – he spends the entire volume raving about what hockey was like back then, without spending a word on the players of today. By omission, he damns the modern era. I believe it was Ken Dryden in The Game who observed that the golden age of anything is the age of one's childhood, and whether you're talking about the Leafs of 1967 or the Habs of 1977, the glory days have passed.

Maybe losing touch with hockey is just a natural part of growing up. Maybe it happens to all of us. I don't think that's the whole story, though – at least it isn't for me. I guess the larger truth is that somewhere along the line I went from thinking of hockey as a necessary component of our culture to seeing what it really was all along: a business.

This is why I can't get sentimental about the hockey of today. To me, having strong feelings for the Habs or the Leafs is like having strong feelings for CIBC or Petro-Canada or Rogers Cable or any other corporation. Because that's what hockey clubs are: corporations that exist to make money.

And like all other corporations, most of the time they take their customers for granted. If the people who run hockey – and I mean players and management alike – really cared about the fans, there wouldn't be all this talk about a labour dispute possibly causing an abridged season next winter, or no season at all. If they really cared about the fans, they'd lower the ticket prices once in a while. If they really cared about the fans, they wouldn't demand such huge salaries since it's the fans who ultimately pay them.

Instead, what fans get are teams that care more about the bottom line than tradition. Every time I turn on a game, I have a hard time telling which teams are playing because even simple things like the uniforms don't stay the same from season to season. And every time the Hubble telescope discovers another galaxy, I think "Oh no, not another excuse for more expansion teams." From what I hear, even Atlanta has a squad these days – which seems strange to me, because I could have sworn they had one when I was a kid.

And don't even get me started on the violence. Hockey can be such a graceful, beautiful sport, but the powers-that-be refuse to clean it up. What has to happen before there's a change? Does someone have to actually be killed on the ice?

So if the league contracts, or goes out of business entirely, it won't matter to me. Hockey doesn't have a right to be part of our culture, and if another sport replaces it as the national pastime I won't be upset. Canada without hockey might seem like a nightmare, but I'm sure this country will survive.

There, I've had my say. Now bring on the angry e-mails. But keep one thing in mind as you compose them: you can't make me feel a connection to something for which I have no feelings. You can't force me to love professional hockey. Heck, the last game I watched from start to finish was the 2002 gold-medal contest between the U.S. and Canada. Olympic hockey – now that's a different story.

If you're interested in reading some of the e-mail responses they are here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_browndan/20040520.html Some of them are very interesting.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I'd say the discussion of the "state of hockey" is quite relevant to this CBA thing so I'm putting this here. This guy has some points.....none of which are that the game is "boring."

DAN BROWN:
I feel nothing for hockey
CBC News Viewpoint | May 20, 2004

What are you reading these days? I'm reading Stephen Cole's The Last Hurrah, which is a compelling account of the 1966-67 NHL season, the final one before the league expanded to 12 teams from the original six. It's a colourful, entertaining read.

Cole is a master storyteller and I recommend the book (full disclosure: we used to work together as arts writers at the National Post). If the conventional wisdom is correct and hockey is indeed an integral part of this country's culture, then no one has done a better job of chronicling our national obsession.

I should also, in the interests of full disclosure, point out that I'm not a hockey fan. The cold, ugly truth is that I'd rather read about hockey than actually watch a game. In fact, it's not an exaggeration to say that I feel nothing for hockey. I couldn't care less who wins the Stanley Cup; more to the point, I have no idea who won the cup last year.

Now, before you send me an angry e-mail branding me a traitor to Canada, give me a chance to explain myself.

It's not that I've never been a hockey fan. When I was a kid growing up in the '70s my family spent two years in Montreal, and you would have been hard-pressed to find a more avid supporter of the home side. Because Pete Mahovlich lived a few doors down from us, our neighbourhood had a special aura. Needless to say, I could point out the house, a few suburbs over, where Bunny Larocque hung his skates, and that autograph I got from Mario Tremblay when I bumped into him in a Harvey's restaurant? I still have it.

Imagine the culture shock when we moved to small-town Ontario, where everything was Darryl Sittler this and Mike Palmateer that. Still, I clung to my former favourites; I even kept collecting Canadiens hockey cards – I traded away a pristine Borje Salming rookie card, I think I may have got a dog-eared Doug Riseborough in return.

Yes, I have no problem waxing rhapsodic about the hockey of my childhood. And I think that's very telling. Cole's book is the same way – he spends the entire volume raving about what hockey was like back then, without spending a word on the players of today. By omission, he damns the modern era. I believe it was Ken Dryden in The Game who observed that the golden age of anything is the age of one's childhood, and whether you're talking about the Leafs of 1967 or the Habs of 1977, the glory days have passed.

Maybe losing touch with hockey is just a natural part of growing up. Maybe it happens to all of us. I don't think that's the whole story, though – at least it isn't for me. I guess the larger truth is that somewhere along the line I went from thinking of hockey as a necessary component of our culture to seeing what it really was all along: a business.

This is why I can't get sentimental about the hockey of today. To me, having strong feelings for the Habs or the Leafs is like having strong feelings for CIBC or Petro-Canada or Rogers Cable or any other corporation. Because that's what hockey clubs are: corporations that exist to make money.

And like all other corporations, most of the time they take their customers for granted. If the people who run hockey – and I mean players and management alike – really cared about the fans, there wouldn't be all this talk about a labour dispute possibly causing an abridged season next winter, or no season at all. If they really cared about the fans, they'd lower the ticket prices once in a while. If they really cared about the fans, they wouldn't demand such huge salaries since it's the fans who ultimately pay them.

Instead, what fans get are teams that care more about the bottom line than tradition. Every time I turn on a game, I have a hard time telling which teams are playing because even simple things like the uniforms don't stay the same from season to season. And every time the Hubble telescope discovers another galaxy, I think "Oh no, not another excuse for more expansion teams." From what I hear, even Atlanta has a squad these days – which seems strange to me, because I could have sworn they had one when I was a kid.

And don't even get me started on the violence. Hockey can be such a graceful, beautiful sport, but the powers-that-be refuse to clean it up. What has to happen before there's a change? Does someone have to actually be killed on the ice?

So if the league contracts, or goes out of business entirely, it won't matter to me. Hockey doesn't have a right to be part of our culture, and if another sport replaces it as the national pastime I won't be upset. Canada without hockey might seem like a nightmare, but I'm sure this country will survive.

There, I've had my say. Now bring on the angry e-mails. But keep one thing in mind as you compose them: you can't make me feel a connection to something for which I have no feelings. You can't force me to love professional hockey. Heck, the last game I watched from start to finish was the 2002 gold-medal contest between the U.S. and Canada. Olympic hockey – now that's a different story.

If you're interested in reading some of the e-mail responses they are here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_browndan/20040520.html Some of them are very interesting.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Interesting article, thanks for sharing. *S* He brings up some of the points of why I prefer college sports over professional sports, especially football and basketball. But it has always been my experience that professional hockey players are much more public accessible and much more down to earth than their counterparts in professional baseball, football, and basketball, yet the other sports popularity doesn't seem to be waning. The SCF's are getting a 1 share TV rating. Not very good.

It's kind of funny that the author enjoys Olympic hockey over professional, considering all the whacky rules that are used. :eek:

[Cool Hand Luke]

Interesting article, thanks for sharing. *S* He brings up some of the points of why I prefer college sports over professional sports, especially football and basketball. But it has always been my experience that professional hockey players are much more public accessible and much more down to earth than their counterparts in professional baseball, football, and basketball, yet the other sports popularity doesn't seem to be waning. The SCF's are getting a 1 share TV rating. Not very good.

It's kind of funny that the author enjoys Olympic hockey over professional, considering all the whacky rules that are used. :eek:

[tommy]

ESPN the Magazine just won't shut up about the lockout coming up... I've counted like 5 references in non-hockey parts of this latest issue that comment on how there's not gonna be hockey cause of the CBA next year... grrr... lol

[tommy]

ESPN the Magazine just won't shut up about the lockout coming up... I've counted like 5 references in non-hockey parts of this latest issue that comment on how there's not gonna be hockey cause of the CBA next year... grrr... lol

[talkingcanes]

ESPN the Magazine just won't shut up about the lockout coming up... I've counted like 5 references in non-hockey parts of this latest issue that comment on how there's not gonna be hockey cause of the CBA next year... grrr... lol

ESPN the Magazine is like ESPN the TV channel. If the glass is half full, pour some of it out and make it as negative as possible. If they didn't show hockey once in a while, I could live without ESPN as part of my cable package. I can't stand them.

[talkingcanes]

ESPN the Magazine just won't shut up about the lockout coming up... I've counted like 5 references in non-hockey parts of this latest issue that comment on how there's not gonna be hockey cause of the CBA next year... grrr... lol

ESPN the Magazine is like ESPN the TV channel. If the glass is half full, pour some of it out and make it as negative as possible. If they didn't show hockey once in a while, I could live without ESPN as part of my cable package. I can't stand them.

[Mona]

I think for the most part ESPN could care less if there was no hockey next season or ever again. Most of the announcers sound like they are half asleep and continue to get names of teams and players wrong. :mad:

[Mona]

I think for the most part ESPN could care less if there was no hockey next season or ever again. Most of the announcers sound like they are half asleep and continue to get names of teams and players wrong. :mad:

[SouthernCaniac]

The above article makes me quite irritated. i guess its easier to sit at your keyboard and throw out bland proclamations that hockey doesn't deserve to be part of Canadian culture than it is to stick with a changing sport. Find me any sport anywhere that is not commercialized in this day and age. It doesn't make it right, but it is the reality. This kind of attitude closely resembles the debate going on in the world of surfing, too. Pro versus soul. Bunch o whiners :sick:

[SouthernCaniac]

The above article makes me quite irritated. i guess its easier to sit at your keyboard and throw out bland proclamations that hockey doesn't deserve to be part of Canadian culture than it is to stick with a changing sport. Find me any sport anywhere that is not commercialized in this day and age. It doesn't make it right, but it is the reality. This kind of attitude closely resembles the debate going on in the world of surfing, too. Pro versus soul. Bunch o whiners :sick:

[Captain Slack]

Goodenow denies reported offer

TSN.ca Staff

6/10/2004

Bob Goodenow, the executive director of the National Hockey League Players Association, has denied an RDS.ca report regarding a players' association offer to cut salaries.

RDS.ca, citing a source, claimed that the NHLPA offered to reduce salaries by 10%, set a luxury tax at $45-million and a rookie salary cap at $850,000 including all bonuses. According to the reported proposal, free agency would begin at 28 or 29 years of age, rather than the current 31.

Goodenow, contacted in Toronto Thursday, flatly denied the accuracy of the report.

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman, representing the owners, has been vocal in his attempts to get "cost-certainty" into the NHL. In February, the NHL commissioned financier Arthur Levitt to file a report on the state of the league's finances and Levitt said that NHL teams lost $273-million US during the 2002-2003 season.

The NHL's agreement with the NHLPA expires on September 15, 2004 and there has been a great deal of speculation that the 2004-2005 season could be wiped out entirely by a lockout.

[Captain Slack]

Goodenow denies reported offer

TSN.ca Staff

6/10/2004

Bob Goodenow, the executive director of the National Hockey League Players Association, has denied an RDS.ca report regarding a players' association offer to cut salaries.

RDS.ca, citing a source, claimed that the NHLPA offered to reduce salaries by 10%, set a luxury tax at $45-million and a rookie salary cap at $850,000 including all bonuses. According to the reported proposal, free agency would begin at 28 or 29 years of age, rather than the current 31.

Goodenow, contacted in Toronto Thursday, flatly denied the accuracy of the report.

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman, representing the owners, has been vocal in his attempts to get "cost-certainty" into the NHL. In February, the NHL commissioned financier Arthur Levitt to file a report on the state of the league's finances and Levitt said that NHL teams lost $273-million US during the 2002-2003 season.

The NHL's agreement with the NHLPA expires on September 15, 2004 and there has been a great deal of speculation that the 2004-2005 season could be wiped out entirely by a lockout.

[Captain Slack]

Goodenow denies reported offer

TSN.ca Staff

6/10/2004

Bob Goodenow, the executive director of the National Hockey League Players Association, has denied an RDS.ca report regarding a players' association offer to cut salaries.

RDS.ca, citing a source, claimed that the NHLPA offered to reduce salaries by 10%, set a luxury tax at $45-million and a rookie salary cap at $850,000 including all bonuses. According to the reported proposal, free agency would begin at 28 or 29 years of age, rather than the current 31.

Goodenow, contacted in Toronto Thursday, flatly denied the accuracy of the report.

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman, representing the owners, has been vocal in his attempts to get "cost-certainty" into the NHL. In February, the NHL commissioned financier Arthur Levitt to file a report on the state of the league's finances and Levitt said that NHL teams lost $273-million US during the 2002-2003 season.

The NHL's agreement with the NHLPA expires on September 15, 2004 and there has been a great deal of speculation that the 2004-2005 season could be wiped out entirely by a lockout.

[nccanes]

The feeling is that the NHL will be shutting down operations


By ERIC DUHATSCHEK
Wednesday, June 9, 2004 - Page S1

George Santayana, the American philosopher, probably wasn't thinking about the National Hockey League when he observed: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

However, Santayana's sentiment seems singularly appropriate now that the 2003-04 season is finally over and the Tampa Bay Lightning are new Stanley Cup champions

Ten years ago, the NHL was in the same position as it is today -- coming off a stirring Stanley Cup final, which culminated with the New York Rangers ending a 54-year championship drought by edging the Cinderella Vancouver Canucks in seven hard-earned games.

Television ratings in Canada were off the charts. In a seminal cover story, Sports Illustrated detailed why the NHL was hot and the NBA was not. The NHL's collective agreement had expired at the start of the previous year, but there was a sense that owners and players would eventually find a solution to their various differences and capitalize on hockey's new-found cachet.

Instead, talks dragged on and on and when the two sides ultimately couldn't come to an agreement by early October, the owners locked out the players on the eve of the regular season. It took almost four more months of bargaining, or until just before the drop-dead date to cancel the season altogether, before the two sides reached a settlement and salvaged a shortened 48-game season.

Now, a decade later, the parallels between '94 and '04 are startlingly similar on some levels and widely different on others.

Once again, a sprightly U.S.-based favourite, the Lightning, edged a popular underdog, the Calgary Flames, by a single goal in the seventh and deciding game of the Stanley Cup final.

In a year when there was much complaining about the on-ice product, the Lightning showed that a team playing up-tempo, entertaining hockey could actually win a championship, in much the same way as the Rangers of Mark Messier, Alexei Kovalev and Brian Leetch did. Television ratings in Canada soared to their highest levels in 10 years, as the nation rallied around the Flames.

Unhappily, that is where the similarities between then and now end. Unlike '94, the NHL is now but a tiny blip on the U. S. radar screen. American TV ratings, regular season and in the playoffs, were an unmitigated disaster. NBC, the league's new network television partner, did not even pay a rights fee to broadcast a handful of games next season. Instead, the two plan to share whatever revenues they may generate, once production costs are subtracted.

More ominously, there is not even a hint of optimism going forward in terms of negotiating a new collective bargaining agreement before the start of next season.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman hinted during the final that if an agreement with the players' association is not in place by Sept. 15, the day the current deal expires, then training camps may not open. This is a harder line than the NHL took 10 years ago .

Many league officials -- who cannot speak publicly about CBA negotiations under penalty of a heavy fine from the commissioner's office -- believe the league will shut down operations for six to 18 months if necessary.Traditionally, in professional sport, owners tend to crack before the players do, but Bettman received one guarantee when he signed his current contract a few years back that suggests things may be different this time around.

When the NHL board of governors extended Bettman's tenure, they also gave him extraordinary veto power on the matter of a new CBA. Under terms of Bettman's contract, if he recommends a tentative agreement to the board, then he'll need only a simple majority -- or 16 owners -- to certify it. However, if Bettman presents an offer to the board, but withholds his blessing, he needs only eight votes to turn it down.

Accordingly, even if all the usual suspects waver about a lockout and want to play -- New York, Detroit, Philadelphia etc. -- Bettman only needs to keep eight owners on his side, not 30. So when Bettman warned the players in his Stanley Cup news conference, don't test our resolve, there may actually be something to his threat.

These negotiations are not just about next year," said Bettman, during the final, "it's about the future our game."

Sounds like the beat of war drums to me.

[nccanes]

The feeling is that the NHL will be shutting down operations


By ERIC DUHATSCHEK
Wednesday, June 9, 2004 - Page S1

George Santayana, the American philosopher, probably wasn't thinking about the National Hockey League when he observed: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

However, Santayana's sentiment seems singularly appropriate now that the 2003-04 season is finally over and the Tampa Bay Lightning are new Stanley Cup champions

Ten years ago, the NHL was in the same position as it is today -- coming off a stirring Stanley Cup final, which culminated with the New York Rangers ending a 54-year championship drought by edging the Cinderella Vancouver Canucks in seven hard-earned games.

Television ratings in Canada were off the charts. In a seminal cover story, Sports Illustrated detailed why the NHL was hot and the NBA was not. The NHL's collective agreement had expired at the start of the previous year, but there was a sense that owners and players would eventually find a solution to their various differences and capitalize on hockey's new-found cachet.

Instead, talks dragged on and on and when the two sides ultimately couldn't come to an agreement by early October, the owners locked out the players on the eve of the regular season. It took almost four more months of bargaining, or until just before the drop-dead date to cancel the season altogether, before the two sides reached a settlement and salvaged a shortened 48-game season.

Now, a decade later, the parallels between '94 and '04 are startlingly similar on some levels and widely different on others.

Once again, a sprightly U.S.-based favourite, the Lightning, edged a popular underdog, the Calgary Flames, by a single goal in the seventh and deciding game of the Stanley Cup final.

In a year when there was much complaining about the on-ice product, the Lightning showed that a team playing up-tempo, entertaining hockey could actually win a championship, in much the same way as the Rangers of Mark Messier, Alexei Kovalev and Brian Leetch did. Television ratings in Canada soared to their highest levels in 10 years, as the nation rallied around the Flames.

Unhappily, that is where the similarities between then and now end. Unlike '94, the NHL is now but a tiny blip on the U. S. radar screen. American TV ratings, regular season and in the playoffs, were an unmitigated disaster. NBC, the league's new network television partner, did not even pay a rights fee to broadcast a handful of games next season. Instead, the two plan to share whatever revenues they may generate, once production costs are subtracted.

More ominously, there is not even a hint of optimism going forward in terms of negotiating a new collective bargaining agreement before the start of next season.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman hinted during the final that if an agreement with the players' association is not in place by Sept. 15, the day the current deal expires, then training camps may not open. This is a harder line than the NHL took 10 years ago .

Many league officials -- who cannot speak publicly about CBA negotiations under penalty of a heavy fine from the commissioner's office -- believe the league will shut down operations for six to 18 months if necessary.Traditionally, in professional sport, owners tend to crack before the players do, but Bettman received one guarantee when he signed his current contract a few years back that suggests things may be different this time around.

When the NHL board of governors extended Bettman's tenure, they also gave him extraordinary veto power on the matter of a new CBA. Under terms of Bettman's contract, if he recommends a tentative agreement to the board, then he'll need only a simple majority -- or 16 owners -- to certify it. However, if Bettman presents an offer to the board, but withholds his blessing, he needs only eight votes to turn it down.

Accordingly, even if all the usual suspects waver about a lockout and want to play -- New York, Detroit, Philadelphia etc. -- Bettman only needs to keep eight owners on his side, not 30. So when Bettman warned the players in his Stanley Cup news conference, don't test our resolve, there may actually be something to his threat.

These negotiations are not just about next year," said Bettman, during the final, "it's about the future our game."

Sounds like the beat of war drums to me.

[nccanes]

The feeling is that the NHL will be shutting down operations


By ERIC DUHATSCHEK
Wednesday, June 9, 2004 - Page S1

George Santayana, the American philosopher, probably wasn't thinking about the National Hockey League when he observed: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

However, Santayana's sentiment seems singularly appropriate now that the 2003-04 season is finally over and the Tampa Bay Lightning are new Stanley Cup champions

Ten years ago, the NHL was in the same position as it is today -- coming off a stirring Stanley Cup final, which culminated with the New York Rangers ending a 54-year championship drought by edging the Cinderella Vancouver Canucks in seven hard-earned games.

Television ratings in Canada were off the charts. In a seminal cover story, Sports Illustrated detailed why the NHL was hot and the NBA was not. The NHL's collective agreement had expired at the start of the previous year, but there was a sense that owners and players would eventually find a solution to their various differences and capitalize on hockey's new-found cachet.

Instead, talks dragged on and on and when the two sides ultimately couldn't come to an agreement by early October, the owners locked out the players on the eve of the regular season. It took almost four more months of bargaining, or until just before the drop-dead date to cancel the season altogether, before the two sides reached a settlement and salvaged a shortened 48-game season.

Now, a decade later, the parallels between '94 and '04 are startlingly similar on some levels and widely different on others.

Once again, a sprightly U.S.-based favourite, the Lightning, edged a popular underdog, the Calgary Flames, by a single goal in the seventh and deciding game of the Stanley Cup final.

In a year when there was much complaining about the on-ice product, the Lightning showed that a team playing up-tempo, entertaining hockey could actually win a championship, in much the same way as the Rangers of Mark Messier, Alexei Kovalev and Brian Leetch did. Television ratings in Canada soared to their highest levels in 10 years, as the nation rallied around the Flames.

Unhappily, that is where the similarities between then and now end. Unlike '94, the NHL is now but a tiny blip on the U. S. radar screen. American TV ratings, regular season and in the playoffs, were an unmitigated disaster. NBC, the league's new network television partner, did not even pay a rights fee to broadcast a handful of games next season. Instead, the two plan to share whatever revenues they may generate, once production costs are subtracted.

More ominously, there is not even a hint of optimism going forward in terms of negotiating a new collective bargaining agreement before the start of next season.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman hinted during the final that if an agreement with the players' association is not in place by Sept. 15, the day the current deal expires, then training camps may not open. This is a harder line than the NHL took 10 years ago .

Many league officials -- who cannot speak publicly about CBA negotiations under penalty of a heavy fine from the commissioner's office -- believe the league will shut down operations for six to 18 months if necessary.Traditionally, in professional sport, owners tend to crack before the players do, but Bettman received one guarantee when he signed his current contract a few years back that suggests things may be different this time around.

When the NHL board of governors extended Bettman's tenure, they also gave him extraordinary veto power on the matter of a new CBA. Under terms of Bettman's contract, if he recommends a tentative agreement to the board, then he'll need only a simple majority -- or 16 owners -- to certify it. However, if Bettman presents an offer to the board, but withholds his blessing, he needs only eight votes to turn it down.

Accordingly, even if all the usual suspects waver about a lockout and want to play -- New York, Detroit, Philadelphia etc. -- Bettman only needs to keep eight owners on his side, not 30. So when Bettman warned the players in his Stanley Cup news conference, don't test our resolve, there may actually be something to his threat.

These negotiations are not just about next year," said Bettman, during the final, "it's about the future our game."

Sounds like the beat of war drums to me.

[nccanes]

I get really confused when they start talking about Euro contracts and such. How could a player even SIGN a 1 year contract that could be enforceable? Let's say Rod signed a 1 year contract overseas. Then the NHL doesn't play until December. Once the NHLPA signs its agreement with ownership, isn't Rod CONTRACTED to come back and play of the Canes? I could see this would be the case for UFAs, they can do whatever they'd like, but certainly most players would be contractually obligated. I guess in the case of RFAs w/o arbitration, they could just hold out and play for the whole season elsewhere?

Very confusing....

Labour talk dominates NHL awards
Canadian Press

6/10/2004

TORONTO (CP) - On a day meant to honour the game's best, the looming labour war was front and centre.

The NHL's collective bargaining agreement expires Sept. 15, at which point a lockout will wipe out training camps and eventually the beginning of the regular season until a deal is struck with the NHL Player's Association.

It sounds like it's going to be a long wait.

``If you want my honest opinion, I don't think we're going to be starting the season,'' said Colorado Avalanche captain Joe Sakic. ``To me it just looks like (NHL commissioner) Gary Bettman doesn't want to start unless he gets everything he wants, so I don't expect hockey.''

Bob Goodenow, executive director of the NHLPA, didn't blink and eye when apprised of Sakic's comment.

``As a negotiator I'm always optimistic but the circumstances as where we are today, no, I'm not optimistic given the state of what we're hearing from the other side,'' Goodenow said Thursday at the NHLPA's Lester B. Pearson Award luncheon.

The two sides met in April and May but very little progress has been made. The NHLPA refuses to buy into any system that either resembles a salary cap or guarantees a percentage of revenues to the league's owners.

So the players are ready to fight.

``My life is a lot easier because of what guys have sacrificed in '94,'' Conn Smythe Trophy winner Brad Richards said Thursday night at the NHL awards, referring to the last lockout. ``I'm not going to be selfish and ruin our future. It's a union, and I'm one small piece of it.''

So with few people expecting NHL hockey next fall, players are looking at their options and there was a familiar theme among the nominees at the awards Thursday night.

``I'm looking at Europe right now,'' said Florida Panthers netminder Roberto Luongo. ``We'll make a decision in time but I can't go a whole season without playing hockey, that's for sure.''

A report in Russia on Thursday had Detroit Red Wings star centre Pavel Datsyuk already signing a contract with a Russian League club.

Richards, like Luongo, said he would likely play in the Swiss League if it comes to that.

``I just want to be prepared,'' Richards said. ``I don't want to be sitting at home in P.E.I. or Florida doing nothing. I'd rather be playing.

``There's already some players on our team that have confirmations to play in Europe. About seven or eight European players on our team have already looked into it.''

Teammate Martin St. Louis may follow Richards to Europe.

``I have thought about that, but at this point I'm going to wait and see how I feel after the World Cup,'' St. Louis said at the NHL Awards. ``This has been a lot of hockey for my body over the last year, so I just want to see how I feel.''

The major stumbling block is that nearly all of the NHLers looking to sign in Europe will want to insist on some form of opt-out clause so that if the NHL season does finally get going, they can return to their NHL clubs.

``That would definitely be something I would have to consider and put in any contract I'd sign because when the best league in the world gets going again, you want to make sure you're able to join up again,'' St. Louis said.

That's fine and dandy but European clubs also don't want to be left stranded with depleted rosters in the middle of their seasons. They don't have minor-league affiliates and can't summon up players.

``I think European teams would prefer signing guys for the whole year,'' said Ottawa Senators defenceman Zdeno Chara, who is also thinking of playing in Europe. ``In Europe, some clubs can only sign five foreign players and dress four of them.

``If there's no lockout and guys leave that would devastate European teams.''

But few of the star players questioned Thursday night could see themselves committing to one year in Europe.

``Yeah, that's the issue right now,'' said Luongo, who sounded like he's given the idea more than a little thought. ``Obviously if the lockout is ended and we start the season, it would be nice to come back.

``I don't want to commit to a whole year and then the season starts and not be able to come back.''

Rookie netminder Andrew Raycroft of the Boston Bruins said that was a big issue for him.

``If you have to go over there, it's a pretty large commitment,'' he said. ``If the NHL gets going again, most guys don't want to be in Europe, it gives other guys an opportunity to take your NHL job.''

Europe's not for everyone. Star defenceman Scott Niedermayer of the New Jersey Devils will give it a pass.

``I thought about it but we've played a lot of hockey in New Jersey over the last few years so if there is some time off, I'll use it to my advantage, get more rest and spend some time with my family,'' said Niedermayer.

San Jose Sharks centre Alyn McCauley also won't go to Europe.

``If need be, I'll take some courses and increase my brain a little bit,'' he said.

Calgary Flames superstar Jarome Iginla hopes he doesn't even have to think about needing a place to play next fall.

``I'm still a wishful thinker,'' he said. ``I know the news isn't positive right now. But contract negotiations happen to players and it takes time and then they get it done late, that's my hope.''

[nccanes]

I get really confused when they start talking about Euro contracts and such. How could a player even SIGN a 1 year contract that could be enforceable? Let's say Rod signed a 1 year contract overseas. Then the NHL doesn't play until December. Once the NHLPA signs its agreement with ownership, isn't Rod CONTRACTED to come back and play of the Canes? I could see this would be the case for UFAs, they can do whatever they'd like, but certainly most players would be contractually obligated. I guess in the case of RFAs w/o arbitration, they could just hold out and play for the whole season elsewhere?

Very confusing....

Labour talk dominates NHL awards
Canadian Press

6/10/2004

TORONTO (CP) - On a day meant to honour the game's best, the looming labour war was front and centre.

The NHL's collective bargaining agreement expires Sept. 15, at which point a lockout will wipe out training camps and eventually the beginning of the regular season until a deal is struck with the NHL Player's Association.

It sounds like it's going to be a long wait.

``If you want my honest opinion, I don't think we're going to be starting the season,'' said Colorado Avalanche captain Joe Sakic. ``To me it just looks like (NHL commissioner) Gary Bettman doesn't want to start unless he gets everything he wants, so I don't expect hockey.''

Bob Goodenow, executive director of the NHLPA, didn't blink and eye when apprised of Sakic's comment.

``As a negotiator I'm always optimistic but the circumstances as where we are today, no, I'm not optimistic given the state of what we're hearing from the other side,'' Goodenow said Thursday at the NHLPA's Lester B. Pearson Award luncheon.

The two sides met in April and May but very little progress has been made. The NHLPA refuses to buy into any system that either resembles a salary cap or guarantees a percentage of revenues to the league's owners.

So the players are ready to fight.

``My life is a lot easier because of what guys have sacrificed in '94,'' Conn Smythe Trophy winner Brad Richards said Thursday night at the NHL awards, referring to the last lockout. ``I'm not going to be selfish and ruin our future. It's a union, and I'm one small piece of it.''

So with few people expecting NHL hockey next fall, players are looking at their options and there was a familiar theme among the nominees at the awards Thursday night.

``I'm looking at Europe right now,'' said Florida Panthers netminder Roberto Luongo. ``We'll make a decision in time but I can't go a whole season without playing hockey, that's for sure.''

A report in Russia on Thursday had Detroit Red Wings star centre Pavel Datsyuk already signing a contract with a Russian League club.

Richards, like Luongo, said he would likely play in the Swiss League if it comes to that.

``I just want to be prepared,'' Richards said. ``I don't want to be sitting at home in P.E.I. or Florida doing nothing. I'd rather be playing.

``There's already some players on our team that have confirmations to play in Europe. About seven or eight European players on our team have already looked into it.''

Teammate Martin St. Louis may follow Richards to Europe.

``I have thought about that, but at this point I'm going to wait and see how I feel after the World Cup,'' St. Louis said at the NHL Awards. ``This has been a lot of hockey for my body over the last year, so I just want to see how I feel.''

The major stumbling block is that nearly all of the NHLers looking to sign in Europe will want to insist on some form of opt-out clause so that if the NHL season does finally get going, they can return to their NHL clubs.

``That would definitely be something I would have to consider and put in any contract I'd sign because when the best league in the world gets going again, you want to make sure you're able to join up again,'' St. Louis said.

That's fine and dandy but European clubs also don't want to be left stranded with depleted rosters in the middle of their seasons. They don't have minor-league affiliates and can't summon up players.

``I think European teams would prefer signing guys for the whole year,'' said Ottawa Senators defenceman Zdeno Chara, who is also thinking of playing in Europe. ``In Europe, some clubs can only sign five foreign players and dress four of them.

``If there's no lockout and guys leave that would devastate European teams.''

But few of the star players questioned Thursday night could see themselves committing to one year in Europe.

``Yeah, that's the issue right now,'' said Luongo, who sounded like he's given the idea more than a little thought. ``Obviously if the lockout is ended and we start the season, it would be nice to come back.

``I don't want to commit to a whole year and then the season starts and not be able to come back.''

Rookie netminder Andrew Raycroft of the Boston Bruins said that was a big issue for him.

``If you have to go over there, it's a pretty large commitment,'' he said. ``If the NHL gets going again, most guys don't want to be in Europe, it gives other guys an opportunity to take your NHL job.''

Europe's not for everyone. Star defenceman Scott Niedermayer of the New Jersey Devils will give it a pass.

``I thought about it but we've played a lot of hockey in New Jersey over the last few years so if there is some time off, I'll use it to my advantage, get more rest and spend some time with my family,'' said Niedermayer.

San Jose Sharks centre Alyn McCauley also won't go to Europe.

``If need be, I'll take some courses and increase my brain a little bit,'' he said.

Calgary Flames superstar Jarome Iginla hopes he doesn't even have to think about needing a place to play next fall.

``I'm still a wishful thinker,'' he said. ``I know the news isn't positive right now. But contract negotiations happen to players and it takes time and then they get it done late, that's my hope.''

[nccanes]

I get really confused when they start talking about Euro contracts and such. How could a player even SIGN a 1 year contract that could be enforceable? Let's say Rod signed a 1 year contract overseas. Then the NHL doesn't play until December. Once the NHLPA signs its agreement with ownership, isn't Rod CONTRACTED to come back and play of the Canes? I could see this would be the case for UFAs, they can do whatever they'd like, but certainly most players would be contractually obligated. I guess in the case of RFAs w/o arbitration, they could just hold out and play for the whole season elsewhere?

Very confusing....

Labour talk dominates NHL awards
Canadian Press

6/10/2004

TORONTO (CP) - On a day meant to honour the game's best, the looming labour war was front and centre.

The NHL's collective bargaining agreement expires Sept. 15, at which point a lockout will wipe out training camps and eventually the beginning of the regular season until a deal is struck with the NHL Player's Association.

It sounds like it's going to be a long wait.

``If you want my honest opinion, I don't think we're going to be starting the season,'' said Colorado Avalanche captain Joe Sakic. ``To me it just looks like (NHL commissioner) Gary Bettman doesn't want to start unless he gets everything he wants, so I don't expect hockey.''

Bob Goodenow, executive director of the NHLPA, didn't blink and eye when apprised of Sakic's comment.

``As a negotiator I'm always optimistic but the circumstances as where we are today, no, I'm not optimistic given the state of what we're hearing from the other side,'' Goodenow said Thursday at the NHLPA's Lester B. Pearson Award luncheon.

The two sides met in April and May but very little progress has been made. The NHLPA refuses to buy into any system that either resembles a salary cap or guarantees a percentage of revenues to the league's owners.

So the players are ready to fight.

``My life is a lot easier because of what guys have sacrificed in '94,'' Conn Smythe Trophy winner Brad Richards said Thursday night at the NHL awards, referring to the last lockout. ``I'm not going to be selfish and ruin our future. It's a union, and I'm one small piece of it.''

So with few people expecting NHL hockey next fall, players are looking at their options and there was a familiar theme among the nominees at the awards Thursday night.

``I'm looking at Europe right now,'' said Florida Panthers netminder Roberto Luongo. ``We'll make a decision in time but I can't go a whole season without playing hockey, that's for sure.''

A report in Russia on Thursday had Detroit Red Wings star centre Pavel Datsyuk already signing a contract with a Russian League club.

Richards, like Luongo, said he would likely play in the Swiss League if it comes to that.

``I just want to be prepared,'' Richards said. ``I don't want to be sitting at home in P.E.I. or Florida doing nothing. I'd rather be playing.

``There's already some players on our team that have confirmations to play in Europe. About seven or eight European players on our team have already looked into it.''

Teammate Martin St. Louis may follow Richards to Europe.

``I have thought about that, but at this point I'm going to wait and see how I feel after the World Cup,'' St. Louis said at the NHL Awards. ``This has been a lot of hockey for my body over the last year, so I just want to see how I feel.''

The major stumbling block is that nearly all of the NHLers looking to sign in Europe will want to insist on some form of opt-out clause so that if the NHL season does finally get going, they can return to their NHL clubs.

``That would definitely be something I would have to consider and put in any contract I'd sign because when the best league in the world gets going again, you want to make sure you're able to join up again,'' St. Louis said.

That's fine and dandy but European clubs also don't want to be left stranded with depleted rosters in the middle of their seasons. They don't have minor-league affiliates and can't summon up players.

``I think European teams would prefer signing guys for the whole year,'' said Ottawa Senators defenceman Zdeno Chara, who is also thinking of playing in Europe. ``In Europe, some clubs can only sign five foreign players and dress four of them.

``If there's no lockout and guys leave that would devastate European teams.''

But few of the star players questioned Thursday night could see themselves committing to one year in Europe.

``Yeah, that's the issue right now,'' said Luongo, who sounded like he's given the idea more than a little thought. ``Obviously if the lockout is ended and we start the season, it would be nice to come back.

``I don't want to commit to a whole year and then the season starts and not be able to come back.''

Rookie netminder Andrew Raycroft of the Boston Bruins said that was a big issue for him.

``If you have to go over there, it's a pretty large commitment,'' he said. ``If the NHL gets going again, most guys don't want to be in Europe, it gives other guys an opportunity to take your NHL job.''

Europe's not for everyone. Star defenceman Scott Niedermayer of the New Jersey Devils will give it a pass.

``I thought about it but we've played a lot of hockey in New Jersey over the last few years so if there is some time off, I'll use it to my advantage, get more rest and spend some time with my family,'' said Niedermayer.

San Jose Sharks centre Alyn McCauley also won't go to Europe.

``If need be, I'll take some courses and increase my brain a little bit,'' he said.

Calgary Flames superstar Jarome Iginla hopes he doesn't even have to think about needing a place to play next fall.

``I'm still a wishful thinker,'' he said. ``I know the news isn't positive right now. But contract negotiations happen to players and it takes time and then they get it done late, that's my hope.''

[talkingcanes]

``My life is a lot easier because of what guys have sacrificed in '94,'' Conn Smythe Trophy winner Brad Richards said Thursday night at the NHL awards, referring to the last lockout. ``I'm not going to be selfish and ruin our future. It's a union, and I'm one small piece of it.''

guess Brad and I have a different definition of sacrifice :roll:

if you don't do everything you can to try and see that hockey doesn't have another stoppage, then selfish is exactly what you and the rest of your peers (and the owners) are, Brad.

want to ruin your future? then have a really long strike. refuse to negotiate. ruin the league. (this applies to every idiot player and every idiot owner who think there is enough good will left for the NHL to do this again. even baseball learned it's lesson.)

/end of rant for now

[talkingcanes]

``My life is a lot easier because of what guys have sacrificed in '94,'' Conn Smythe Trophy winner Brad Richards said Thursday night at the NHL awards, referring to the last lockout. ``I'm not going to be selfish and ruin our future. It's a union, and I'm one small piece of it.''

guess Brad and I have a different definition of sacrifice :roll:

if you don't do everything you can to try and see that hockey doesn't have another stoppage, then selfish is exactly what you and the rest of your peers (and the owners) are, Brad.

want to ruin your future? then have a really long strike. refuse to negotiate. ruin the league. (this applies to every idiot player and every idiot owner who think there is enough good will left for the NHL to do this again. even baseball learned it's lesson.)

/end of rant for now

[talkingcanes]

``My life is a lot easier because of what guys have sacrificed in '94,'' Conn Smythe Trophy winner Brad Richards said Thursday night at the NHL awards, referring to the last lockout. ``I'm not going to be selfish and ruin our future. It's a union, and I'm one small piece of it.''

guess Brad and I have a different definition of sacrifice :roll:

if you don't do everything you can to try and see that hockey doesn't have another stoppage, then selfish is exactly what you and the rest of your peers (and the owners) are, Brad.

want to ruin your future? then have a really long strike. refuse to negotiate. ruin the league. (this applies to every idiot player and every idiot owner who think there is enough good will left for the NHL to do this again. even baseball learned it's lesson.)

/end of rant for now

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I've seen several other teams start to re-sign some of their players in the past few days (Colorado re-signed 4 guys, Columbus has re-signed someone, Phoenix did). I guess not everyone is waiting around to see how the CBA looks before they ink some players. Wonder what the Canes will do.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I've seen several other teams start to re-sign some of their players in the past few days (Colorado re-signed 4 guys, Columbus has re-signed someone, Phoenix did). I guess not everyone is waiting around to see how the CBA looks before they ink some players. Wonder what the Canes will do.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

I've seen several other teams start to re-sign some of their players in the past few days (Colorado re-signed 4 guys, Columbus has re-signed someone, Phoenix did). I guess not everyone is waiting around to see how the CBA looks before they ink some players. Wonder what the Canes will do.

[Shell]

Somehow I blocked out that we are STILL paying Sandis Ozolinsh!! $1 million next year! :mad:

Coates prepares to make his moves
By GRANT KERR
Friday, June 11, 2004

Al Coates should be afforded at least a modicum of credit for the playoff success of the Calgary Flames, considering the trades he made as Flames general manager secured cornerstone players Jarome Iginla and Robyn Regehr.

Coates is now the vice-president of business operations and interim general manager for the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim and hopes to be given the opportunity to manage the Mighty Ducks into the Stanley Cup playoffs again.

He became the interim GM after the sudden departure of Bryan Murray this week to become coach of the Ottawa Senators.
Coates is examining the payroll of the Ducks so he can have some suggestions when club president Jay Rasulo and senior financial analyst Jim Hunt return from meetings in Paris to deal with the Anaheim situation. Coates expects to have the interim label removed from his title in the next week or so.
The Ducks, who missed the National Hockey League playoffs this spring after finishing 12th in the Western Conference, operated with the eighth largest payroll in the league last season. They had about $54-million (all figures U.S.) in base salaries, led by the $10-million paid to Sergei Fedorov.

Any new GM would be asked to lower costs in the belief there will be reduced salaries under a collective labour agreement that will probably be reshaped by the league and the NHL Players' Association when the current arrangement ends on Sept. 15.

Lower operating costs might make the Ducks an attractive asset when their owner, the Walt Disney Co., unload the franchise as planned. Coates, 58, from Listowel, Ont., is examining possible trades and looking at salaries.

"There's different ways on doing this, providing you can find a trading partner these days," Coates said yesterday from Anaheim. "The majority of the teams are looking at a new world out there and very cautious about what they take on, at least until we know if we're playing or not.
"Then you have the avenue of your qualifying offers, whether you tender somebody a qualifying offer or not. We have several players we must make decisions on."

The Ducks can exercise the option on defenceman Keith Carney for $2.7-million or let him become an unrestricted free agent on July 1. Anaheim has 14 players under contract for next season and will get $1-million from the Carolina Hurricanes to cover some of the $5.5-million salary of defenceman Sandis Ozolinsh.

Ozolinsh missed 46 games last season, most of them because of an injury to his left shoulder. He is a key to the offence, running the power play from the point. Fedorov had only 65 points in his first season with the Ducks and may have had more had talented Ozolinsh been healthy the entire season.

Star netminder Jean-Sébastien Giguère, a player Coates also acquired for Calgary when he was GM of the Flames from 1995 to 2000, is under contract to the Ducks and considered a fixture for seasons to come. Developing forwards Joffrey Lupul and Stanislav Chistov also are under contract and considered building blocks for the future.

[Shell]

Somehow I blocked out that we are STILL paying Sandis Ozolinsh!! $1 million next year! :mad:

Coates prepares to make his moves
By GRANT KERR
Friday, June 11, 2004

Al Coates should be afforded at least a modicum of credit for the playoff success of the Calgary Flames, considering the trades he made as Flames general manager secured cornerstone players Jarome Iginla and Robyn Regehr.

Coates is now the vice-president of business operations and interim general manager for the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim and hopes to be given the opportunity to manage the Mighty Ducks into the Stanley Cup playoffs again.

He became the interim GM after the sudden departure of Bryan Murray this week to become coach of the Ottawa Senators.
Coates is examining the payroll of the Ducks so he can have some suggestions when club president Jay Rasulo and senior financial analyst Jim Hunt return from meetings in Paris to deal with the Anaheim situation. Coates expects to have the interim label removed from his title in the next week or so.
The Ducks, who missed the National Hockey League playoffs this spring after finishing 12th in the Western Conference, operated with the eighth largest payroll in the league last season. They had about $54-million (all figures U.S.) in base salaries, led by the $10-million paid to Sergei Fedorov.

Any new GM would be asked to lower costs in the belief there will be reduced salaries under a collective labour agreement that will probably be reshaped by the league and the NHL Players' Association when the current arrangement ends on Sept. 15.

Lower operating costs might make the Ducks an attractive asset when their owner, the Walt Disney Co., unload the franchise as planned. Coates, 58, from Listowel, Ont., is examining possible trades and looking at salaries.

"There's different ways on doing this, providing you can find a trading partner these days," Coates said yesterday from Anaheim. "The majority of the teams are looking at a new world out there and very cautious about what they take on, at least until we know if we're playing or not.
"Then you have the avenue of your qualifying offers, whether you tender somebody a qualifying offer or not. We have several players we must make decisions on."

The Ducks can exercise the option on defenceman Keith Carney for $2.7-million or let him become an unrestricted free agent on July 1. Anaheim has 14 players under contract for next season and will get $1-million from the Carolina Hurricanes to cover some of the $5.5-million salary of defenceman Sandis Ozolinsh.

Ozolinsh missed 46 games last season, most of them because of an injury to his left shoulder. He is a key to the offence, running the power play from the point. Fedorov had only 65 points in his first season with the Ducks and may have had more had talented Ozolinsh been healthy the entire season.

Star netminder Jean-Sébastien Giguère, a player Coates also acquired for Calgary when he was GM of the Flames from 1995 to 2000, is under contract to the Ducks and considered a fixture for seasons to come. Developing forwards Joffrey Lupul and Stanislav Chistov also are under contract and considered building blocks for the future.

[Shell]

Somehow I blocked out that we are STILL paying Sandis Ozolinsh!! $1 million next year! :mad:

Coates prepares to make his moves
By GRANT KERR
Friday, June 11, 2004

Al Coates should be afforded at least a modicum of credit for the playoff success of the Calgary Flames, considering the trades he made as Flames general manager secured cornerstone players Jarome Iginla and Robyn Regehr.

Coates is now the vice-president of business operations and interim general manager for the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim and hopes to be given the opportunity to manage the Mighty Ducks into the Stanley Cup playoffs again.

He became the interim GM after the sudden departure of Bryan Murray this week to become coach of the Ottawa Senators.
Coates is examining the payroll of the Ducks so he can have some suggestions when club president Jay Rasulo and senior financial analyst Jim Hunt return from meetings in Paris to deal with the Anaheim situation. Coates expects to have the interim label removed from his title in the next week or so.
The Ducks, who missed the National Hockey League playoffs this spring after finishing 12th in the Western Conference, operated with the eighth largest payroll in the league last season. They had about $54-million (all figures U.S.) in base salaries, led by the $10-million paid to Sergei Fedorov.

Any new GM would be asked to lower costs in the belief there will be reduced salaries under a collective labour agreement that will probably be reshaped by the league and the NHL Players' Association when the current arrangement ends on Sept. 15.

Lower operating costs might make the Ducks an attractive asset when their owner, the Walt Disney Co., unload the franchise as planned. Coates, 58, from Listowel, Ont., is examining possible trades and looking at salaries.

"There's different ways on doing this, providing you can find a trading partner these days," Coates said yesterday from Anaheim. "The majority of the teams are looking at a new world out there and very cautious about what they take on, at least until we know if we're playing or not.
"Then you have the avenue of your qualifying offers, whether you tender somebody a qualifying offer or not. We have several players we must make decisions on."

The Ducks can exercise the option on defenceman Keith Carney for $2.7-million or let him become an unrestricted free agent on July 1. Anaheim has 14 players under contract for next season and will get $1-million from the Carolina Hurricanes to cover some of the $5.5-million salary of defenceman Sandis Ozolinsh.

Ozolinsh missed 46 games last season, most of them because of an injury to his left shoulder. He is a key to the offence, running the power play from the point. Fedorov had only 65 points in his first season with the Ducks and may have had more had talented Ozolinsh been healthy the entire season.

Star netminder Jean-Sébastien Giguère, a player Coates also acquired for Calgary when he was GM of the Flames from 1995 to 2000, is under contract to the Ducks and considered a fixture for seasons to come. Developing forwards Joffrey Lupul and Stanislav Chistov also are under contract and considered building blocks for the future.

[talkingcanes]

they are all (players and owners) going to be one big pile of donkeys about all this. well, good for them. make your plans, shut down the league, don't talk, don't negotiate, and then tell us with a straight face how you love hockey so much you'd play for free :mad: :roll:

Players meet, still won't accept cap

Canadian Press
6/11/2004

TORONTO (CP) - The only cracks in the NHL Players' Association were in the sandwiches set out during a buffet luncheon as North American members wound up two days of annual meetings Friday.

With the collective bargaining agreement with the league to expire Sept. 15, talk of a possible lockout by the 30 club owners was a main topic of conversation, and it was obvious that solidarity was intact.

There were 167 players at the Royal York Hotel sessions, and another 75 are expected when European players gather next month. These were the first full association meetings since it made proposals to the NHL last Oct. 1.

``We broke off into small groups so we could have some more in-depth discussion, in groups of 10 to 12 guys,'' association president Trevor Linden, the Vancouver Canucks forward, said in an interview in describing the meetings. ``I had a lot of guys say they were surprised at how much we offered Oct. 1.

``They were surprised we went ahead and offered a five-per-cent rollback (in salaries) and changes to the entry-level (salaries) and a luxury tax. There were a lot of guys who were concerned with how far we went and they certainly feel we've really tried hard to have a negotiation.''

The players are going to stick to their guns, he said.

``Any time you deal with 700 players, there are a lot of different opinions but hockey players showed in '94 they'll stick together,'' said Linden. ``Hockey players have shown they're fair, too, if there is a solution in the middle somewhere but they're willing to fight for what they believe in.''

A lockout in 1994-95 reduced the number of games played to 48 from the usual 82. The worry this time is that at least a full season could be lost.

``We have listened to the issues they have and we feel we have addressed their issues and have made an attempt to bridge the gap,'' Linden said of the NHL's position. ``We've worked pretty hard at doing that.

``We feel like we've taken their issues and dealt with them and put in a plan that would solve the problems. But we are not going to talk about a hard cap system, and that's what we've kept getting shown to us.''

Linden said his organization is serious about fighting a had salary cap system.

``The players are prepared to talk about a market-based system,'' said Linden. ``That's what we're committed to. I think, definitely, guys are very adamant about what we believe in.''

Still, the membership is frustrated, he said. No talks with the NHL are scheduled at this time.

``We've worked hard at it but the fact is this isn't a negotiation right now,'' said Linden. ``It's basically a take-it-or-leave-it situation.''

Linden and Ted Saskin, senior NHLPA director for business affairs and licensing, wouldn't go into specifics about their proposed luxury tax.

``I'm not going to get into details but they had an issue with five or six teams that were, in their mind, spending too much money and we put forth a luxury tax system that would take funds from teams that were in that category and funnel that money back to the lower-revenue teams,'' said Linden. ``Our system of revenue sharing and our luxury tax system would generate close to $200 million (US) that would have been dispersed to lower-revenue teams and would have made a huge difference to those teams, and it was at a level that was probably a lot lower than you think.''

A report done for the league during the winter stated combined losses for teams were $273 million US for a single season.

Had the NHLPA proposal been accepted, ``They would have seen a significant change in their bottom line. We offered to do that a year before we had to. They would have had a year of effect already but we didn't get our proposal through. We were handed one piece of paper so the message was pretty clear.''

Added Saskin: ``It was very clear at the end of the day that they're far too committed to only one option and one solution in their mind, which is the cap, and that is not something that is going to lead to an agreement.''

Meanwhile, players are beginning to look to Europe or a reborn World Hockey Association, which has plans to begin operations this year, as possible outlets to continue playing if the NHL is shut down.

``Guys are more educated, more informed,'' said Linden. ``Guys are making plans.

``In '94, I made the mistake of staying by the phone. This time, I think guys will get on with their lives, whether that's playing in Europe, or playing in the WHA, being a full-time dad or going back to school or whatever. I think guys will be more prepared than they were in '94.''

Neither side is bending in what the NHLPA membership views as a one-issue stalemate.

``Certainly the NHL has positioned itself as such because they're not prepared to talk about anything other than a salary cap,'' said Saskin. ``They've made it a single issue.

``We're open to discussing a lot of different ways that you can address their stated concerns but it has to be in the context of the marketplace. For us, it's a single issue only because they've made the single issue the salary cap, which is a non-starter for us.''

Bill Daly, executive vice-president and chief legal officer of the NHL, reacted to the comments by saying the NHLPA ``has again mischaracterized the negotiation process and the proposals that were offered on both sides.''

``Self-serving and misleading rhetoric will not further the process and will not address the problems confronting the league,'' Daly said from New York in an interview.

He accused the association of engaging in ``a campaign of misinformation regarding both the history of these negotiations and the current state of the league.''

The league first approached the association five years ago suggesting there were serious economic problems and that modifications were urgently needed because the problems would only worsen if not dealt with, said Daly.

``So, when I hear that the league is not willing to negotiate, and that it's a take-it-or-leave-it situation, it is obvious to me the union is not telling people the full story.''

If the NHLPA is so confident the adjustments they proposed will work, they should guarantee the results, he said.

``That's what we asked them to do and they refused,'' said Daly. ``I guess guarantees are only acceptable when they are used to guarantee player compensation.''

What the association calls a salary cap, the NHL calls a partnership.

``I wish they would explain to me, just once, why that's a bad thing,'' said Daly. ``Why doesn't that work for them?''

A system that entitles the players to 75 per cent of the revenue the industry generates just doesn't work, Daly added.

``The union is the party responsible for making this a one-issue negotiation. We've offered a variety of options for cost certainty and they have accepted none. All they have offered are Band-Aid changes to the status quo - a system that is so seriously flawed it can no longer be maintained. That's not what I call a willingness to negotiate.''

[talkingcanes]

they are all (players and owners) going to be one big pile of donkeys about all this. well, good for them. make your plans, shut down the league, don't talk, don't negotiate, and then tell us with a straight face how you love hockey so much you'd play for free :mad: :roll:

Players meet, still won't accept cap

Canadian Press
6/11/2004

TORONTO (CP) - The only cracks in the NHL Players' Association were in the sandwiches set out during a buffet luncheon as North American members wound up two days of annual meetings Friday.

With the collective bargaining agreement with the league to expire Sept. 15, talk of a possible lockout by the 30 club owners was a main topic of conversation, and it was obvious that solidarity was intact.

There were 167 players at the Royal York Hotel sessions, and another 75 are expected when European players gather next month. These were the first full association meetings since it made proposals to the NHL last Oct. 1.

``We broke off into small groups so we could have some more in-depth discussion, in groups of 10 to 12 guys,'' association president Trevor Linden, the Vancouver Canucks forward, said in an interview in describing the meetings. ``I had a lot of guys say they were surprised at how much we offered Oct. 1.

``They were surprised we went ahead and offered a five-per-cent rollback (in salaries) and changes to the entry-level (salaries) and a luxury tax. There were a lot of guys who were concerned with how far we went and they certainly feel we've really tried hard to have a negotiation.''

The players are going to stick to their guns, he said.

``Any time you deal with 700 players, there are a lot of different opinions but hockey players showed in '94 they'll stick together,'' said Linden. ``Hockey players have shown they're fair, too, if there is a solution in the middle somewhere but they're willing to fight for what they believe in.''

A lockout in 1994-95 reduced the number of games played to 48 from the usual 82. The worry this time is that at least a full season could be lost.

``We have listened to the issues they have and we feel we have addressed their issues and have made an attempt to bridge the gap,'' Linden said of the NHL's position. ``We've worked pretty hard at doing that.

``We feel like we've taken their issues and dealt with them and put in a plan that would solve the problems. But we are not going to talk about a hard cap system, and that's what we've kept getting shown to us.''

Linden said his organization is serious about fighting a had salary cap system.

``The players are prepared to talk about a market-based system,'' said Linden. ``That's what we're committed to. I think, definitely, guys are very adamant about what we believe in.''

Still, the membership is frustrated, he said. No talks with the NHL are scheduled at this time.

``We've worked hard at it but the fact is this isn't a negotiation right now,'' said Linden. ``It's basically a take-it-or-leave-it situation.''

Linden and Ted Saskin, senior NHLPA director for business affairs and licensing, wouldn't go into specifics about their proposed luxury tax.

``I'm not going to get into details but they had an issue with five or six teams that were, in their mind, spending too much money and we put forth a luxury tax system that would take funds from teams that were in that category and funnel that money back to the lower-revenue teams,'' said Linden. ``Our system of revenue sharing and our luxury tax system would generate close to $200 million (US) that would have been dispersed to lower-revenue teams and would have made a huge difference to those teams, and it was at a level that was probably a lot lower than you think.''

A report done for the league during the winter stated combined losses for teams were $273 million US for a single season.

Had the NHLPA proposal been accepted, ``They would have seen a significant change in their bottom line. We offered to do that a year before we had to. They would have had a year of effect already but we didn't get our proposal through. We were handed one piece of paper so the message was pretty clear.''

Added Saskin: ``It was very clear at the end of the day that they're far too committed to only one option and one solution in their mind, which is the cap, and that is not something that is going to lead to an agreement.''

Meanwhile, players are beginning to look to Europe or a reborn World Hockey Association, which has plans to begin operations this year, as possible outlets to continue playing if the NHL is shut down.

``Guys are more educated, more informed,'' said Linden. ``Guys are making plans.

``In '94, I made the mistake of staying by the phone. This time, I think guys will get on with their lives, whether that's playing in Europe, or playing in the WHA, being a full-time dad or going back to school or whatever. I think guys will be more prepared than they were in '94.''

Neither side is bending in what the NHLPA membership views as a one-issue stalemate.

``Certainly the NHL has positioned itself as such because they're not prepared to talk about anything other than a salary cap,'' said Saskin. ``They've made it a single issue.

``We're open to discussing a lot of different ways that you can address their stated concerns but it has to be in the context of the marketplace. For us, it's a single issue only because they've made the single issue the salary cap, which is a non-starter for us.''

Bill Daly, executive vice-president and chief legal officer of the NHL, reacted to the comments by saying the NHLPA ``has again mischaracterized the negotiation process and the proposals that were offered on both sides.''

``Self-serving and misleading rhetoric will not further the process and will not address the problems confronting the league,'' Daly said from New York in an interview.

He accused the association of engaging in ``a campaign of misinformation regarding both the history of these negotiations and the current state of the league.''

The league first approached the association five years ago suggesting there were serious economic problems and that modifications were urgently needed because the problems would only worsen if not dealt with, said Daly.

``So, when I hear that the league is not willing to negotiate, and that it's a take-it-or-leave-it situation, it is obvious to me the union is not telling people the full story.''

If the NHLPA is so confident the adjustments they proposed will work, they should guarantee the results, he said.

``That's what we asked them to do and they refused,'' said Daly. ``I guess guarantees are only acceptable when they are used to guarantee player compensation.''

What the association calls a salary cap, the NHL calls a partnership.

``I wish they would explain to me, just once, why that's a bad thing,'' said Daly. ``Why doesn't that work for them?''

A system that entitles the players to 75 per cent of the revenue the industry generates just doesn't work, Daly added.

``The union is the party responsible for making this a one-issue negotiation. We've offered a variety of options for cost certainty and they have accepted none. All they have offered are Band-Aid changes to the status quo - a system that is so seriously flawed it can no longer be maintained. That's not what I call a willingness to negotiate.''

[talkingcanes]

they are all (players and owners) going to be one big pile of donkeys about all this. well, good for them. make your plans, shut down the league, don't talk, don't negotiate, and then tell us with a straight face how you love hockey so much you'd play for free :mad: :roll:

Players meet, still won't accept cap

Canadian Press
6/11/2004

TORONTO (CP) - The only cracks in the NHL Players' Association were in the sandwiches set out during a buffet luncheon as North American members wound up two days of annual meetings Friday.

With the collective bargaining agreement with the league to expire Sept. 15, talk of a possible lockout by the 30 club owners was a main topic of conversation, and it was obvious that solidarity was intact.

There were 167 players at the Royal York Hotel sessions, and another 75 are expected when European players gather next month. These were the first full association meetings since it made proposals to the NHL last Oct. 1.

``We broke off into small groups so we could have some more in-depth discussion, in groups of 10 to 12 guys,'' association president Trevor Linden, the Vancouver Canucks forward, said in an interview in describing the meetings. ``I had a lot of guys say they were surprised at how much we offered Oct. 1.

``They were surprised we went ahead and offered a five-per-cent rollback (in salaries) and changes to the entry-level (salaries) and a luxury tax. There were a lot of guys who were concerned with how far we went and they certainly feel we've really tried hard to have a negotiation.''

The players are going to stick to their guns, he said.

``Any time you deal with 700 players, there are a lot of different opinions but hockey players showed in '94 they'll stick together,'' said Linden. ``Hockey players have shown they're fair, too, if there is a solution in the middle somewhere but they're willing to fight for what they believe in.''

A lockout in 1994-95 reduced the number of games played to 48 from the usual 82. The worry this time is that at least a full season could be lost.

``We have listened to the issues they have and we feel we have addressed their issues and have made an attempt to bridge the gap,'' Linden said of the NHL's position. ``We've worked pretty hard at doing that.

``We feel like we've taken their issues and dealt with them and put in a plan that would solve the problems. But we are not going to talk about a hard cap system, and that's what we've kept getting shown to us.''

Linden said his organization is serious about fighting a had salary cap system.

``The players are prepared to talk about a market-based system,'' said Linden. ``That's what we're committed to. I think, definitely, guys are very adamant about what we believe in.''

Still, the membership is frustrated, he said. No talks with the NHL are scheduled at this time.

``We've worked hard at it but the fact is this isn't a negotiation right now,'' said Linden. ``It's basically a take-it-or-leave-it situation.''

Linden and Ted Saskin, senior NHLPA director for business affairs and licensing, wouldn't go into specifics about their proposed luxury tax.

``I'm not going to get into details but they had an issue with five or six teams that were, in their mind, spending too much money and we put forth a luxury tax system that would take funds from teams that were in that category and funnel that money back to the lower-revenue teams,'' said Linden. ``Our system of revenue sharing and our luxury tax system would generate close to $200 million (US) that would have been dispersed to lower-revenue teams and would have made a huge difference to those teams, and it was at a level that was probably a lot lower than you think.''

A report done for the league during the winter stated combined losses for teams were $273 million US for a single season.

Had the NHLPA proposal been accepted, ``They would have seen a significant change in their bottom line. We offered to do that a year before we had to. They would have had a year of effect already but we didn't get our proposal through. We were handed one piece of paper so the message was pretty clear.''

Added Saskin: ``It was very clear at the end of the day that they're far too committed to only one option and one solution in their mind, which is the cap, and that is not something that is going to lead to an agreement.''

Meanwhile, players are beginning to look to Europe or a reborn World Hockey Association, which has plans to begin operations this year, as possible outlets to continue playing if the NHL is shut down.

``Guys are more educated, more informed,'' said Linden. ``Guys are making plans.

``In '94, I made the mistake of staying by the phone. This time, I think guys will get on with their lives, whether that's playing in Europe, or playing in the WHA, being a full-time dad or going back to school or whatever. I think guys will be more prepared than they were in '94.''

Neither side is bending in what the NHLPA membership views as a one-issue stalemate.

``Certainly the NHL has positioned itself as such because they're not prepared to talk about anything other than a salary cap,'' said Saskin. ``They've made it a single issue.

``We're open to discussing a lot of different ways that you can address their stated concerns but it has to be in the context of the marketplace. For us, it's a single issue only because they've made the single issue the salary cap, which is a non-starter for us.''

Bill Daly, executive vice-president and chief legal officer of the NHL, reacted to the comments by saying the NHLPA ``has again mischaracterized the negotiation process and the proposals that were offered on both sides.''

``Self-serving and misleading rhetoric will not further the process and will not address the problems confronting the league,'' Daly said from New York in an interview.

He accused the association of engaging in ``a campaign of misinformation regarding both the history of these negotiations and the current state of the league.''

The league first approached the association five years ago suggesting there were serious economic problems and that modifications were urgently needed because the problems would only worsen if not dealt with, said Daly.

``So, when I hear that the league is not willing to negotiate, and that it's a take-it-or-leave-it situation, it is obvious to me the union is not telling people the full story.''

If the NHLPA is so confident the adjustments they proposed will work, they should guarantee the results, he said.

``That's what we asked them to do and they refused,'' said Daly. ``I guess guarantees are only acceptable when they are used to guarantee player compensation.''

What the association calls a salary cap, the NHL calls a partnership.

``I wish they would explain to me, just once, why that's a bad thing,'' said Daly. ``Why doesn't that work for them?''

A system that entitles the players to 75 per cent of the revenue the industry generates just doesn't work, Daly added.

``The union is the party responsible for making this a one-issue negotiation. We've offered a variety of options for cost certainty and they have accepted none. All they have offered are Band-Aid changes to the status quo - a system that is so seriously flawed it can no longer be maintained. That's not what I call a willingness to negotiate.''

[nccanes]

Copying from a different thread, now locked:

think as fans we need to rally and flood NHL offices with mail expressing our concerns about the CBA. This all sounds cliche im sure but guys this is it... hockey in this state could end (phoenix, ottawa and sabres could fold too)if a whole year passes by. I for one dont want that. We cant blast them or they wont listen, but I have a feeling they are forgetting about us the fans. It wouldnt hurt to send stuff to players high up in the NHLPA. Isnt one of our own up there? (hill or wesley maybe??). Im sure all of you thing im a dumb ass for posting this but a work stoppage is not in the best interests of us, the fans.

[nccanes]

Copying from a different thread, now locked:

think as fans we need to rally and flood NHL offices with mail expressing our concerns about the CBA. This all sounds cliche im sure but guys this is it... hockey in this state could end (phoenix, ottawa and sabres could fold too)if a whole year passes by. I for one dont want that. We cant blast them or they wont listen, but I have a feeling they are forgetting about us the fans. It wouldnt hurt to send stuff to players high up in the NHLPA. Isnt one of our own up there? (hill or wesley maybe??). Im sure all of you thing im a dumb ass for posting this but a work stoppage is not in the best interests of us, the fans.

[nccanes]

Copying from a different thread, now locked:

think as fans we need to rally and flood NHL offices with mail expressing our concerns about the CBA. This all sounds cliche im sure but guys this is it... hockey in this state could end (phoenix, ottawa and sabres could fold too)if a whole year passes by. I for one dont want that. We cant blast them or they wont listen, but I have a feeling they are forgetting about us the fans. It wouldnt hurt to send stuff to players high up in the NHLPA. Isnt one of our own up there? (hill or wesley maybe??). Im sure all of you thing im a dumb ass for posting this but a work stoppage is not in the best interests of us, the fans.

[nccanes]

As you can see Puck It, we've got 7 pages of discussion about the CBA expiration, so no one here is going to think you are a dumb ass. Your suggestions are good.

I know Erik Cole is one of the Canes player reps and perhaps Weekes? I'm forgetting now.

[nccanes]

As you can see Puck It, we've got 7 pages of discussion about the CBA expiration, so no one here is going to think you are a dumb ass. Your suggestions are good.

I know Erik Cole is one of the Canes player reps and perhaps Weekes? I'm forgetting now.

[nccanes]

As you can see Puck It, we've got 7 pages of discussion about the CBA expiration, so no one here is going to think you are a dumb ass. Your suggestions are good.

I know Erik Cole is one of the Canes player reps and perhaps Weekes? I'm forgetting now.

[talkingcanes]

As you can see Puck It, we've got 7 pages of discussion about the CBA expiration, so no one here is going to think you are a dumb ass. Your suggestions are good.

I know Erik Cole is one of the Canes player reps and perhaps Weekes? I'm forgetting now.

isn't Craig Adams a Canes' rep?

[talkingcanes]

As you can see Puck It, we've got 7 pages of discussion about the CBA expiration, so no one here is going to think you are a dumb ass. Your suggestions are good.

I know Erik Cole is one of the Canes player reps and perhaps Weekes? I'm forgetting now.

isn't Craig Adams a Canes' rep?

[talkingcanes]

As you can see Puck It, we've got 7 pages of discussion about the CBA expiration, so no one here is going to think you are a dumb ass. Your suggestions are good.

I know Erik Cole is one of the Canes player reps and perhaps Weekes? I'm forgetting now.

isn't Craig Adams a Canes' rep?

[Tatfever]

While I am a huge NHL fan, I find myself now worrying to much about the CBA. Not because it won't happen(it will), but more because I will still be watching hockey with the Lock Monsters.
I feel sorry for fans that will not be able to watch hockey regularily, but I for one am looking forward to October.

[Tatfever]

While I am a huge NHL fan, I find myself now worrying to much about the CBA. Not because it won't happen(it will), but more because I will still be watching hockey with the Lock Monsters.
I feel sorry for fans that will not be able to watch hockey regularily, but I for one am looking forward to October.

[Tatfever]

While I am a huge NHL fan, I find myself now worrying to much about the CBA. Not because it won't happen(it will), but more because I will still be watching hockey with the Lock Monsters.
I feel sorry for fans that will not be able to watch hockey regularily, but I for one am looking forward to October.

[Captain Slack]

Luckily, there's an ECHL team in Greensboro. If there's a strike, I say we all make a trek over there to watch the Generals play.

[Captain Slack]

Luckily, there's an ECHL team in Greensboro. If there's a strike, I say we all make a trek over there to watch the Generals play.

[Captain Slack]

Luckily, there's an ECHL team in Greensboro. If there's a strike, I say we all make a trek over there to watch the Generals play.

[puck_it]

ive drafted a letter to bettman if anybody wants to read it let me know... or actually have a bit youd like to add. just keep the fingers crossed

[puck_it]

ive drafted a letter to bettman if anybody wants to read it let me know... or actually have a bit youd like to add. just keep the fingers crossed

[puck_it]

ive drafted a letter to bettman if anybody wants to read it let me know... or actually have a bit youd like to add. just keep the fingers crossed

[Captain Slack]

Go ahead and post it. I think we'd all like to read it.

[Captain Slack]

Go ahead and post it. I think we'd all like to read it.

[Captain Slack]

Go ahead and post it. I think we'd all like to read it.

[nccanes]

I wonder if the RBC center would allow a sign (or signs) to be hung from the upper level ledge that said "NO LOCKOUT" (or something similar)during the draft.

[nccanes]

I wonder if the RBC center would allow a sign (or signs) to be hung from the upper level ledge that said "NO LOCKOUT" (or something similar)during the draft.

[nccanes]

I wonder if the RBC center would allow a sign (or signs) to be hung from the upper level ledge that said "NO LOCKOUT" (or something similar)during the draft.

[puck_it]

hmmwell i would post it but uh yeah im at an internship at NCSU and it on my home computer... ill have it the week after the draft.

[puck_it]

hmmwell i would post it but uh yeah im at an internship at NCSU and it on my home computer... ill have it the week after the draft.

[puck_it]

hmmwell i would post it but uh yeah im at an internship at NCSU and it on my home computer... ill have it the week after the draft.

[talkingcanes]

I wonder if the RBC center would allow a sign (or signs) to be hung from the upper level ledge that said "NO LOCKOUT" (or something similar)during the draft.

just my guess, but no. whether it's the RBC Center or the NHL's decision, I have no idea, but I'd bet it would be removed or at least the camera would avoid it like the plague. then again, who knows.

[talkingcanes]

I wonder if the RBC center would allow a sign (or signs) to be hung from the upper level ledge that said "NO LOCKOUT" (or something similar)during the draft.

just my guess, but no. whether it's the RBC Center or the NHL's decision, I have no idea, but I'd bet it would be removed or at least the camera would avoid it like the plague. then again, who knows.

[talkingcanes]

I wonder if the RBC center would allow a sign (or signs) to be hung from the upper level ledge that said "NO LOCKOUT" (or something similar)during the draft.

just my guess, but no. whether it's the RBC Center or the NHL's decision, I have no idea, but I'd bet it would be removed or at least the camera would avoid it like the plague. then again, who knows.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Added Saskin: ``It was very clear at the end of the day that they're far too committed to only one option and one solution in their mind, which is the cap, and that is not something that is going to lead to an agreement.''

----------------------------------------------------------------

Neither side is bending in what the NHLPA membership views as a one-issue stalemate.

``Certainly the NHL has positioned itself as such because they're not prepared to talk about anything other than a salary cap,'' said Saskin. ``They've made it a single issue.

``We're open to discussing a lot of different ways that you can address their stated concerns but it has to be in the context of the marketplace. For us, it's a single issue only because they've made the single issue the salary cap, which is a non-starter for us.''

------------------------------------------------------------------


``So, when I hear that the league is not willing to negotiate, and that it's a take-it-or-leave-it situation, it is obvious to me the union is not telling people the full story.''

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

``The union is the party responsible for making this a one-issue negotiation. We've offered a variety of options for cost certainty and they have accepted none. All they have offered are Band-Aid changes to the status quo - a system that is so seriously flawed it can no longer be maintained. That's not what I call a willingness to negotiate.''

:roll: Hello!! You are ALL being asses!! The players need to accept a negotiatied salary cap and the owners need to accept a negotiated revenue sharing plan. THAT my friends, would be compromise. NEITHER of you is willing to do that yet and it's clear to all of us fans. We aren't stupid!! Neither side's rhetoric is fooling anyone.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Added Saskin: ``It was very clear at the end of the day that they're far too committed to only one option and one solution in their mind, which is the cap, and that is not something that is going to lead to an agreement.''

----------------------------------------------------------------

Neither side is bending in what the NHLPA membership views as a one-issue stalemate.

``Certainly the NHL has positioned itself as such because they're not prepared to talk about anything other than a salary cap,'' said Saskin. ``They've made it a single issue.

``We're open to discussing a lot of different ways that you can address their stated concerns but it has to be in the context of the marketplace. For us, it's a single issue only because they've made the single issue the salary cap, which is a non-starter for us.''

------------------------------------------------------------------


``So, when I hear that the league is not willing to negotiate, and that it's a take-it-or-leave-it situation, it is obvious to me the union is not telling people the full story.''

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

``The union is the party responsible for making this a one-issue negotiation. We've offered a variety of options for cost certainty and they have accepted none. All they have offered are Band-Aid changes to the status quo - a system that is so seriously flawed it can no longer be maintained. That's not what I call a willingness to negotiate.''

:roll: Hello!! You are ALL being asses!! The players need to accept a negotiatied salary cap and the owners need to accept a negotiated revenue sharing plan. THAT my friends, would be compromise. NEITHER of you is willing to do that yet and it's clear to all of us fans. We aren't stupid!! Neither side's rhetoric is fooling anyone.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Added Saskin: ``It was very clear at the end of the day that they're far too committed to only one option and one solution in their mind, which is the cap, and that is not something that is going to lead to an agreement.''

----------------------------------------------------------------

Neither side is bending in what the NHLPA membership views as a one-issue stalemate.

``Certainly the NHL has positioned itself as such because they're not prepared to talk about anything other than a salary cap,'' said Saskin. ``They've made it a single issue.

``We're open to discussing a lot of different ways that you can address their stated concerns but it has to be in the context of the marketplace. For us, it's a single issue only because they've made the single issue the salary cap, which is a non-starter for us.''

------------------------------------------------------------------


``So, when I hear that the league is not willing to negotiate, and that it's a take-it-or-leave-it situation, it is obvious to me the union is not telling people the full story.''

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

``The union is the party responsible for making this a one-issue negotiation. We've offered a variety of options for cost certainty and they have accepted none. All they have offered are Band-Aid changes to the status quo - a system that is so seriously flawed it can no longer be maintained. That's not what I call a willingness to negotiate.''

:roll: Hello!! You are ALL being asses!! The players need to accept a negotiatied salary cap and the owners need to accept a negotiated revenue sharing plan. THAT my friends, would be compromise. NEITHER of you is willing to do that yet and it's clear to all of us fans. We aren't stupid!! Neither side's rhetoric is fooling anyone.

[nccanes]

Excellent point SHC. In all of the discussions (message boards and real conversations) that I've been party to have NEVER quoted one of these soundbites and said "see the players are 100% RIGHT - give them what they want" or "see the poor owners are 100% RIGHT - give them what they want". The soundbites are for whom? The general sports media and sports fan who doesn't really give a rip at all about the NHL? Those people might have a passing general interest from a current events standpoint, but will THEY be putting any pressure on the owners or players? No. Will they be the ones who would be at the games (or not)? No.

So that leaves the rest of us who are sick of reading this crap because we actually DO read it and KNOW who the people saying it are. I mean, ask any non-hockey , but sports fan what Bryan McCabe said about the players feelings toward a long lock out and they'll say "who?". The rest of us know he was a dumbass who made the players look stupid. So what did his comments do for the NHLPA?

Whew, sorry - just hadn't vented about the whole thing in awhile and your comment hit a point that seemed very valid to me. :beatup:

[nccanes]

Excellent point SHC. In all of the discussions (message boards and real conversations) that I've been party to have NEVER quoted one of these soundbites and said "see the players are 100% RIGHT - give them what they want" or "see the poor owners are 100% RIGHT - give them what they want". The soundbites are for whom? The general sports media and sports fan who doesn't really give a rip at all about the NHL? Those people might have a passing general interest from a current events standpoint, but will THEY be putting any pressure on the owners or players? No. Will they be the ones who would be at the games (or not)? No.

So that leaves the rest of us who are sick of reading this crap because we actually DO read it and KNOW who the people saying it are. I mean, ask any non-hockey , but sports fan what Bryan McCabe said about the players feelings toward a long lock out and they'll say "who?". The rest of us know he was a dumbass who made the players look stupid. So what did his comments do for the NHLPA?

Whew, sorry - just hadn't vented about the whole thing in awhile and your comment hit a point that seemed very valid to me. :beatup:

[nccanes]

Excellent point SHC. In all of the discussions (message boards and real conversations) that I've been party to have NEVER quoted one of these soundbites and said "see the players are 100% RIGHT - give them what they want" or "see the poor owners are 100% RIGHT - give them what they want". The soundbites are for whom? The general sports media and sports fan who doesn't really give a rip at all about the NHL? Those people might have a passing general interest from a current events standpoint, but will THEY be putting any pressure on the owners or players? No. Will they be the ones who would be at the games (or not)? No.

So that leaves the rest of us who are sick of reading this crap because we actually DO read it and KNOW who the people saying it are. I mean, ask any non-hockey , but sports fan what Bryan McCabe said about the players feelings toward a long lock out and they'll say "who?". The rest of us know he was a dumbass who made the players look stupid. So what did his comments do for the NHLPA?

Whew, sorry - just hadn't vented about the whole thing in awhile and your comment hit a point that seemed very valid to me. :beatup:

[puck_it]

well if i had to pick a side id go with the owners for the mere fact that ticket prices would not need to go up. but i see both sides. since all i care about is quality hockey, thats all i ask for.

[puck_it]

well if i had to pick a side id go with the owners for the mere fact that ticket prices would not need to go up. but i see both sides. since all i care about is quality hockey, thats all i ask for.

[puck_it]

well if i had to pick a side id go with the owners for the mere fact that ticket prices would not need to go up. but i see both sides. since all i care about is quality hockey, thats all i ask for.

[talkingcanes]

Agency looking at barnstorming tours

Canadian Press
6/18/2004

TORONTO (CP) - International Management Group, which represents NHL stars such as Joe Thornton, Mats Sundin and Jaromir Jagr, is looking at staging exhibition games if team owners lock out players this autumn.

``We have a couple of interesting projects we are looking into in Europe and North America,'' J.P. Barry, co-managing director of IMG's hockey division, told the Globe and Mail's. ``We have established relationships around the world in terms of putting together events in Europe and North America, and we have contacts at many arenas because of our connections to the figure-skating world.

``But anything we do will be in conjunction with the NHL Players' Association because any of these events will not be just for our clients, they will be for the entire membership.''

During a lockout 10 years ago, Wayne Gretzky formed a team that went on a five-country, eight-game barnstorming tour. Prior to that tour, the NHLPA staged a four-team, four-on-four tournament at Copps Coliseum in Hamilton.

[talkingcanes]

Agency looking at barnstorming tours

Canadian Press
6/18/2004

TORONTO (CP) - International Management Group, which represents NHL stars such as Joe Thornton, Mats Sundin and Jaromir Jagr, is looking at staging exhibition games if team owners lock out players this autumn.

``We have a couple of interesting projects we are looking into in Europe and North America,'' J.P. Barry, co-managing director of IMG's hockey division, told the Globe and Mail's. ``We have established relationships around the world in terms of putting together events in Europe and North America, and we have contacts at many arenas because of our connections to the figure-skating world.

``But anything we do will be in conjunction with the NHL Players' Association because any of these events will not be just for our clients, they will be for the entire membership.''

During a lockout 10 years ago, Wayne Gretzky formed a team that went on a five-country, eight-game barnstorming tour. Prior to that tour, the NHLPA staged a four-team, four-on-four tournament at Copps Coliseum in Hamilton.

[talkingcanes]

Agency looking at barnstorming tours

Canadian Press
6/18/2004

TORONTO (CP) - International Management Group, which represents NHL stars such as Joe Thornton, Mats Sundin and Jaromir Jagr, is looking at staging exhibition games if team owners lock out players this autumn.

``We have a couple of interesting projects we are looking into in Europe and North America,'' J.P. Barry, co-managing director of IMG's hockey division, told the Globe and Mail's. ``We have established relationships around the world in terms of putting together events in Europe and North America, and we have contacts at many arenas because of our connections to the figure-skating world.

``But anything we do will be in conjunction with the NHL Players' Association because any of these events will not be just for our clients, they will be for the entire membership.''

During a lockout 10 years ago, Wayne Gretzky formed a team that went on a five-country, eight-game barnstorming tour. Prior to that tour, the NHLPA staged a four-team, four-on-four tournament at Copps Coliseum in Hamilton.

[talkingcanes]

offered without comment because I can't think of a comment that won't violate community standards :mad:

Players plan a lockout party
New Year's Eve at the SkyDome

NHLers talking about tours, too

RICK WESTHEAD AND KEN CAMPBELL
STAFF REPORTERS

Some of the NHL's top stars are concocting a New Year's Eve party to remember.

The NHL Players' Association and powerful sports agency International Management Group are in the preliminary stages of planning an exhibition game at the SkyDome on Dec. 31 — if the NHL and the players union can't reach an accord on a new collective bargaining agreement and there's a lockout.

Tentative plans call for Canada's historic win over the Soviets in Game 8 of the 1972 Summit Series to be shown on the stadium's video screen before a squad of present-day Canadian NHLers face off against current Russian NHL stars.

The dome's roof would be open for the contest, modelled after the popular outdoor NHL game held last season in Edmonton. The New Year's Eve event might also feature fireworks, bands and a women's game.

A decade after the last NHL lockout prompted Wayne Gretzky to headline a series of exhibition games in Western Europe, the players — who now garner an average $1.8 million (U.S.) a season in on-ice earnings — may again be looking to find ways to offset the loss of their league-related income and win their public-relations battle against the league. There's talk of a Scandinavian tour, or a barnstorming tour of smaller Canadian cities.

"The tour would be like a Barnum and Bailey circus," said Bob Stellick, a former Maple Leafs executive who now works as a marketing consultant.

"It's a great vehicle to stand up in these cities and say, `Hey, we love playing this game and we'd love nothing more than to get back playing in front of our fans.'"

With the World Cup of Hockey still 10 weeks away and summer just starting, it may seem early to be considering alternate plans for next season.

But many prospective event sponsors such as Molson or McDonald's are in the midst of planning their million-dollar marketing budgets for next season. Similarly, hockey arenas that might host a game for estranged NHL stars are already running short on open dates for the fall.

Hamilton's Copps Coliseum — which charges about $10,000 a day or 15 per cent of an event's gross ticket sales, whichever is larger — has only one available Saturday remaining from Oct. 2 to Nov. 27. The rest have been reserved for American Hockey League games and other events, which have not yet been announced, said Brad Calder, chief executive of the Hamilton Entertainment and Convention Facilities Inc.

Still, the NHLPA may be planning to play its games, and bolster goodwill, through smaller Canadian cities.

One plan under consideration by the union calls for NHL players to barnstorm through towns that have junior hockey clubs, such as Peterborough, London and North Bay. The games would feature a four-on-four format and players might suit up in jerseys of their former teams.

A third scenario being mulled over would see the NHL play a skills competition in October in the Muskoka region. Players might stay at the new Taboo Resort, which has ties to golfer Mike Weir, another IMG client.

Selling television rights would figure prominently into any NHLPA plans.

In 1994, BCE Inc.'s CTV agreed to pay about $200,000 for broadcast rights to a so-called "Four-on-Four Challenge" at Copps Coliseum, with teams from Ontario (former Leafs centre Doug Gilmour appeared as a defenceman), Western Canada, Quebec and the United States.

CBC's Hockey Night In Canada, meanwhile, agreed during the 1994 lockout to pay $400,000 to broadcast two of the Gretzky tour games from Europe on tape delay. (It's unclear whether the proceeds were given to those players involved or were disbursed widely to the union's lockout fund.)

The CBC averaged about 800,000 viewers for the exhibition games, laying the groundwork today for the union to command a rights fee of about $200,000 for each telecast if it embarks on another European tour, according to one former sports TV official.

While CTV, its sports cable cousin TSN and Rogers Sportsnet might be leery of striking a TV deal with the union in case in jeopardizes their relationships with the league, the CBC might still be a possibility.

"(NHL commissioner) Gary Bettman has closed the loophole by making the TV deals more of a league partnership," said one sports TV source, "but the CBC likes to be a little more cognizant of playing it down the middle between the league and the union."

To be sure, any NHL millionaire who plays in a union-sanctioned game would need insurance coverage, and that won't be as easy, or inexpensive, to buy as it was 10 years ago.

Insurance rates for professional athletes have tripled in the past decade, said Greg Sutton of Toronto-based underwriter William J. Sutton & Co., a specialist in the sports industry.

A healthy NHL player in his mid-20s with no history of serious injuries now pays as much as $15,000 for each $1 million worth of coverage, Sutton said.

The NHLPA, meanwhile, will not be cutting cheques for players during a lockout the way it did last time. Even though the union has an estimated war chest in excess of $100 million (U.S.), lockout money this time around will be distributed to players only on an "if needed" basis and there is no designated lockout fund.

"That's because the PA has been telling players to save for a lockout for the past two years and most of them have done that," said a player agent.

"I can't see the PA cutting a cheque for Mats Sundin for $2,000."

[talkingcanes]

offered without comment because I can't think of a comment that won't violate community standards :mad:

Players plan a lockout party
New Year's Eve at the SkyDome

NHLers talking about tours, too

RICK WESTHEAD AND KEN CAMPBELL
STAFF REPORTERS

Some of the NHL's top stars are concocting a New Year's Eve party to remember.

The NHL Players' Association and powerful sports agency International Management Group are in the preliminary stages of planning an exhibition game at the SkyDome on Dec. 31 — if the NHL and the players union can't reach an accord on a new collective bargaining agreement and there's a lockout.

Tentative plans call for Canada's historic win over the Soviets in Game 8 of the 1972 Summit Series to be shown on the stadium's video screen before a squad of present-day Canadian NHLers face off against current Russian NHL stars.

The dome's roof would be open for the contest, modelled after the popular outdoor NHL game held last season in Edmonton. The New Year's Eve event might also feature fireworks, bands and a women's game.

A decade after the last NHL lockout prompted Wayne Gretzky to headline a series of exhibition games in Western Europe, the players — who now garner an average $1.8 million (U.S.) a season in on-ice earnings — may again be looking to find ways to offset the loss of their league-related income and win their public-relations battle against the league. There's talk of a Scandinavian tour, or a barnstorming tour of smaller Canadian cities.

"The tour would be like a Barnum and Bailey circus," said Bob Stellick, a former Maple Leafs executive who now works as a marketing consultant.

"It's a great vehicle to stand up in these cities and say, `Hey, we love playing this game and we'd love nothing more than to get back playing in front of our fans.'"

With the World Cup of Hockey still 10 weeks away and summer just starting, it may seem early to be considering alternate plans for next season.

But many prospective event sponsors such as Molson or McDonald's are in the midst of planning their million-dollar marketing budgets for next season. Similarly, hockey arenas that might host a game for estranged NHL stars are already running short on open dates for the fall.

Hamilton's Copps Coliseum — which charges about $10,000 a day or 15 per cent of an event's gross ticket sales, whichever is larger — has only one available Saturday remaining from Oct. 2 to Nov. 27. The rest have been reserved for American Hockey League games and other events, which have not yet been announced, said Brad Calder, chief executive of the Hamilton Entertainment and Convention Facilities Inc.

Still, the NHLPA may be planning to play its games, and bolster goodwill, through smaller Canadian cities.

One plan under consideration by the union calls for NHL players to barnstorm through towns that have junior hockey clubs, such as Peterborough, London and North Bay. The games would feature a four-on-four format and players might suit up in jerseys of their former teams.

A third scenario being mulled over would see the NHL play a skills competition in October in the Muskoka region. Players might stay at the new Taboo Resort, which has ties to golfer Mike Weir, another IMG client.

Selling television rights would figure prominently into any NHLPA plans.

In 1994, BCE Inc.'s CTV agreed to pay about $200,000 for broadcast rights to a so-called "Four-on-Four Challenge" at Copps Coliseum, with teams from Ontario (former Leafs centre Doug Gilmour appeared as a defenceman), Western Canada, Quebec and the United States.

CBC's Hockey Night In Canada, meanwhile, agreed during the 1994 lockout to pay $400,000 to broadcast two of the Gretzky tour games from Europe on tape delay. (It's unclear whether the proceeds were given to those players involved or were disbursed widely to the union's lockout fund.)

The CBC averaged about 800,000 viewers for the exhibition games, laying the groundwork today for the union to command a rights fee of about $200,000 for each telecast if it embarks on another European tour, according to one former sports TV official.

While CTV, its sports cable cousin TSN and Rogers Sportsnet might be leery of striking a TV deal with the union in case in jeopardizes their relationships with the league, the CBC might still be a possibility.

"(NHL commissioner) Gary Bettman has closed the loophole by making the TV deals more of a league partnership," said one sports TV source, "but the CBC likes to be a little more cognizant of playing it down the middle between the league and the union."

To be sure, any NHL millionaire who plays in a union-sanctioned game would need insurance coverage, and that won't be as easy, or inexpensive, to buy as it was 10 years ago.

Insurance rates for professional athletes have tripled in the past decade, said Greg Sutton of Toronto-based underwriter William J. Sutton & Co., a specialist in the sports industry.

A healthy NHL player in his mid-20s with no history of serious injuries now pays as much as $15,000 for each $1 million worth of coverage, Sutton said.

The NHLPA, meanwhile, will not be cutting cheques for players during a lockout the way it did last time. Even though the union has an estimated war chest in excess of $100 million (U.S.), lockout money this time around will be distributed to players only on an "if needed" basis and there is no designated lockout fund.

"That's because the PA has been telling players to save for a lockout for the past two years and most of them have done that," said a player agent.

"I can't see the PA cutting a cheque for Mats Sundin for $2,000."

[talkingcanes]

offered without comment because I can't think of a comment that won't violate community standards :mad:

Players plan a lockout party
New Year's Eve at the SkyDome

NHLers talking about tours, too

RICK WESTHEAD AND KEN CAMPBELL
STAFF REPORTERS

Some of the NHL's top stars are concocting a New Year's Eve party to remember.

The NHL Players' Association and powerful sports agency International Management Group are in the preliminary stages of planning an exhibition game at the SkyDome on Dec. 31 — if the NHL and the players union can't reach an accord on a new collective bargaining agreement and there's a lockout.

Tentative plans call for Canada's historic win over the Soviets in Game 8 of the 1972 Summit Series to be shown on the stadium's video screen before a squad of present-day Canadian NHLers face off against current Russian NHL stars.

The dome's roof would be open for the contest, modelled after the popular outdoor NHL game held last season in Edmonton. The New Year's Eve event might also feature fireworks, bands and a women's game.

A decade after the last NHL lockout prompted Wayne Gretzky to headline a series of exhibition games in Western Europe, the players — who now garner an average $1.8 million (U.S.) a season in on-ice earnings — may again be looking to find ways to offset the loss of their league-related income and win their public-relations battle against the league. There's talk of a Scandinavian tour, or a barnstorming tour of smaller Canadian cities.

"The tour would be like a Barnum and Bailey circus," said Bob Stellick, a former Maple Leafs executive who now works as a marketing consultant.

"It's a great vehicle to stand up in these cities and say, `Hey, we love playing this game and we'd love nothing more than to get back playing in front of our fans.'"

With the World Cup of Hockey still 10 weeks away and summer just starting, it may seem early to be considering alternate plans for next season.

But many prospective event sponsors such as Molson or McDonald's are in the midst of planning their million-dollar marketing budgets for next season. Similarly, hockey arenas that might host a game for estranged NHL stars are already running short on open dates for the fall.

Hamilton's Copps Coliseum — which charges about $10,000 a day or 15 per cent of an event's gross ticket sales, whichever is larger — has only one available Saturday remaining from Oct. 2 to Nov. 27. The rest have been reserved for American Hockey League games and other events, which have not yet been announced, said Brad Calder, chief executive of the Hamilton Entertainment and Convention Facilities Inc.

Still, the NHLPA may be planning to play its games, and bolster goodwill, through smaller Canadian cities.

One plan under consideration by the union calls for NHL players to barnstorm through towns that have junior hockey clubs, such as Peterborough, London and North Bay. The games would feature a four-on-four format and players might suit up in jerseys of their former teams.

A third scenario being mulled over would see the NHL play a skills competition in October in the Muskoka region. Players might stay at the new Taboo Resort, which has ties to golfer Mike Weir, another IMG client.

Selling television rights would figure prominently into any NHLPA plans.

In 1994, BCE Inc.'s CTV agreed to pay about $200,000 for broadcast rights to a so-called "Four-on-Four Challenge" at Copps Coliseum, with teams from Ontario (former Leafs centre Doug Gilmour appeared as a defenceman), Western Canada, Quebec and the United States.

CBC's Hockey Night In Canada, meanwhile, agreed during the 1994 lockout to pay $400,000 to broadcast two of the Gretzky tour games from Europe on tape delay. (It's unclear whether the proceeds were given to those players involved or were disbursed widely to the union's lockout fund.)

The CBC averaged about 800,000 viewers for the exhibition games, laying the groundwork today for the union to command a rights fee of about $200,000 for each telecast if it embarks on another European tour, according to one former sports TV official.

While CTV, its sports cable cousin TSN and Rogers Sportsnet might be leery of striking a TV deal with the union in case in jeopardizes their relationships with the league, the CBC might still be a possibility.

"(NHL commissioner) Gary Bettman has closed the loophole by making the TV deals more of a league partnership," said one sports TV source, "but the CBC likes to be a little more cognizant of playing it down the middle between the league and the union."

To be sure, any NHL millionaire who plays in a union-sanctioned game would need insurance coverage, and that won't be as easy, or inexpensive, to buy as it was 10 years ago.

Insurance rates for professional athletes have tripled in the past decade, said Greg Sutton of Toronto-based underwriter William J. Sutton & Co., a specialist in the sports industry.

A healthy NHL player in his mid-20s with no history of serious injuries now pays as much as $15,000 for each $1 million worth of coverage, Sutton said.

The NHLPA, meanwhile, will not be cutting cheques for players during a lockout the way it did last time. Even though the union has an estimated war chest in excess of $100 million (U.S.), lockout money this time around will be distributed to players only on an "if needed" basis and there is no designated lockout fund.

"That's because the PA has been telling players to save for a lockout for the past two years and most of them have done that," said a player agent.

"I can't see the PA cutting a cheque for Mats Sundin for $2,000."

[puck_it]

"I want there to be hockey next year," Andreychuk said. "I think as a group in here, we have something going, and I believe the best thing for us is to keep playing as a unit. For myself personally, I want to play. And if I'm not playing, I want to watch. As a fan, I don't want to be denied that, watching hockey."

that was on espn.com it was old but appropritate.

[puck_it]

"I want there to be hockey next year," Andreychuk said. "I think as a group in here, we have something going, and I believe the best thing for us is to keep playing as a unit. For myself personally, I want to play. And if I'm not playing, I want to watch. As a fan, I don't want to be denied that, watching hockey."

that was on espn.com it was old but appropritate.

[puck_it]

"I want there to be hockey next year," Andreychuk said. "I think as a group in here, we have something going, and I believe the best thing for us is to keep playing as a unit. For myself personally, I want to play. And if I'm not playing, I want to watch. As a fan, I don't want to be denied that, watching hockey."

that was on espn.com it was old but appropritate.

[Guyute]

"It's a great vehicle to stand up in these cities and say, `Hey, we love playing this game and we'd love nothing more than to get back playing in front of our fans.'"


so grow some balls and agree to do something about this league that is losing money hand over fist. :roll:

[Guyute]

"It's a great vehicle to stand up in these cities and say, `Hey, we love playing this game and we'd love nothing more than to get back playing in front of our fans.'"


so grow some balls and agree to do something about this league that is losing money hand over fist. :roll:

[Guyute]

"It's a great vehicle to stand up in these cities and say, `Hey, we love playing this game and we'd love nothing more than to get back playing in front of our fans.'"


so grow some balls and agree to do something about this league that is losing money hand over fist. :roll:

[Mona]

Players plan a lockout party
New Year's Eve at the SkyDome



I just saw this and I can say that it really pisses me off!! :mad: :mad: So they are planning a big party while the people that have paid their salaries for years and supported their asses win or lose are sad because their favorite sport as they have known it is on the road to extinction???
:mad: **inserts fu emoticon from tridead.net**

[Mona]

Players plan a lockout party
New Year's Eve at the SkyDome



I just saw this and I can say that it really pisses me off!! :mad: :mad: So they are planning a big party while the people that have paid their salaries for years and supported their asses win or lose are sad because their favorite sport as they have known it is on the road to extinction???
:mad: **inserts fu emoticon from tridead.net**

[Mona]

Players plan a lockout party
New Year's Eve at the SkyDome



I just saw this and I can say that it really pisses me off!! :mad: :mad: So they are planning a big party while the people that have paid their salaries for years and supported their asses win or lose are sad because their favorite sport as they have known it is on the road to extinction???
:mad: **inserts fu emoticon from tridead.net**

[Captain Slack]

Hicks predicts difficult labour talks

TSN.ca Staff

6/23/2004

Dallas Stars owner Tom Hicks says the NHL and its players union are headed for "difficult labor negotiations" and he's not optimistic next season will start on time.

Following the league's Board of Governor's meeting in New York on Tuesday, Hicks says both sides in the labour dispute appear firmly entrenched.

"I'm impressed with the owners' unity," he tells the Dallas Morning News.

"The nature of these negotiations is they never get serious until the last 30 days. It won't get serious until August." :mad: http://www.tridead.net/canes/images/smilies/bang.gif

NHL owners are said to favour a new collective bargaining agreement with some sort of cap, tying player salaries to league revenues. The union has said it would not accept any form of a salary cap and that salaries should be determined by supply and demand.

"Ticket prices are too high and the players have gotten way too much money. That has to change," said Hicks, who notes that his team is among the top three in terms of revenues but still loses money.

"The NFL has the right model. They said, 'Here's how you divide the pie, now let's go grow the pie.'"

Hicks, who undertook a cost-cutting plan with the Texas Rangers baseball team, has already promised that his team's payroll will shrink next season. He points to the Stanley Cup final which featured the Tampa Bay Lightning and Calgary Flames as proof that money doesn't buy a championship.

"I think the (New York) Rangers have proved that," said Hicks. "If you look at the Stanley Cup Finals, it was not about payroll, it was about players. We're going in a direction that will give us better, younger, more aggressive players."

Hicks adds he's hopeful hockey fans will stick by hockey even through a work stoppage because they realize "it's time to fix the sport".

[Captain Slack]

Hicks predicts difficult labour talks

TSN.ca Staff

6/23/2004

Dallas Stars owner Tom Hicks says the NHL and its players union are headed for "difficult labor negotiations" and he's not optimistic next season will start on time.

Following the league's Board of Governor's meeting in New York on Tuesday, Hicks says both sides in the labour dispute appear firmly entrenched.

"I'm impressed with the owners' unity," he tells the Dallas Morning News.

"The nature of these negotiations is they never get serious until the last 30 days. It won't get serious until August." :mad: http://www.tridead.net/canes/images/smilies/bang.gif

NHL owners are said to favour a new collective bargaining agreement with some sort of cap, tying player salaries to league revenues. The union has said it would not accept any form of a salary cap and that salaries should be determined by supply and demand.

"Ticket prices are too high and the players have gotten way too much money. That has to change," said Hicks, who notes that his team is among the top three in terms of revenues but still loses money.

"The NFL has the right model. They said, 'Here's how you divide the pie, now let's go grow the pie.'"

Hicks, who undertook a cost-cutting plan with the Texas Rangers baseball team, has already promised that his team's payroll will shrink next season. He points to the Stanley Cup final which featured the Tampa Bay Lightning and Calgary Flames as proof that money doesn't buy a championship.

"I think the (New York) Rangers have proved that," said Hicks. "If you look at the Stanley Cup Finals, it was not about payroll, it was about players. We're going in a direction that will give us better, younger, more aggressive players."

Hicks adds he's hopeful hockey fans will stick by hockey even through a work stoppage because they realize "it's time to fix the sport".

[Captain Slack]

Hicks predicts difficult labour talks

TSN.ca Staff

6/23/2004

Dallas Stars owner Tom Hicks says the NHL and its players union are headed for "difficult labor negotiations" and he's not optimistic next season will start on time.

Following the league's Board of Governor's meeting in New York on Tuesday, Hicks says both sides in the labour dispute appear firmly entrenched.

"I'm impressed with the owners' unity," he tells the Dallas Morning News.

"The nature of these negotiations is they never get serious until the last 30 days. It won't get serious until August." :mad: http://www.tridead.net/canes/images/smilies/bang.gif

NHL owners are said to favour a new collective bargaining agreement with some sort of cap, tying player salaries to league revenues. The union has said it would not accept any form of a salary cap and that salaries should be determined by supply and demand.

"Ticket prices are too high and the players have gotten way too much money. That has to change," said Hicks, who notes that his team is among the top three in terms of revenues but still loses money.

"The NFL has the right model. They said, 'Here's how you divide the pie, now let's go grow the pie.'"

Hicks, who undertook a cost-cutting plan with the Texas Rangers baseball team, has already promised that his team's payroll will shrink next season. He points to the Stanley Cup final which featured the Tampa Bay Lightning and Calgary Flames as proof that money doesn't buy a championship.

"I think the (New York) Rangers have proved that," said Hicks. "If you look at the Stanley Cup Finals, it was not about payroll, it was about players. We're going in a direction that will give us better, younger, more aggressive players."

Hicks adds he's hopeful hockey fans will stick by hockey even through a work stoppage because they realize "it's time to fix the sport".

[talkingcanes]

"The nature of these negotiations is they never get serious until the last 30 days. It won't get serious until August."

says mama Gump to Bettman and Goodenow, "stupid is as stupid does".

[talkingcanes]

"The nature of these negotiations is they never get serious until the last 30 days. It won't get serious until August."

says mama Gump to Bettman and Goodenow, "stupid is as stupid does".

[talkingcanes]

"The nature of these negotiations is they never get serious until the last 30 days. It won't get serious until August."

says mama Gump to Bettman and Goodenow, "stupid is as stupid does".

[nccanes]

A Herald-Sun article (again with the kind of quotes the N/O just seems unable to get or chooses not to publish):

Will lockout plans be put on ice?

By NEIL AMATO, The Herald-Sun
June 23, 2004 11:48 pm

Carolina Hurricanes player Kevyn Adams would go to more college football and basketball games, especially those at N.C. State. Team radio voice Chuck Kaiton would take a trip to California and visit two of his sons. One Canes season-ticket holder would spend more time with his wife and young son. One Montreal sports-bar owner said his business would "roll over and die."

What would you do if there was no NHL season?

That's a question weighing on the minds of hockey followers everywhere. Yes, the NHL Entry Draft is in Raleigh this weekend -- the first three rounds are Saturday at the RBC Center -- and the top prospects will be paraded around to the public. But none of the draftees can make his mark on the NHL this season if the league's owners and players fail to come to terms on a new collective-bargaining agreement.

Their deadline is Sept. 15.

Adams, the franchise's union representative, said he was optimistic the sides could come to an agreement, though he said there had been little movement lately. Adams is in upstate New York for a few months this summer, and he'll be back in Raleigh soon, training for a season that may or may not happen. He'll remain in the Triangle, but possibly with more free time to take in college sports.

Beyond that, he's not sure what he'll do.

"It's all I've done since I was 5 years old," said Adams, 29. "It's kind of -- I don't know -- I'll be ?"

At a loss for words, the same as those who might watch him.

"It's something you don't want to think about," said season ticket-holder John Salvatore.

He and his brother, Nick, achieved some notoriety two seasons ago during the Canes' run to the Stanley Cup finals. They were the tuxedo-clad "Dumb & Dumber" impersonators who sat low, near the Canes' bench. The tuxes have been shelved since the 2002-03 opener, after which he became a father, but the brothers still attend the games, 41 in the regular season.

They renewed their seats in April, taking advantage of a team promotion that offered a 20 percent discount and contingencies for a work stoppage. Salvatore said the franchise offered, in the event of a lockout, to refund the ticket holder's money immediately or hold the money, accruing 2 percent in interest, until games were played.

"It's a no-lose situation," Salvatore said. "If there's not games, we'll just have to live with it and move on. Hopefully, we can get what we paid for."

Kaiton, who has been the franchise's only broadcaster since it joined the NHL in 1979 as the Hartford Whalers, plans to stay near his phone, but not necessarily near Raleigh in the event of a lockout.

"I would try to get a football [announcing] job at the University of Michigan," the Michigander said.

He will be going to Toronto in November to receive a broadcasting honor from hockey's Hall of Fame. But beyond that and a visit to his sons on the West Coast, Kaiton isn't sure what he'll be up to, other than a few more rounds of golf, if he's not calling games.

In late 1994, the last time there was an NHL lockout, Kaiton had a plan. He was in Hartford then, so he became an AHL fixture at games in Worcester, Mass., where friend Jimmy Roberts was the coach. He can't do that in Raleigh.

Likewise, Peter Bitharas is not sure Montreal hockey fans would suddenly start attending junior-league games in Quebec. "They'll just stay home or come here and watch [pro] football," said Bitharas, a co-owner of Montreal sports bar Champs.

Bitharas predicted an impact far beyond the big screens his customers flock to during hockey season.

"It would be devastating for the entire country," he said. "People would lose their jobs, business would go bad. It would be terrible."



URL for this article: http://www.herald-sun.com/sports/18-494095.html

[nccanes]

A Herald-Sun article (again with the kind of quotes the N/O just seems unable to get or chooses not to publish):

Will lockout plans be put on ice?

By NEIL AMATO, The Herald-Sun
June 23, 2004 11:48 pm

Carolina Hurricanes player Kevyn Adams would go to more college football and basketball games, especially those at N.C. State. Team radio voice Chuck Kaiton would take a trip to California and visit two of his sons. One Canes season-ticket holder would spend more time with his wife and young son. One Montreal sports-bar owner said his business would "roll over and die."

What would you do if there was no NHL season?

That's a question weighing on the minds of hockey followers everywhere. Yes, the NHL Entry Draft is in Raleigh this weekend -- the first three rounds are Saturday at the RBC Center -- and the top prospects will be paraded around to the public. But none of the draftees can make his mark on the NHL this season if the league's owners and players fail to come to terms on a new collective-bargaining agreement.

Their deadline is Sept. 15.

Adams, the franchise's union representative, said he was optimistic the sides could come to an agreement, though he said there had been little movement lately. Adams is in upstate New York for a few months this summer, and he'll be back in Raleigh soon, training for a season that may or may not happen. He'll remain in the Triangle, but possibly with more free time to take in college sports.

Beyond that, he's not sure what he'll do.

"It's all I've done since I was 5 years old," said Adams, 29. "It's kind of -- I don't know -- I'll be ?"

At a loss for words, the same as those who might watch him.

"It's something you don't want to think about," said season ticket-holder John Salvatore.

He and his brother, Nick, achieved some notoriety two seasons ago during the Canes' run to the Stanley Cup finals. They were the tuxedo-clad "Dumb & Dumber" impersonators who sat low, near the Canes' bench. The tuxes have been shelved since the 2002-03 opener, after which he became a father, but the brothers still attend the games, 41 in the regular season.

They renewed their seats in April, taking advantage of a team promotion that offered a 20 percent discount and contingencies for a work stoppage. Salvatore said the franchise offered, in the event of a lockout, to refund the ticket holder's money immediately or hold the money, accruing 2 percent in interest, until games were played.

"It's a no-lose situation," Salvatore said. "If there's not games, we'll just have to live with it and move on. Hopefully, we can get what we paid for."

Kaiton, who has been the franchise's only broadcaster since it joined the NHL in 1979 as the Hartford Whalers, plans to stay near his phone, but not necessarily near Raleigh in the event of a lockout.

"I would try to get a football [announcing] job at the University of Michigan," the Michigander said.

He will be going to Toronto in November to receive a broadcasting honor from hockey's Hall of Fame. But beyond that and a visit to his sons on the West Coast, Kaiton isn't sure what he'll be up to, other than a few more rounds of golf, if he's not calling games.

In late 1994, the last time there was an NHL lockout, Kaiton had a plan. He was in Hartford then, so he became an AHL fixture at games in Worcester, Mass., where friend Jimmy Roberts was the coach. He can't do that in Raleigh.

Likewise, Peter Bitharas is not sure Montreal hockey fans would suddenly start attending junior-league games in Quebec. "They'll just stay home or come here and watch [pro] football," said Bitharas, a co-owner of Montreal sports bar Champs.

Bitharas predicted an impact far beyond the big screens his customers flock to during hockey season.

"It would be devastating for the entire country," he said. "People would lose their jobs, business would go bad. It would be terrible."



URL for this article: http://www.herald-sun.com/sports/18-494095.html

[nccanes]

A Herald-Sun article (again with the kind of quotes the N/O just seems unable to get or chooses not to publish):

Will lockout plans be put on ice?

By NEIL AMATO, The Herald-Sun
June 23, 2004 11:48 pm

Carolina Hurricanes player Kevyn Adams would go to more college football and basketball games, especially those at N.C. State. Team radio voice Chuck Kaiton would take a trip to California and visit two of his sons. One Canes season-ticket holder would spend more time with his wife and young son. One Montreal sports-bar owner said his business would "roll over and die."

What would you do if there was no NHL season?

That's a question weighing on the minds of hockey followers everywhere. Yes, the NHL Entry Draft is in Raleigh this weekend -- the first three rounds are Saturday at the RBC Center -- and the top prospects will be paraded around to the public. But none of the draftees can make his mark on the NHL this season if the league's owners and players fail to come to terms on a new collective-bargaining agreement.

Their deadline is Sept. 15.

Adams, the franchise's union representative, said he was optimistic the sides could come to an agreement, though he said there had been little movement lately. Adams is in upstate New York for a few months this summer, and he'll be back in Raleigh soon, training for a season that may or may not happen. He'll remain in the Triangle, but possibly with more free time to take in college sports.

Beyond that, he's not sure what he'll do.

"It's all I've done since I was 5 years old," said Adams, 29. "It's kind of -- I don't know -- I'll be ?"

At a loss for words, the same as those who might watch him.

"It's something you don't want to think about," said season ticket-holder John Salvatore.

He and his brother, Nick, achieved some notoriety two seasons ago during the Canes' run to the Stanley Cup finals. They were the tuxedo-clad "Dumb & Dumber" impersonators who sat low, near the Canes' bench. The tuxes have been shelved since the 2002-03 opener, after which he became a father, but the brothers still attend the games, 41 in the regular season.

They renewed their seats in April, taking advantage of a team promotion that offered a 20 percent discount and contingencies for a work stoppage. Salvatore said the franchise offered, in the event of a lockout, to refund the ticket holder's money immediately or hold the money, accruing 2 percent in interest, until games were played.

"It's a no-lose situation," Salvatore said. "If there's not games, we'll just have to live with it and move on. Hopefully, we can get what we paid for."

Kaiton, who has been the franchise's only broadcaster since it joined the NHL in 1979 as the Hartford Whalers, plans to stay near his phone, but not necessarily near Raleigh in the event of a lockout.

"I would try to get a football [announcing] job at the University of Michigan," the Michigander said.

He will be going to Toronto in November to receive a broadcasting honor from hockey's Hall of Fame. But beyond that and a visit to his sons on the West Coast, Kaiton isn't sure what he'll be up to, other than a few more rounds of golf, if he's not calling games.

In late 1994, the last time there was an NHL lockout, Kaiton had a plan. He was in Hartford then, so he became an AHL fixture at games in Worcester, Mass., where friend Jimmy Roberts was the coach. He can't do that in Raleigh.

Likewise, Peter Bitharas is not sure Montreal hockey fans would suddenly start attending junior-league games in Quebec. "They'll just stay home or come here and watch [pro] football," said Bitharas, a co-owner of Montreal sports bar Champs.

Bitharas predicted an impact far beyond the big screens his customers flock to during hockey season.

"It would be devastating for the entire country," he said. "People would lose their jobs, business would go bad. It would be terrible."



URL for this article: http://www.herald-sun.com/sports/18-494095.html