Armchair GM- what to do...

[Mona2006]

(split out from Sens Game Thread)

A co-worker of mine was listening to John F on the radio as he drove in this morning. He said John was hot and he voiced his opinions about what is needed.. he repeatedly mentioned the big trades that are needed to wake this team up and the fact that the Canes do not have a player that can bring the puck up the ice and control it..zone to zone..and that is what he thinks we need. I look for someone like Craig to be packaged with one of our best and shipped out anyday now.

[Guyute]

Yeah, we've had Multiple embarrassments this season. More/worse than in any other season I remember. A big shake up trade is an extremely high possibility.

[Caniac]

I feel like we're listening to a broken record here. One of these games. Talk of a trade of one of the big names and a low D. Good game. Talk of a roster slot being saved. Repeat ad nauseum.

I'm getting sick. JR, do something. Do it now. It might hurt initially, but it's necessary to go ahead and get it over with and put this mess behind us.

[PennsylvaniaCanesFan]

To restate what everyone already knows: something is VERY wrong with this team. I'm leaning in favor of drastic measures to get this team back on track. What are those measures? Let me explain a few.
1) Trade. But who would we trade? We know we need D. But our O hasn't been playing great either lately. Before the season, we knew we would probally have to score 4+ to win games. So, do we get something to shake up the offense or the defenseman we desperately need? As for who would go, it's hard to say. A lot have no trade clauses as Stillman and Whitney (I think). Cole is a risk due to the injury. Walker and Williams aren't going to bring enough in return. Brindy I would deem untouchable. Notice who I didn't mention whose name also begins with a S? And before anyone says it can't happen, it can. Look at Heatley for Hossa years ago. I'm not saying I would do it, but it may be a possibility.
2) Strip Brindy of the C. Yes you read that right. The team is showing no motivation. It's the captain's job to pull teams up when they are not playing well. We have not played well in a month. Status quo is not working. Again, this is just a thought.
3) Coaching staff. It may be a little early to think this route. But as the season goes on and nothing changes, I'm sure this option will get louder and louder.

These are just observations. I am not advising we do any of these, but they are all options. Opinions? Thoughts? Flames?

[Canesluver]

O.K... well your point #2 is just plain silly.

[PennsylvaniaCanesFan]

^I did forget to mention it is before my brain actually wakes up for the day, so take anything with a grain of salt.

[Guyute]

First step is a trade, imo. You don't do #2. Even if we entertain the thought, who would be the replacement? Staal's not ready. I don't think Cole is the type (maybe later). Stillman maybe, but I doubt he's as good a motivator as Brindy can be.
There's not many options.

If we pull a NYI and dump Lavi.... I'm out. (Not that I think it would be a possibility. I'm just sayin')

[Guyute]

I split this out from the Game Thread.

[PennsylvaniaCanesFan]

First step is a trade, imo. You don't do #2. Even if we entertain the thought, who would be the replacement? Staal's not ready. I don't think Cole is the type (maybe later). Stillman maybe, but I doubt he's as good a motivator as Brindy can be.
There's not many options.

If we pull a NYI and dump Lavi.... I'm out. (Not that I think it would be a possibility. I'm just sayin')

The only one who could take the C would be Wesley. Stillman COULD do it, but I agree he doesn't seem to have the right personality.

And I agree it's way early to consider coaching shakeups.

Again, I am not saying we do anything. But I am entertaining thoughts as you put it.

[Guyute]

yeah but at most I'd say Wes has another season. You don't take the C away from someone like Brindy to give it to a guy that could retire at any time. /shrug

[IceSun]

:yeah:

I suggest trading Tripp for an announcer that doesn't gush over the opposing team. It may not help the play on the ice, but it would sure make watching the games easier ;)

[nickgregory]

take the question the next step...this team doesnt have "cant miss" prospects to trade and since you have to trade something of value to get something back of value, your likely candidates are:

Untouchables imo

Forwards:
Brindy
Staal
Williams (I would think based on his contract and relatively cheap $$)

Goal:
Ward

Defense:
Wesley

Not likely anyone would trade for these guys given play/contract

Defense:
Kaberle
Hedican

Goal:
Grahame

Potentially on other teams radar, and thus trade bait

Goal:
Leighton (relatively cheap price point and performing in minors)

Defense:
Commodore
Gleason
Seidenberg
Wallin

Forwards:
Cullen
Cole
Stillman
Whitney
Hamilton
Ladd
LaRose
Walker
Tanabe
Letowski

Anaheim is the most logical trade partner given the fact that they need to shed salary, and they have defensemen available, but they would be looking for a good skill/contract dollars in return..and Ladd would be a fit for them, but a trade for a Beauchemin or Schneider is going to take more than just Ladd..

so given this, who do folks think moves if a trade happens?

[puck_it]

up front--Stillman is the only guy who seems to score regularly (and hes said he wants to stay and has an NTC). Cullen has more PP points than most everyone in the league (i think he's third). we need whitneys shot, it's deadly accurate.

Commie and Gleason we need to keep... Well, I could probably be talked into parting with Gleason, but only for someone like when we first got Commodore. Gleason is so young, i'd hate to see him leave. I think he's got a good bit of potential in him. Commodore, I think we need him. badly. He's taken less stupid penalties and has been maturing in his play like crazy... ive seen his shot get better, his skating, his positioning. I'm way against that one.

And marking Williams untouchable... ooofff. I could be convinced to let him go.

all else i suppose I could agree with or be talked into easily

[Guyute]

Commie should be in the untouchable list in my book.

I love Cole, but I could honestly see him being shopped. There are injury concerns, but, he is a proven commodity (when healthy). Teams know what they'll get with him (mostly) and it could be worth going after him.

also, I just noticed that Tanabe was listed as a forward... considering his play has been better than Kaberle's, I'd still count him as D. ;)

[Captain Slack]

The most tradeable asset this team has is Andrew Ladd. He's young, has a lot of potential, and there just isn't room for him here. As has been pointed out, we NEED defense. Anaheim needs to shed defense. Ladd, as has also been pointed out, is a "Brian Burke-type player". Ladd + Kaberle/Letowski/Adams for Beauchemin or O'Donnell? I can see it happening.

Darryl Sydor has also been a healthy scratch of late. He'd be a good fit for our system. With the youth movement the Pens have going on, JR might could get a hold of him for a song. With MA Fleury out for two months with a knee injury, we might could get him straight up for Leighton.

Either of these are possibilities. Knowing JR, he'll either do nothing at all or something no one would have come up with in a million years. SOMEONE has to do SOMETHING, however. This team is floundering. Last night was PAINFUL. If we're going to make the playoffs, a shakeup has to be made or a SEVERE gut check done in the locker room.

But all we can do it wait & wonder in the meantime. :help:

[nickgregory]

I just noticed that Tanabe was listed as a forward... considering his play has been better than Kaberle's, I'd still count him as D. ;)

doh! didnt have my coffee when I posted that obviously...

and I would agree that imo commodore and gleason should be untouchable...but who knows...

[atlflames]

Can someone list who has the No Trade Clauses so we can take them out of the equation?

[puck_it]

Hedi, Stillman, Whitney, Brind'Amour, Walker, Wesley, Wallin... feel like there's noe more that i'm forgetting

[KaniacFever]

I'm getting sick. JR, do something. Do it now. It might hurt initially, but it's necessary to go ahead and get it over with and put this mess behind us.

With the cap trades are harder to come by. If you don't think JR hasn't been on the phone talking, your crazy. With the parity, most teams don't want to trade until closer to the deadline. Right now the ONLY team in desperate need to trade is the Ducks and you can bet, 25 other teams have called Burke with deals. So its much easier said than done.

I still say we need Defense more than offense. We can't keep hanging our goalies out to dry every single night. They can't bail you out all the time, their human and get tired too.

IMO, the untouchables w/o a NTC are Williams, Gleason, and Staal. Williams is young, nice contract, and turning into a great all around player. Gleason is our youngest defensemen, and well he shouldn't go anywhere period. Staal I'm not ready to give up on, yeah he's not been great this year, but damn who has. He's young and we need to hold onto him unless he completly vanishes, which I don't see happening.

I'm actually the minority and would all be for shipping Commodore + out if he can get us a Top 4 Defenseman. I just get the feeling Commodore is going to shop the market after this year. He's single and really there's nothing keeping him here.

I like the idea another poster had about trying to get Sydor out of Pitt. They need a goalie, however, i'd try to give them Grahame first. Leighton can't do any worse than Grahame has here and he's cheaper.

[Caniac]

Tanabe. ;)

[VandyCane]

I don't see Williams as being untouchable. I like the guy and I think he's just in a temporary funk but I can see him being traded.

[atlflames]

Here I sit in my GM Chair looking at the roster:

Goal:
Grahame - Available, but not very marketable at the moment
Ward - Untouchable
Leighton - Available

Defense:
Commodore - Available for a high return. UFA in summer
Gleason - Available only for a VERY high return
Seidenberg - Available but prefer to keep
Wallin - NO TRADE
Wesley - NO TRADE
Kaberle - Available
Hedican - NO TRADE
Tanabe - Available but no one else in league wanted him in the past

Forwards:
Brindy - NO TRADE
Staal - Untouchable
Williams - Untouchable
Cullen - Available only for a VERY high return
Cole - Available only for a VERY high return
Stillman - NO TRADE
Whitney - NO TRADE
Hamilton - Available
Ladd - available for a high return
LaRose - available
Walker - NO TRADE
Letowski - available
Adams - waiver fodder

I see our four players most likely to be traded in a major deal as being, in no particular order:
Commodore
Cole
Ladd
Kaberle

What does everyone else think?

[Captain Slack]

I like the idea another poster had about trying to get Sydor out of Pitt. They need a goalie, however, i'd try to give them Grahame first. Leighton can't do any worse than Grahame has here and he's cheaper.

I'd rather them take Grahame as well, but given how they only want young guys, I figured they'd only take Leighton.

[atlflames]

I don't see Williams as being untouchable. I like the guy and I think he's just in a temporary funk but I can see him being traded.
I agree he is probably not 100% untouchable, but close to it.

IMO we need to put The Wizard back on his line and leave him there. Chad has really brought the offensive capability of that line to a halt.

[KaniacFever]

Interesting, read this on Spectors:

COLE NOT AVAILABLE?

OTTAWA SUN: Bruce Garrioch reports former Senators GM John Muckler nearly had a deal in place back in September 2004 that would've shipped Martin Havlat to Carolina for Erik Cole straight up but it ultimately fell through. Garrioch reports the Hurricanes are now believed interested in Senators defenceman Joe Corvo but doubts the 'Canes would part with Cole now.

Spector's Note: The Hurricanes need blueline depth but I don't believe they'll part with Cole to get it. Cole for Corvo would not be a good swap for the 'Canes.

Now I don't see a Cole for Corvo either, but I wouldn't say so much that he isn't available, maybe not to the Sens.

[nccanes]

How many teams have really every stripped the C from a Captain mid season? :lol: Let alone Rod freakin' Brind'Amour. Let alone a division leading team. That's just crazy talk. If a bad stretch was the criteria, more than half the teams in the league would do that. It's just not happening and should not. End of story.

JR is going to make a trade when he finds one that works. And those are hard to find. I'm sure every team is talking to Brian Burke ... it's hard out there for a pimp... I mean a GM.

As far as anyone to offer up -- it just hurts my head too much to think about it....so I don't ;). All of our top guys have great value to us in one form or another. Giving up any would hurt and could hurt a LOT. Williams and Brindy have been joined at the hip for over two seasons. Does we know what that leaves if we have to peice together that line? We lived w/o Cole for a number of stretch, but I swear to God he seems like he's oozing intensity these days, something that can't be said for a number of others.

it's hard out there for a GM....

[Mona2006]

We lived w/o Cole for a number of stretch, but I swear to God he seems like he's oozing intensity these days, something that can't be said for a number of others.



E I agree with you on that. Several times last night, he was the one and only that even tried to "camp out" in front of Gerbs to get the puck in the net. And I saw him scrapping on neutral ice several times throwing a few people around. The rest of the guys seemed to be invisible last night. *sigh*

I love this team and want the problem fixed immediately. I am a "feeler" (one of the old battles we have had before) and I get attached to the players and hate the thought of our team being split up. But I realize this must be done when nothing else seems to work.

I wouldn't want to be in uniform at a Canes practice today. :crazy:

[evan]

Bag skate anyone?

[andyt]

Bag skate anyone?

Have they ever had one under Lavi?

Anyone at practice this morning?

[BrindAmourFan]

I've been watching practice on the webcam. They were late to arrive on the ice (can you say "team meeting"?). Only a small group of them were out there to begin with, then the rest trickled out. Maybe Lavi had some closed-door sessions and knocked some heads together? :lol:

[Guyute]

I don't think there has been a bag skate under Lavi. Though, it's highly possible (even probable) that there was, during a closed practice. /shrug

[StormShaman]

2) Strip Brindy of the C. Yes you read that right. The team is showing no motivation. It's the captain's job to pull teams up when they are not playing well. We have not played well in a month. Status quo is not working. Again, this is just a thought.

Question: Did you clamour for Francis to have the C taken away from him when we plummeted to dead last back in 02-03? No? Then what's changed here?

Just curious.

[Mona2006]

Maybe Lavi had some closed-door sessions and knocked some heads together? :lol:

Why do Moe, Larry and Curly come to mind? :lol: Maybe that is exactly what they all need. I couldn't see Lavi's face from my seat but I know exactly he looked. Tight lips, looks like he wanted to cry and kill someone at the same time.

If a team deserved a bag skate, as much as I love em, they deserve it after last night. :sick:

[puck_it]

Maybe Lavi had some closed-door sessions and knocked some heads together? :lol:

i think he put scott walker in charge of that

[evan]

i think he put scott walker in charge of that

:lol:

i feel like we've been down this road where lavi has to do the meetings again and again. what else can he possibly say?

[PennsylvaniaCanesFan]

^^^^ The difference there was we were not good from early on. By now, we were pretty much out of contention already.

Fast forward to today. We are in contention for the playoffs. However, if we continue to play poorly, we will not be for much longer.

I hope I am not coming off as hostile and fanaticical. I'm just as frustrated as anyone else.

[Squeaky]

I'm at the point where I question LAVI. He lost the players in Long Island--and he was removed after a promising start and even playoff appearances.

Now more than anything I wonder if the players have quit on Lavi here. They have more talent than they are collectively showing. We KNOW Stall can score and play hard--he showed it in the past and in Oct. We know Williams can score--two straight 30 goal seasons. We know the same for Cole. We know Stillman always delivers. Brind'Amour Walker, Whitney and Cullen are consistent twenty goal scorers. We should never be shut out. We should be scoring three plus per game on average like we did in Oct.

But we don't. The players look like htey do not care and are going through the motions.

Fans see things differently with the players than the coach does. The fans have appeared to be right more often than the coaches looking at this year.

I think we need a different coach--at least a different Asst coach. Isn't the Asst in charge of the PP and the defense?? hasn't that been questionable all year, and in previous years??

I'd start there, then tell Lavi he adapts/or changes or he's next. I think changing players at this point throws in the towel for a few years...

[Guyute]

We're talking about a Coach and System that won us the Cup.
Asking him to adapt or change... to what?? Instead of a puck pursuit system go back to a (Mo) trapping system? Lavi is one of the better coaches in the league. Throw him away and we Are throwing in the towel for a few years.

[StormShaman]

^^^^ The difference there was we were not good from early on. By now, we were pretty much out of contention already.
Actually the downward slide started shortly after we beat Detroit in our house on 29 November (the game where that cheap-ass piece of crap Kirk Maltby shoved Hedican into Kevin Weekes, which put Weekes out with a concussion for several weeks). Before that, this team was in serious playoff contention.

Be that as it may: I don't think the problem here is the Captain. I don't think the problem here is the Coach. I think that what is needed is a trade--this team is too...too...."familiar" with each other, for lack of a better word. It's like they're just stale and in need of a revitalization, kinda like a shrub sometimes needs a pruning in order to thrive again.

[evan]

We're talking about a Coach and System that won us the Cup.
Asking him to adapt or change... to what?? Instead of a puck pursuit system go back to a (Mo) trapping system? Lavi is one of the better coaches in the league. Throw him away and we Are throwing in the towel for a few years.


I don't think anybody is arguing that the puck-pursuit system isn't the way to go - it's what the 'Canes are built to do, it's the motivation factor. The team does seem like it has quit on Lavi and they either need to step it up and save his bacon or "Lavi must go" could be a real phenomenon later on. Not saying I agree, just saying that this is where I think that people are coming from when they question Lavi.

[KaniacFever]

I don't think its time to call for Lavi's head. And to say the team is no longer responding to Lavi is all speculation. How many of us are in that locker room every day?

If I have to guess, which is what we are all doing, I'm guessing these guys are a bit too comfortable in their skates. Thinking their all untouchable and won't be moved b/c they won the cup. I believe a shake up and bringing some fresh blood in will do good. I love this team and don't want to send anyone out, but unless they put together a win streak starting tomorrow and more than a 2 game win streak, then someone or 2 have to go.

[shill22]

got a brain fart question but what's a 'bag skate practice? do you mean they don't skate and they get an arse chewing? okay-I've asked my ignoramous question for the week.

[nccanes]

Obviously JR doesn't have the same type of connection with PL as he had with Mo. Any post-Mo coach will likely have a shorter leash. But Peter Laviolette took the sewn together roster that JR assembled in the Summer of 2005 and led them to the Stanley Cup. That's not the father/son/friend bond that Mo and JR had, but it's a huge bond nonetheless. JR is fiercely loyal.

Getting rid of Laviolette this season - even if there are bruised egos in the locker room that want to blame the results on Laviolette - that's letting the players off way too easy.

[evan]

^^^
well said. i agree that the players all think they're safe because they won a cup and they're just a little too comfortable with where they are. they've become too content. I hope they can bring in fresh blood that brings with them something the Hurricanes had before: higher expectations.

[apolinar]

I'm so desperate I'm stripping my jersey of the caniac moniker. I don't deserve it. Missed lots of games. Booed more than I cheered. it's time to trade this fan to Phoenix.:cry:

[Guyute]

Booed more than I cheered.
That's hardly YOUR fault my friend.

[Squeaky]

We're talking about a Coach and System that won us the Cup.
Asking him to adapt or change... to what?? Instead of a puck pursuit system go back to a (Mo) trapping system? Lavi is one of the better coaches in the league. Throw him away and we Are throwing in the towel for a few years.

Plenty of winning coaches have lost teams.

But I did not say his system is flawed. But, not matching up lines and trying to just play your game when the other team takes advantage of it is questionable. Not adjusting play to how the ref's have changed some of their calls could also be argued. Not lloking at how the other top scoring teams have someone in front of the goal on PP's when we barely ever manage it need changing (especially given recent results).

But how he motivates the team, how he gets them to play the system that seemd to work two years ago, and in October, and sporadically the rest of the time is an issue. Is it too taxing on the players such that it can't be played every game?? I do not know.

But the players aren't following the method of success like they did in 05, nor like they did in October. They do not have as aggressive a fore check, nor do they break out well--is it lack of talent?? Is it failure to follow the system, or is the break out flawed?? If it is a flawed system, or players not following the system, a player change would not help. Different coaching could.

You always have to coach to what you have and the skill of the players/ who you have based on injuries or trade. You adapt. That is coaching. If the break out isn't working, plenty of other teams have less talent and less problems--so maybe some different approaches are required.

Whether someone won in the past with a systm that worked then does not mean it will always work. Teams and players adapt. Coaches need to react and change/modify as well.

Again, unless the players aren't listening and then what do you do?

[KaniacFever]

But the players aren't following the method of success like they did in 05, nor like they did in October. They do not have as aggressive a fore check, nor do they break out well--is it lack of talent?? Is it failure to follow the system, or is the break out flawed?? If it is a flawed system, or players not following the system, a player change would not help. Different coaching could.


According to Brind'Amour it "isn't the system" but more the players.

“We could sit here and talk about every part of our game, but the commitment level from each guy — you can’t go looking around the room and saying, ‘This part of our system’s not working,’ ” Hurricanes captain Rod Brind’Amour said.

“It comes down to each guy putting enough fight in our game. When everyone’s off this is what happens: We don’t do anything offensively and we give up too many good scoring chances.”

[toastmasterbone]

1) Have a team-building thing. Invite all the dads, get everyone crawling under live ammunition fire, that sort of thing.

2) Come back and play a game, un-showered, but shorten the bench so that Staal and Williams ride the pine. Give 'em the Modano-USA hockey treatment. (Yes, #1 and #2 combined will make Eric and Justin a bit schizophrenic, but that's how I roll.)

3) Offer prizes for good games. Bring Alec Baldwin in to do the Glengarry Glen Ross thing: "As you all know, first prize is a Cadillac Eldorado. Anybody want to see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired."

4) Trade if nothing else works. Everyone is on the short list.

And all of this has to happen within 2 weeks.

[hyena]

got a brain fart question but what's a 'bag skate practice? do you mean they don't skate and they get an arse chewing? okay-I've asked my ignoramous question for the week.

A punishment practice -- usually the Coach will make them skate until they are exhausted.

And yeah, I don't think we've ever heard of Lavi doing it, have we?

[Mona2006]

^^^I do see what Brindy is saying. Last night we had excellent chances even halfway into the 2nd... we were pounding Gerbs and he was leaving those juicy rebounds for our taking.. but then a player would fall, whiff or break/drop a stick and the scoring chance went bye bye. But the fire was still there. Then it was like the faucet was turned off and the whole team just went into "coast" mode. Some of the goals Cam didn't even look like he saw them coming..and they were straight on. I want this fog lifted NOW!!

[Guyute]

Cam seemed to be struggling to see/find the puck all night. From drop to horn.

[RIO]

Tanabe. ;)

WHOAWHOAWHOA, where did THAT come from?! You and your irrational wacky outbursts! Man, CONTROL yourself! You're making a scene!


My first act as GM: Mandatory nudity. For everyone. Nudity bridges divides among many cultures. :smoke: It also bridges divides. And some may say, bridges divides.

But I digress.

Back on topic.

My first act as GM: Mandatory nudity.

[RangersCanesFan]

I confess, I don't see or get to see as many Canes games as I have in the past. That being said, I'm not so sure what's going on right now isn't going on in 29 other lockerrooms. Every team seems to have struggled (save for Detroit) or is currently struggling in some way. I don't know what it is, but I really haven't seen a bad hockey team this year. I've seen a lot of teams that can outwork any other on any given night.

What this means is, teams have to bring the lunchpail 82 times. Unfortunately, that's just not going to happen. Couple that with broken sticks going for loose pucks, bad, unlucky bounces, and just dumb luck, teams get stuck in slumps. Guys have to step it up, no doubt, and they can't quit. If that happens, then it's time for benchings.

Lavi should just refocus the team on doing the simple things. Kind of like the way they played the Rangers. Granted, the Rangers were disinterested that night, but you'd think the Canes should have been able to get some confidence out of that game.

If this turns into a big time, 5 in a row, and fall out of first losing streak, then it's time to do something drastic.

[Guyute]

The problem is, the way in which we're losing (most) games, is horrendous.

Going back to the beginning of November...
These are the finals for the losses:
5-1, 6-1, 3-0, 6-3, 5-2, 3-1, 8-1, 2-1, 5-2, 6-0

Only one that was a 1g loss. Only one that was a 2g loss. 4 3g losses, and the rest were Severe poundings.
Those are not close games. Those are "where are these guys??" games.

[nccanes]

That's what I was getting at RCF -- that there are SO few "great" teams and most teams go thru this during the season. The Sens lost 7 in a row and now they've won 3. No one looked at that team last night and could imagine that anyone was ever "worried".

If the Canes were to go on a 7-3 or 8-2 run or better, we'd all begin to breath easy. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't tank in the next 10 though. It's hard to be a "great" team. The question of course, is WILL they go 7-3 or 8-2? That remains to be seen. As I've said before, it's just as likely to happen as not.

We have to just stop banging our heads on the walls about the lost magic of 05-06 I think. Very few teams are ever that consistent.

[andyt]

got a brain fart question but what's a 'bag skate practice? do you mean they don't skate and they get an arse chewing? okay-I've asked my ignoramous question for the week.

A punishment practice -- usually the Coach will make them skate until they are exhausted.

And yeah, I don't think we've ever heard of Lavi doing it, have we?

To expand on Hyena's answer...If you've ever seen Miracle, the skating at the end of the game against Norway...that's a bag skate.

Mo had a bag skate here that didn't end until Craig MacDonald puked.

[Guyute]

Cue the CMac jokes...

:lol:

[KaniacFever]

My ignorant question about a Bag skate. Wouldn't that do more harm than good. I mean wouldn't the players really disconnect themselves from the coach more.

[CajunCaniac]

Take a look at goals allowed... We've given up 100 goals in 32 games. Only Atlanta (101) and Los Angeles (103) have given up more. Cam has had a roller coaster year. He started off hot, then got ICE cold, and had been starting to heat up a bit until last night. Crackers, on the other hand, has just been plain bad IMO. With Gerber, playing this up and down style worked because he was able to steal some games by making amazing saves when the breakdowns happened.

We need defensive help, but I think until we get a more consistent play in goal, we are in for a long year. And by long year, I mean a short year...

[evan]

I know Ward has had some bad games, but IMO we've wasted a lot more solid goaltending performances. Ward played a lot better when he didn't think he had to be perfect. I think a little goal support goes a long way for the mentality of a young goalie.

[andyt]

My ignorant question about a Bag skate. Wouldn't that do more harm than good. I mean wouldn't the players really disconnect themselves from the coach more.

I agree. I don't know how it does any good at all. The bag skate depicted in Miracle really did happen, but there was some dramatic license taken with it. If you've got a team that is playing poorly and knows it's playing poorly, I don't see how skating them into the ground (or ice) is helpful. But what do I know? I never played hockey and I'm certainly not a pro athlete.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Every team seems to have struggled (save for Detroit) or is currently struggling in some way. I don't know what it is, but I really haven't seen a bad hockey team this year. I've seen a lot of teams that can outwork any other on any given night.

Well said. I think some fans are too quick to forget there is another team on the ice.



BTW, just so it isn't stated as pure, outright fact, it's debatable whether Lavi lost the players on the Isle or not.


And sort of touching on something CajunCaniac was saying.... Everyone wants to talk about putting a solid 60 minutes together. This team wasn't doing that consistently in 05-06! How many times were our wins comebacks? Our goaltending got us through some of that then.

[puck_it]

I agree. I don't know how it does any good at all. The bag skate depicted in Miracle really did happen, but there was some dramatic license taken with it. If you've got a team that is playing poorly and knows it's playing poorly, I don't see how skating them into the ground (or ice) is helpful. But what do I know? I never played hockey and I'm certainly not a pro athlete.

it stops the, "it's ok its one loss there's 82 games in a season!" run em into the ice to punish them if tehy keep having that attitude. points lost are points lost whether it's game 1 or 82. It's an extra motivator to not be bone heads and to play hard.

different coaches have different philosophies, of course.

[nccanes]

and I think different players and locker rooms would react differently to a punishment skate. I would think with a young team, when you are playing games that don't really matter (like the USA/Finland thing or when my kid plays club soccer but the real success is in the state cup) then it can be used. But I'm not sure a true Mo-style skate is helpful very often at all.

I think we've read that at a given practice there was "more skating", but I don't recall a practice that was w/o pucks and truly punishment.

[puck_it]

well, yeah, Keenan isnt in raleigh yet!

[Caniac]

<shudder>

[Captain Slack]

DON'T EVERY SAY THAT AGAIN!!! :faint:

[SoCalcaniac]

BTW, just so it isn't stated as pure, outright fact, it's debatable whether Lavi lost the players on the Isle or not.



Thank YOU. It's verrrry debatable.

It drives me crazy to this day that the media will sometimes throw that out like it's a fact, when it has been documented that the Isles room was some kind of fractured dysfunctional mess with all kinds of factions; apparently including the Yashin Anti-Lavi crew or whoever they were. Time has passed and all that stuff, but I hate that there's this belief that is now being passed off as fact, that Lavi lost his team on LI. Ted Nolan's a good coach, but imo, they'll rue the day they fired Laviolette.

/shutting up............ :lol:

I leave the GM thing to you guys- it all makes my head hurt so I'm not even trying.

[puck_it]

well, he'll be here in a few hours. get ready for a disturbance in the force. figured Lavi might let him take the helm for the pregame skate. who better to run a bag skate?

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Calgary has scored 8 goals on TB tonight. Maybe he can teach us how to manage that.

[perfectstorm]

.... make that 9.

[evan]

well, he'll be here in a few hours. get ready for a disturbance in the force. figured Lavi might let him take the helm for the pregame skate. who better to run a bag skate?

At least then they can see what it could be like if you let Lavi lose his job!

[gocanes0506]

I think I would move Cole to team for winger and dman. Maybe Nashville, from hamhuis and radulov. We will probably have to put in one of our young dmen to even out the deal. I would move Kaberle to TOR to play with his brother. We may be able to pawn him off for a good return because we all know how much TOR loves older veterans. Maybe get steen or stajan in return.

Could have something in the line of

Stillman-Staal-Radulov
Whitney-Brindy-Williams
Steen-Cullen-Walker
Larose-Hamilton-Adams

have ladd be in the minors and grow. Would take over Stillman's spot in the roster after next season.

Commie-Hedi
Gleason-Hamhuis
Wallin-Wesley

we would have tanabe and seidenburg in reserves for next season.

[evan]

my only fear of trading cole (aside from being one of the only players left with any intensity) is the fact that he has been a part of just about every productive line this team has had since the days of the BBC in 2002. I think it's because even when he's not producing, he's skating his a$$ off and hitting to open up things for the likes of Staal and Stillman, and now Whitney and Cullen. IMO he should be on the short list of untouchables which would also include Staal and Brindy. I'd rather trade Williams than Cole.

[nccanes]

I was the first person to bring up the NY Islanders in regard to Laviolette.

My point was that it resulted in Laviolette leaving before he 'deserved' to in many people's opinions. To me it matters less why he left, just that there was a situation where he became the scapegoat. There was a definite rift, but who was on what side (players, other players, coaches, management) will probably be debated forever. The result was that Laviolette was gone. I don't want to see that happen.

edit: I think my comment is not the one being referred to here....I think mine was in a different thread anyway. Nevermind. :beatup:

[Mona2006]

I know Ward has had some bad games, but IMO we've wasted a lot more solid goaltending performances. Ward played a lot better when he didn't think he had to be perfect. I think a little goal support goes a long way for the mentality of a young goalie.

I agree on this too. In some games, the other team will score quickly (no big surprise..lol) but then Cam will play stellar and keep the puck out the rest of the way...and we can't even manage to get the puck in the net once.

If I witness more of that "lollygagging " BS from the 3rd period on Wednesday night tonight, you will see me going over the boards to kick some Canes arse myself. :D :lol:

[andyt]

I agree on this too. In some games, the other team will score quickly (no big surprise..lol) but then Cam will play stellar and keep the puck out the rest of the way...and we can't even manage to get the puck in the net once.

If I witness more of that "lollygagging " BS from the 3rd period on Wednesday night tonight, you will see me going over the boards to kick some Canes arse myself. :D :lol:

That's the exact word I was thinking during most of the game.

With apologies to Bull Durham...

Lavi: You guys. You lollygag the puck around the ice. You lollygag your way out of the zone. You lollygag on and off of the bench. You know what that makes you? Jake!
Jake: Lollygaggers!
Lavi: Lollygaggers.

[BrindAmourFan]

If I witness more of that "lollygagging " BS from the 3rd period on Wednesday night tonight, you will see me going over the boards to kick some Canes arse myself. :D :lol:

Seriously! C'mon, ladies, let's suit up. :evil:

Speaking for myself only, I know I have the sense not to just stand there and let the guy with the puck just skate right on through me like I wasn't even there. Yeah, CAds, I'm looking at you, boy.

[wheels76]

we need a offensive minded Dman or two, I wish we could of kept Hutch and gotten rid of kaberle with the Cully trade. we only have 5 goals from our D....that is hideous.

I personally would see what I could get for Cole, or Ladd. i dont see anyone caring for adams or letowski. Cole plays hard in spruts and looked better lately, but his body language is awful. somebody PLEASE remind him that he's getting paid MILLIONS to play the sport he loves.
i dont think ladd's rugged game matches the tempo that lavi likes to play. seems like the game is moving to fast for him at times.

other observations from this armchair GM:
yank a knot in JWill for his mind-numbing penalties.....he is becoming the new Sean Hill.
give Cullen more ice time, an extra 2-3 shifts a game for him is well deserved...i know that cuts into Rod and Staal's time, but Cully is making plays right now.
when Commy comes back, I dont think Tanabe is the odd man out every game, kaberle can be a healthy scratch every now and then till he can take his thong off and start playing some hockey. right now tanabe is skating better than frank and has showed more offensive flashes than flat foot frank.
tell LaRose you love his attitude, work ethic, and enthusiasm, but drop all the antics acting like you are gonna fight. all he's gonna do is piss someone off and get one of our players hurt having to fight for him, cause Chad would surely be pummeled. he can be the agitator we need by using his speed, and energy, not his shoves and mouth.
tell c.adams to concentrate on hitting anyone who has the puck near him in lieu of skating past him, dump the puck and work hard in the corners to keep posession, and just camp in front of the net for screens, tips, and rebounds. that is his game, not trying to lead the rush and puck handling.
lastly, find a way to get Staal on track, line changes, PP, double shifting, whatver. we will not go very far w/out him playing to his abilities.

that is all i've got. i tend to armchair coach/GM way too much.....this thread is perfect for me. lol.