Silly Season!

[superdave]

Originally Posted by MoBigRed

Tlusty/Staal/Winger "X"
Ruutu/Sutter/Skinner
LaRose/Welsh/Jokinen
Nodl/Brent/Dwyer

I think the Canes need to add more size and toughness than this lineup has. I like every line you have listed, but not as a group in total.

Originally Posted by Convert

If we do get a scoring winger, not sure I see Tlusty staying on the top line. Might be a better role from Jussi, if he shows his play from a year or two ago v. his play this year.

Jussi may end up with Staal, but that shuffles somebody else out lower.

[MoBigRed]

Originally Posted by superdave

I think the Canes need to add more size and toughness than this lineup has. I like every line you have listed, but not as a group in total.

Me too. I'm just not sure i see them doing it.

Originally Posted by superdave

Jussi may end up with Staal, but that shuffles somebody else out lower.

Agreed. Jokinen and Tlusty could easily switch lines, depending on what happens with PlayerX. One thing i do dislike about the lines being suggested, though, is that Bowman isn't on them. Send him back to Charlotte for another season and he may be next year's Samson/Boychuk.

Of course everything changes if we go extended periods with Skinner, Ruutu, and/or Jokinen on IR...

[superdave]

Originally Posted by MoBigRed

One thing i do dislike about the lines being suggested, though, is that Bowman isn't on them. Send him back to Charlotte for another season and he may be next year's Samson/Boychuk.

It bothers me that we aren't seeing any of Samson/Boychuk/Bowman/Dalpe in a future roll with the Canes and what that says for our player selection and development. JR has cornered the market on smallish players that are almost good enough.

[MoBigRed]

Originally Posted by superdave

It bothers me that we aren't seeing any of Samson/Boychuk/Bowman/Dalpe in a future roll with the Canes and what that says for our player selection and development. JR has cornered the market on smallish players that are almost good enough.

Another thing that bothers me about it is the Daniels factor. I was one of those who was a bit surprised he was passed over as the new coach (not disappointed, mind you, just surprised), but was under the impression that it was because it was better to have him in the AHL prepping the kids - as you say, player 'development'. Can't help noticing, though, that most of the kids who have found a home in Raleigh were ones who pretty much skipped Daniels altogether. That's not necessarily a knock on Daniels, as he can only work with what he's given, but it does kind of leave me scratching my head.

At the same time, though, if the truth of the matter is that JD's been given a cast of clowns to work with all along, then he sure caught lightning with them last year.

[ontheboards]

Originally Posted by superdave

It bothers me that we aren't seeing any of Samson/Boychuk/Bowman/Dalpe in a future roll with the Canes and what that says for our player selection and development. JR has cornered the market on smallish players that are almost good enough.

In his press conference, JR stated he was very disappointed with the development of Boychuk and Dalpe. Boychuk's numbers were better last year than this year for the same number of games played. My impression of Boychuk was that he took things a bit too lightly initially and seems to be more of a guy who wants to get by rather than go balls to the wall per se. Dalpe's development stalling seems more of the conundrum to me and I wonder if he's hit a wall in his development. Given we used Joslin on the 4th line for a good part of the remainder of the season, I think that should speak volumes about this team needing grit and size that wasn't coming from Charlotte.

[nccanes]

I love all this discussion because it's such an interesting few years in regard to the AHL "developing" players.

As I've admitted before, I've never been a Boychuk fan (for completely stupid, unscientific, fan-like, reasons). Not everyone can be oozing with personality but anyway -- I can't imagine him continuing with this club -- it just seems time to make a new start for him and the Canes.

Dalpe on the other hand, is generally more likeable, and a much easier guy to pull for (for me anyway). So I hope there is some way to have a postive step forward with him next year.

Having said all that, if we go back to when Muller moved Joslin to a F position and his comments then: 'not plugging someone in if they don't deserve it', seems to imply that there wasn't anyone (other than Bowman) that even deserved a sniff up here based on their play in CLT.

Will be very interesting to see what happens.

And on an unrelated note....Anthony Stewart. Nothing that happens with him would surprise me, but I do feel like pointing out that he certainly seems to have been the one to take the younger/new guys under his wing here. I realize those are also the same people that all happen to be on twitter (Dalpe when he was here, McBain, Faulk, Joslin, Brent), but I don't think I ever recall any of them tweeting about anyone else (of the old guard), by mentioning them by name (even if they weren't on twitter). Again with the over-analyzing, but back in the Laviolette days, didn't it seem like Mrs. Rutherford (whatever her name is) was quoted about how tight the team was off the ice and how that was encouraged by Laviolette? You don't tend to hear much about that kind of thing now. Maybe that's something that a full Muller offseason and training camp can re-introduce. Can't hurt.

/putting armchair psychologist hat down!

[superdave]

Originally Posted by nccanes

I love all this discussion because it's such an interesting few years in regard to the AHL "developing" players.

We've been told (and I've believed it) just how the Canes have been restocking the system with guys that are going to be able to come in and contribute. Skinner and Faulk weren't developed in Charlotte. McBain spent about a season on Albany and made the jump as did Sutter. Other than McBain and Sutter, I don't really see anybody that came up through the system. Boychuk was supposed to be the real deal a couple of years ago and I remember hearing how Dalpe was going to be a top liner this year.

I was shocked when Daniels wasn't brought in as Canes coach, but I'm certainly glad JR went outside his comfort zone. I don't know if the problem is Daniels and the staff or in the players he has to work with. It seems like we have a lot of Keith Aucoins, smallish players that are skilled and almost NHLers.

On the big squad, we have a lot of cloned players too. Everybody loves LaRose and what he brings, and every team needs a guy like that. The same thing goes for Nodl and Dwyer. You can make a case for each guy, but all three?

[DJHARLEY]

I really hope that as far a defense goes we get rid of our so-called offensive d-men(Pits & McBain) and get someone that can actually play defense along with Faulk and Gleason. Maybe if the number of shots on the goalie are dropped down our goalies wont have to make so many stops. Since Muller likes the accountablity aspect make the d-men accountable for defense and the O-men accountable for scoring. Yes the O-men have to help in the D-zone and the D-men have to help in the O-zone but as a team make them mesh more than they seem to now on the ice. The Canes have to pick up their physical style of play also because IMO teams know they can just skate into their scoreing end without much contact. To me that makes it too easy to set up their offense and get way to many shots on goal. If they can't just skate it in its much harder to get set up!!

[Convert]

Originally Posted by superdave

We've been told (and I've believed it) just how the Canes have been restocking the system with guys that are going to be able to come in and contribute. Skinner and Faulk weren't developed in Charlotte. McBain spent about a season on Albany and made the jump as did Sutter. Other than McBain and Sutter, I don't really see anybody that came up through the system. Boychuk was supposed to be the real deal a couple of years ago and I remember hearing how Dalpe was going to be a top liner this year.

I was shocked when Daniels wasn't brought in as Canes coach, but I'm certainly glad JR went outside his comfort zone. I don't know if the problem is Daniels and the staff or in the players he has to work with. It seems like we have a lot of Keith Aucoins, smallish players that are skilled and almost NHLers.

On the big squad, we have a lot of cloned players too. Everybody loves LaRose and what he brings, and every team needs a guy like that. The same thing goes for Nodl and Dwyer. You can make a case for each guy, but all three?

One thing to remember is that none of the guys in Charlotte are early "surefire" picks.

Boychuk was the 14th pick (canes)
Sanguinetti was the 21st pick (Rangers)
Nash was the 21st pick (for Edmonton)
Dalpe was 2nd round
Bowman was 3rd round
Samson was undrafted
Terry was 5th round
etc.

So Boychuk may be the only one that qualifies as a true disappointment. Sanguinetti is injury prone and Nash is looking like a depth guy.

The other guys look promising, but none are expected to be superstars. Dalpe had a lot of hype this year, but I think injuries early and then nagging ones impacted him.

I think a big difference is all of these guys do feel on the edge--could make it or could stay as AHL level guys--whereas in the past, we had no organizational depth at all to talk about. So its frustrating not seeing them step up---but the reality is there peak level may be similar to all the other guys we have (2nd/3rd/4th liners)

Dalpe still feels like the possible exception, but he has not played like it this year.

[caniac97]

Originally Posted by DJHARLEY

I really hope that as far a defense goes we get rid of our so-called offensive d-men(Pits & McBain) and get someone that can actually play defense along with Faulk and Gleason. Maybe if the number of shots on the goalie are dropped down our goalies wont have to make so many stops. Since Muller likes the accountablity aspect make the d-men accountable for defense and the O-men accountable for scoring. Yes the O-men have to help in the D-zone and the D-men have to help in the O-zone but as a team make them mesh more than they seem to now on the ice. The Canes have to pick up their physical style of play also because IMO teams know they can just skate into their scoreing end without much contact. To me that makes it too easy to set up their offense and get way to many shots on goal. If they can't just skate it in its much harder to get set up!!

we just signed another o-minded d-man in Doumolin(sp)!

[StormChaserBH]

Dumoulin was +40 and +23 his last 2 seasons at BC and it wasn't all offense. He projects as a good all-arounder capable of starting the rush with a good first pass, not your typical marginally responsible "offensive defenseman" -- think Hedican in his Carolina years for an off-the-cuff comparison.

[andyt]

Originally Posted by StormChaserBH

Dumoulin was +40 and +23 his last 2 seasons at BC and it wasn't all offense. He projects as a good all-arounder capable of starting the rush with a good first pass, not your typical marginally responsible "offensive defenseman" -- think Hedican in his Carolina years for an off-the-cuff comparison.

But bigger and more physical. Dumoulin is 6'4", 225 lbs.

[MoBigRed]

Must admit c97's post kind of surprised me. Just yesterday i was telling my wife 'sweet, JR finally signed a young defensive defenseman with some size!'.

[nccanes]

Yeah, i think the Hedican comparison was a good one (not that I've seen more than a bit of Dumoulin personally) based on what we've heard.

I think Hedican offensive side came from smart play and talent, not that he was ever really expected to put up numbers nor have any big kind of green light to rove around sniffing points. I know when he first arrived here from FLA he talked about being relieved of those kind of expectations and just go play his game.

If Dumoulin can be that kind of player and with size, wonderful.

[caniac97]

Originally Posted by MoBigRed

Must admit c97's post kind of surprised me. Just yesterday i was telling my wife 'sweet, JR finally signed a young defensive defenseman with some size!'.

all the press releases call him a "offensive minded defenseman" but if he is more like a Hedican then I for one am ok with that, always liked the way he played.

[StormChaserBH]

Originally Posted by andyt

But bigger and more physical. Dumoulin is 6'4", 225 lbs.

Yup, should have mentioned that also; was rushing to react to the off-hand rejection of him as just an offensive guy. My comparison to Hedican was that he was also a true all-arounder, and certainly considered helpful on the offense, but it came more from a good first pass and his skating skill, not because he had sick hands, a booming shot, or a roaming mindset.

[Captain Stinky]

someone earlier in this string had Sutter centering Ruutu and Skinner -- is it indeed time to take him off the shutdown line and take advantage of his speed and scoring ability? i have bee waiting for some time now to see him on a line with one or two finishers, could be interesting. that said, do we then need to go out and find a shutdown center, or is brent going to move up, and maybe welsh becomes the fourth line center?

[superdave]

Originally Posted by Captain Stinky

someone earlier in this string had Sutter centering Ruutu and Skinner -- is it indeed time to take him off the shutdown line and take advantage of his speed and scoring ability? i have bee waiting for some time now to see him on a line with one or two finishers, could be interesting. that said, do we then need to go out and find a shutdown center, or is brent going to move up, and maybe welsh becomes the fourth line center?

I've been wondering about this myself. Sutter definitely has the straight line speed to get the defense on their heels and he has developed a scoring touch. While I get the point of the "shutdown" line, I also see the need for more "scoring" lines.

[Convert]

I just feel like you can't afford a pure shutdown line unless you have one dominant line (ideally your top line) and one consistent scoring line (2nd).

This year, we lacked both most of the time. There were times when Skins and Finns were dominant, but then the top line wasn't producing..and vice versa.

if we get that top line winger, then a shutdown line with limited offense may be viable. But otherwise, we need some level of scoring from all lines.

[KaniacFever]

Originally Posted by Captain Stinky

someone earlier in this string had Sutter centering Ruutu and Skinner -- is it indeed time to take him off the shutdown line and take advantage of his speed and scoring ability? i have bee waiting for some time now to see him on a line with one or two finishers, could be interesting. that said, do we then need to go out and find a shutdown center, or is brent going to move up, and maybe welsh becomes the fourth line center?

From what i've gathered during the post season presser was that the idea is to move Sutter to center the 2nd line and use Welsh as the 3rd line center.

[andyt]

Originally Posted by KaniacFever

From what i've gathered during the post season presser was that the idea is to move Sutter to center the 2nd line and use Welsh as the 3rd line center.

I'm hard pressed to believe that Walsh will move straight from college to centering the 3rd line.

[IceSun]

Any thoughts on Brent moving up to 3rd? He's been solid on the 4th line and PP

[caniac97]

Originally Posted by andyt

I'm hard pressed to believe that Walsh will move straight from college to centering the 3rd line.

Maybe I am too optimistic but from what I saw the game he played I would take that chance.

[nccanes]

Originally Posted by andyt

I'm hard pressed to believe that Walsh will move straight from college to centering the 3rd line.

Same here.

Originally Posted by caniac97

Maybe I am too optimistic but from what I saw the game he played I would take that chance.

Well, at least they'll have more than 1 game from which to draw their conclusions. This kid has to go thru off season training, presumably the rookie conditioning camp (+Traverse City if they do that again), Camp Brind'Amour (if he knows what's good for him) and then Training Camp and then Pre-season exhibition games.

I would be pretty disappointed for them to roll the dice all summer with that presumption....especially with the Dalpe and Boychuk predictions that panned out so poorly. They don't exactly have a great track record in this regard.

I suppose "the prospects" could all compete for that slot (Dalpe, Nash, Welsh). That would be a lot more palatable if they actually land this "big name" to go along side Staal.

[KaniacFever]

Originally Posted by andyt

I'm hard pressed to believe that Walsh will move straight from college to centering the 3rd line.

Well from my understanding they are really high on the kid and are going to give him every opportunity to be the 3rd line center. Whether its a good idea or not, that's to be seen.