The Jordan Staal Saga

[superdave]

There is a little that we know, like JStaal wanted an increased role and that he turned down a $60M, guaranteed deal. There is a lot that we don't know, like has JStaal made it known behind the scenes that he intends to come to Raleigh? Is he tired of Pittsburgh (and who wouldn't be)? Did he send a top secret message through his dad, Henry, who passed it along to their surrogate son Tripp, that got through to JR?

Tampering...please. This type of behind the scenes stuff takes place at all times, and there is a sibling on the team? Brothers talk you know.

I think JR was trying to make something happen this year and not wait a year. Yes, he could have hung on to Sutter, Dumoulin and the pick and taken a chance. A lot can happen in a year. If JStaal was unhappy in Pittsburgh and JR knew it, he makes a play now and doesn't take the chance of it changing.

The "tampering" could be as little as this:

EStaal knocks on JR's door and sits down. "JR, Jordan is fed up with the Pens and all the Crosby drama and looking at that horseface Malkin. How about saving a little cash to sign baby bro next summer".

[caveman]

All I know is that when a deal is signed, my relief will be palpable. And it might actually glow in the dark. And that until then I'm going to suffer.

[nickgregory]

honest question...FA comes and goes...WAY too much money gets spent and JR refrains because he is not going to strap the team with ridiculous contracts...would anyone have been happy going into next year with the same team and maybe Doumolin joining the defense?

[caniac97]

Originally Posted by KaniacFever

Caught Pierre McGuire on XM this morning. He said that Rangers and Minnesota were putting in offers for Jordan so JR had to throw in Dumoulin to get the deal done. So we overpaid, but if we didn't Jordan was either headed to Rangers or Minny. And whose to say he wouldn't have re-signed with one of those teams. Both teams have money to spend and can offer Jordan a bigger role, Rangers have Marc as their clutch. So maybe we could have held out and hoped for July 1st, but I don't think our chances were that great in the long run.

Pierre also gave major credit to JR and Shero in how they handled the whole situation. Said JR could have offered nothing good and waited it out, but since he feels he can get Jordan re-signed to a long term deal, he made a hockey deal that works out well for both teams.


ETA: A new deal can't officially be announced until July 1st anyway. Let the guy have his honeymoon.

Thank you!

[caniac97]

Originally Posted by caveman

All I know is that when a deal is signed, my relief will be palpable. And it might actually glow in the dark. And that until then I'm going to suffer.

you have to give things time to develop, it won't happen overnight and definitely NOT while he is on his honeymoon. He is too busy playing a different kind of "hockey".

[caniac97]

Originally Posted by nickgregory

honest question...FA comes and goes...WAY too much money gets spent and JR refrains because he is not going to strap the team with ridiculous contracts...would anyone have been happy going into next year with the same team and maybe Doumolin joining the defense?

Not me, I would be pissed after all the hype of getting better to end up with the same ole same ole.

[superdave]

Quote from Jordan in a TSN.ca article...

"It's not too often just to have brothers in the NHL, but to play alongside one is a very special thing," Staal said. "If I did sign that 10-year extension with Pittsburgh, that opportunity to play with Eric would dwindle a lot, and that was a little part of why I didn't do that. It's a very exciting time for myself and Eric and our family. ... It's going to be a very neat time in my career."

This sounds like a guy that JR should be able to work out a deal with.

[wa10]

Is there some kind of moratorium between the draft and July 1st to sign your own players? Seems like that handcuffs teams who make trades at the draft. Seems like in the past there have been trades of UFA's around the draft just so a particular team had the right to negotiate with a player before July 1. I'm probably mis-remembering that. Still, he's our player now. We can't negotiate with him? Maybe we can't file the paperwork until July 1 but surely we can talk to him now (this is all general questioning. I understand he is on his honeymoon and would not expect him to negotiate until his return (although I don't see why we wouldn't be talking to his agent)).

[wa10]

I'm also still curious about this $60m deal from Pitt. Maybe we had the framework of a deal in place and this last-ditch-effort from Shero wasn't a way to throw that whole deal in the trash.

Not quite the Federov "screw you" we gave Detroit but maybe a way to screw up our plans a bit.

[superdave]

Originally Posted by wa10

I'm also still curious about this $60m deal from Pitt. Maybe we had the framework of a deal in place and this last-ditch-effort from Shero wasn't a way to throw that whole deal in the trash.

That was just a way to show the fanbase that he tried to keep Staal. Once Staal turned that down, nobody was going to question him making the trade.

[caniac97]

Originally Posted by wa10

Is there some kind of moratorium between the draft and July 1st to sign your own players? Seems like that handcuffs teams who make trades at the draft. Seems like in the past there have been trades of UFA's around the draft just so a particular team had the right to negotiate with a player before July 1. I'm probably mis-remembering that. Still, he's our player now. We can't negotiate with him? Maybe we can't file the paperwork until July 1 but surely we can talk to him now (this is all general questioning. I understand he is on his honeymoon and would not expect him to negotiate until his return (although I don't see why we wouldn't be talking to his agent)).

I am not sure why we can't file paperwork until then (unless it has something to do with an extension vs new contract), but we can negotiate with him. I think this is more about the honeymoon than anything else.

[KaniacFever]

Originally Posted by wa10

Is there some kind of moratorium between the draft and July 1st to sign your own players? Seems like that handcuffs teams who make trades at the draft. Seems like in the past there have been trades of UFA's around the draft just so a particular team had the right to negotiate with a player before July 1. I'm probably mis-remembering that. Still, he's our player now. We can't negotiate with him? Maybe we can't file the paperwork until July 1 but surely we can talk to him now (this is all general questioning. I understand he is on his honeymoon and would not expect him to negotiate until his return (although I don't see why we wouldn't be talking to his agent)).

As Shero did, you can negotiate with said player, but the deal cannot be finalized/announced until July 1st.

JR has already said that he would start negotiating with Jordan the beginning of July.

Jordan is on his honeymoon so I wouldn't expect a deal announced on July 1st either. Jordan himself even said that when Shero offered him the 10 year deal, it was really hard for him to really think about anything else but his wedding.

Let the poor guy go on his honeymoon and spend some time with his new wife. When he's back, then start working out a deal. I have full confidence that a deal will be worked out and it'll be a long term deal. I mean he's gonna have Eric and his parents pressuring him to sign

[superdave]

Originally Posted by caniac97

I am not sure why we can't file paperwork until then (unless it has something to do with an extension vs new contract), but we can negotiate with him. I think this is more about the honeymoon than anything else.

By God, he should cancel the honeymoon and fly right to Raleigh so he can sign that contract and we can all be happy little Caniacs.

I choose not to worry about this aspect of the deal. JR made a move out of his comfort zone and brought in an elite level player. I can work with that.

[caveman]

Yeah, I'm totally suggesting he cancel his honeymoon. Exactly what I'm saying.

[caveman]

Originally Posted by superdave

Quote from Jordan in a TSN.ca article...



This sounds like a guy that JR should be able to work out a deal with.

When I read the quote yesterday, I read it as sounding like a guy who was up for at least a 1-year experiment, certainly.

[caniac97]

Originally Posted by KaniacFever

As Shero did, you can negotiate with said player, but the deal cannot be finalized/announced until July 1st.

JR has already said that he would start negotiating with Jordan the beginning of July.

Jordan is on his honeymoon so I wouldn't expect a deal announced on July 1st either. Jordan himself even said that when Shero offered him the 10 year deal, it was really hard for him to really think about anything else but his wedding.

Let the poor guy go on his honeymoon and spend some time with his new wife. When he's back, then start working out a deal. I have full confidence that a deal will be worked out and it'll be a long term deal. I mean he's gonna have Eric and his parents pressuring him to sign

That and he has to find a new house in Raleighwood with the new bride and decide if he lives near his bro or a little further out. you know important family stuff!!

[caniac97]

Originally Posted by caveman

Yeah, I'm totally suggesting he cancel his honeymoon. Exactly what I'm saying.

Given that you think this is a rental then that is pretty much what you are suggesting. You will only be able to rest if he fly's in today, signs at least a six year deal and I am thinking you figure $6mil is too much so the contract can be for no more than $4mil a year. Anything other than that is a bad deal.

[caveman]

Originally Posted by caniac97

Given that you think this is a rental then that is pretty much what you are suggesting.

That's another thing I'm not saying. I'm saying that without a contract negotiated before the trade, there is a real non-zero probability of it turning out to be a rental. That is 100% factually and indisputably true. I do not understand at all that it could be controversial in the slightest. I'm boggled that it can be disputed.

You will only be able to rest if he fly's in today, signs at least a six year deal and I am thinking you figure $6mil is too much so the contract can be for no more than $4mil a year. Anything other than that is a bad deal.

None of this has anything to do with reality or anything I've said. I've also not said one word about contract lengths or monetary values. FWIW I'm even ok with 4 years $40 mil, though that would be overpaying by a lot, I'd feel a lot better about that than out on a limb. And I don't care if a contract is signed tomorrow, July 1, July 31, or December 31. I really don't care. The fact that it wasn't a sign-and-trade is the problem, not the timetable or specifics.

I am not particularly ok with rolling dice on the franchise, which is exactly what this appears to be, short of some kind of "gentleman's arrangement" (itself not enforceable) prior to the trade.

[caniac97]

The only team that could sign him before the trade was Pittsburg and he said NO! Had that happened he would not have been on the market. Do you really think JR did this as a 1YR rental? At least give things a couple of weeks to settle down and get sorted out before you jump off that ledge. Sometimes in business you gotta roll the dice, so far JR has done pretty well with that. You can't micro manage this type of deal, you will never be happy. In the end he will get more than $4mil so if you want to go ahead and find that ledge then go for it. If you have followed hockey any length of time you know these deals happen all the time, I can't personally think of one that has blown up for any team.

[superdave]

Obviously, we aren't all going to agree on this, nor do we know what transpired behind the scenes. I'm glad to have JStaal on the team and he will definitely improve our top 6. I'll let the contract drama play itself out and will defer from grabbing my torch and pitchfork until next summer if JR botched this.

I will add this though, as I surf the net looking at articles on "winners and losers" for this year's draft, the Canes are listed as one of the top winners in most write ups.

[caniac97]

Originally Posted by caveman

The fact that it wasn't a sign-and-trade is the problem, not the timetable or specifics.

Had Shero signed him, why in the world would he have turned around and traded him? They were trying to lock him up for ten years.

[Jay]

I was listening to Marek vs Wyshnski, and Rob Rossi (a Pens beatwriter) was saying that notions of Pittsburgh winning the trade is insane -- "On Pittsburgh, as of Friday, there were 3 guys tracking to a HoF career: Crosby, Malkin, and Staal. He's the #1 center on any other team."

I tend to agree with him. I'm giddy.

(as a confession)
I was always afraid Jordan was better than Eric.

[caveman]

Originally Posted by caniac97

The only team that could sign him before the trade was Pittsburg and he said NO! Had that happened he would not have been on the market. Do you really think JR did this as a 1YR rental? At least give things a couple of weeks to settle down and get sorted out before you jump off that ledge. Sometimes in business you gotta roll the dice, so far JR has done pretty well with that. You can't micro manage this type of deal, you will never be happy. In the end he will get more than $4mil so if you want to go ahead and find that ledge then go for it. If you have followed hockey any length of time you know these deals happen all the time, I can't personally think of one that has blown up for any team.

There's so many things wrong with this reply that I don't know that I want to continue this...

1. I've been following hockey nearly religiously for 20 years. Please don't take this kind of condescending tone, it's unbecoming.
2. No, of course I don't think JR "did this as a 1YR rental". As I've said again and again, of course JR is going to do his best to sign him to another deal, and of course I hope he will succeed. And as I said, I expect him to succeed, because what I really think is that yes, there is a gentleman's agreement in the background.
3. Another kind of deal that does happen is a sign and trade, in which a team (here the Penguins) formally gives another team (here the Hurricanes) permission to negotiate a new deal, along with a trade, which both are contingent on the other. Here, there was both not time for this, and the time was of course not right for this w.r.t. Jordan's wedding plans, and so I completely understand that it couldn't be worked out. That's why you don't make the trade without either A. accepting the calculated risk or B. having a background deal.

As for trades with pending UFAs which didn't result in re-signing the UFA? They happen all the time.

[nccanes]

Originally Posted by caveman

When I read the quote yesterday, I read it as sounding like a guy who was up for at least a 1-year experiment, certainly.

If Jordan and his agent play hardball and don't get a deal done, and he decided to bolt next summer, that means he gave up 60 million dollars for a 6 month experiment, and one that might never be available again. I think things would have to completely imploded in the Staal family and the Canes to have Jordan tuck tail and run.

You are free to worry all you want until an extension is signed, but I can't imagine, with everything that we know about the Staals, how Eric's contracts have been nearly formalities, and that Jordan walked away from 60 mil for the chance to play with Eric, it seems completely unfathomable to think Jordan is suddenly going to play hard ball.

He knows JR gave up a lot to get him (and give Jordan exactly what he and Eric have wanted) and JR knows how to be fair.

I'd say sit tight until August 1st before we go all chicken little.

[caveman]

Originally Posted by caniac97

Had Shero signed him, why in the world would he have turned around and traded him? They were trying to lock him up for ten years.

A sign-and-trade has both the signing and the trading contingent upon each other. Or, as I said, the "signing" is a virtual handshake one.

And goodness, don't get me wrong. I'm thrilled to have Jordan Staal on the team. He's going to be fun to watch. I do think he can score 30 goals a year for a good while. I'm much more excited about our lineup going into camp than I was about to be.

It's a calculated risk, and I accept that. I just don't understand not recognizing and accepting the risk.