Dreger says Canes plan to go after Parise and Suter

[Convert]

Originally Posted by SouthernHockeyChick

Well, let's see.

• An organization that is widely considered one of the best and classiest and who knows how to treat their players.
• A town that is a fantastic place to raise a family, has unbelievable weather, a small town feel with most of the amenities of a big town, and a loyal, devoted and loud fanbase.
• A team with what most consider one of the top goalies in the league, top centers in the league, top young defensive centers in the league, top young defensemen in the league who may be in the running for this year's Calder, and last year's Calder winner.
• One of the most promising, talked-about young coaches in the league and a coaching staff and front office made up of respected former players and Hall of Famers.
• A team that two of the talked about names in free-agency this summer have already decided to re-sign for rather than test the waters.
• An expansion team that has had more success in their first decade plus of time in this city (3 Conference Finals, 2 trips to the Finals, and a Stanley Cup) than almost any other.

Yeah, my god, it's amazing we can get anyone to sign here.

Plus, the added bonus that Parise and Staal are good friends and Parise supposedly liked playing under MacLean.

Not everyone can be Detroit but we're not too damn shabby. The last thing in the world that I'm worried about is attracting players. Paying for them is a different matter.

Can we just quote this over and over....awesome.......you belong on the Canes Player Recruitment Committee.

[superdave]

Originally Posted by SouthernHockeyChick

Plus, the added bonus that Parise and Staal are good friends and Parise supposedly liked playing under MacLean.

I agree with what SHC said, and I don't think the friendship thing can be underestimated. With all things being equal, that may be the thing that makes a difference. Parise will get paid anywhere he goes and something will be the difference maker in his decision.

[DJHARLEY]

Originally Posted by SouthernHockeyChick

Well, let's see.

• An organization that is widely considered one of the best and classiest and who knows how to treat their players.
• A town that is a fantastic place to raise a family, has unbelievable weather, a small town feel with most of the amenities of a big town, and a loyal, devoted and loud fanbase.
• A team with what most consider one of the top goalies in the league, top centers in the league, top young defensive centers in the league, top young defensemen in the league who may be in the running for this year's Calder, and last year's Calder winner.
• One of the most promising, talked-about young coaches in the league and a coaching staff and front office made up of respected former players and Hall of Famers.
• A team that two of the talked about names in free-agency this summer have already decided to re-sign for rather than test the waters.
• An expansion team that has had more success in their first decade plus of time in this city (3 Conference Finals, 2 trips to the Finals, and a Stanley Cup) than almost any other.

Yeah, my god, it's amazing we can get anyone to sign here.

Plus, the added bonus that Parise and Staal are good friends and Parise supposedly liked playing under MacLean.

Not everyone can be Detroit but we're not too damn shabby. The last thing in the world that I'm worried about is attracting players. Paying for them is a different matter.

Yes but a organization that really is into spending top dollar money. I didn't say anthing about the area. I was talking about the Canes organization that doesn't usually spend " bigtime money" on trades or new signings! So yes your very last statement is what I was getting at, not sure why you brought up all those other thoughts or had to look at it like you did but thats just you being you!

[superdave]

Originally Posted by DJHARLEY

I was talking about the Canes organization that doesn't usually spend " bigtime money" on trades or new signings!

This is something that would concern me greatly if I was a top UFA looking at the Canes. Are they going to continue to spend and put the pieces on the bench to contend?

[nccanes]

Originally Posted by DJHARLEY

So yes your very last statement is what I was getting at, not sure why you brought up all those other thoughts or had to look at it like you did but thats just you being you!

Because your comment simply said that you didn't think people would sign here after the last 6 years. SHC listed the things that SHE thinks would have players considering signing here. Her post was 100% completely on topic and relevant to your post.

It goes without saying that UFAs are going to want to get paid. But SHC went thru the trouble of listing the OTHER things that go into consideration -- that actually work to our advantage.

[MoBigRed]

Originally Posted by DJHARLEY

I was talking about the Canes organization that doesn't usually spend " bigtime money" on trades or new signings!

I don't know - JR may not do on a regular basis, but i do think he shelled out a pretty penny for Ron Francis, made one hell of an attempt on Sergei Fedorov, brought in Tom Barrasso for decent money if i remember correctly, Stillman and Whitney in 2005, and more recently, Tomas Kaberle. Sure, maybe he doesn't do it to the same extent that some other teams do, but it's not unheard of - plus there's talk that he's actively pursuing such players this season and that PK has opened the purse for it - and that kind of talk often does point to something happening here.

[Convert]

Originally Posted by superdave

This is something that would concern me greatly if I was a top UFA looking at the Canes. Are they going to continue to spend and put the pieces on the bench to contend?

The one thing from SHC's post that addresses this, to some extent is:

A team with what most consider one of the top goalies in the league, top centers in the league, top young defensive centers in the league, top young defensemen in the league who may be in the running for this year's Calder, and last year's Calder winner.

That is 5 solid pieces and does not include a few of the other complementary assets (Gleason, Ruutu, Jussi, etc.)

If I was a UFA forward (Parise), I'd look at that and probably be interested. I might be concerned about the lack of a "protector" on the roster.

I think that JR managed the situation out of the last locked masterfully, creating a deep balanced lineup. As the cap grew, between his own preferences and budget limitations, he largely stayed that course (except for locking up Staal and Ward), but the situation has changed.

Most top teams seem to need at least 4, if not 5, top end payroll guys (Top Line Center and Wing, Top pair D-man, stud goalie (and maybe a second line scorer) and some young guys who are playing above their CBA mandated pay rates to be a consistent, versus fringe, playoff contender.

It "sounds" like JR, PK, and he rest of mgmt finally recognize this AND feel they are in a situation to raise the budget to do something about it.

We'll see what happens.

[andyt]

Originally Posted by MoBigRed

I don't know - JR may not do on a regular basis, but i do think he shelled out a pretty penny for Ron Francis, made one hell of an attempt on Sergei Fedorov, brought in Tom Barrasso for decent money if i remember correctly, Stillman and Whitney in 2005, and more recently, Tomas Kaberle. Sure, maybe he doesn't do it to the same extent that some other teams do, but it's not unheard of - plus there's talk that he's actively pursuing such players this season and that PK has opened the purse for it - and that kind of talk often does point to something happening here.

He got Stillman and Whitney on the cheap. Whitney had just been bought out and Stillman said that we were the only team interested. But don't forget, JR went right down to the wire with Paul Kariya that summer too, before Kariya ultimately signed with Nashville. Whitney was signed the day after Kariya signed with the Preds. I don't know if JR would have signed Whitney and Kariya.

The Federov thing was more of a way to stick it to Illitch than anything, IMO. There was a $12 million bonus clause in the contract that would only be payable if the team went to the conference finals. The 97-98 Canes weren't going to sniff the conference finals, while the Wings were the defending champions.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

Originally Posted by DJHARLEY

thats just you being you!

You mean examining the entire situation in context rather than just whatever isolated piece I want to pick out today? Yep, that's me.


You questioned whether a big name would "want" to come here based on our recent history. I gave you the reasons they would want to come here.

[DJHARLEY]

Originally Posted by SouthernHockeyChick

You mean examining the entire situation in context rather than just whatever isolated piece I want to pick out today? Yep, that's me.


You questioned whether a big name would "want" to come here based on our recent history. I gave you the reasons they would want to come here.

But most players "want" to go to where the money is the biggest and that isn't here in NC.( since the real big signings-Staal & Ward) Other than T kabs flop last year. We have let some players go because of money- we really could have benefited from them if they stayed!(Cole & Whitney) Parise has been around for a while and I'm sure he wants to go to a team that will be in a playoff run before he gets there. Suter not to sure of, but hopefully since he is young and has a connection with Muller he would consider the points that you brought up.

[caniac97]

Originally Posted by DJHARLEY

But most players "want" to go to where the money is the biggest and that isn't here in NC.( since the real big signings-Staal & Ward) Other than T kabs flop last year. We have let some players go because of money- we really could have benefited from them if they stayed!(Cole & Whitney) Parise has been around for a while and I'm sure he wants to go to a team that will be in a playoff run before he gets there. Suter not to sure of, but hopefully since he is young and has a connection with Muller he would consider the points that you brought up.

Not always, most/some like being "out of the limelight" here. They can raise a family and have a life unlike in Toronto/Montreal where everytime you break wind it is in the tabloids. It isn't all about the money or else Ruutu and Gleason would not have signed there extensions. Both would have gotten more money elsewhere. Montreal overpaid for Cole so I am glad we walked away from that, because another team is stupid doesn't mean we have to follow suit. My thought is that Whitney might have been an age thing, can be unpredictable (look at Brindy's last year).

[kermelbar]

And have I hit my head or something, but isn't there still a salary cap? Don't the smart players realize there comes a point they can only be paid so much and still have decent (i.e. potential Cup-winning) players rounding out the team?

[Fghtr4jc]

Originally Posted by kermelbar

Don't the smart players realize there comes a point they can only be paid so much and still have decent (i.e. potential Cup-winning) players rounding out the team?

I don't think anyone's realized that yet, but that's what these CBA negotiations are for!

All in all, Parise feels like a perfect fit. I'm still trying to figure out how many pieces we ship away to make room for Suter (I get he's a free agent, but it makes us even heavier on D), so I'm curious to see what the organization's plans would be if that happened.

[nccanes]

Originally Posted by Fghtr4jc

All in all, Parise feels like a perfect fit. I'm still trying to figure out how many pieces we ship away to make room for Suter (I get he's a free agent, but it makes us even heavier on D), so I'm curious to see what the organization's plans would be if that happened.

I think I posted this somewhere, but Michael Smith (Canes web guy) was asked this during a Q&A and said that it was not and "AND", but rather an "OR" when talking about Parise/Suter.

So it sounds like they are going to make room for one ....landing them, obviously a different story.

[ssangste]

the Smith thing seems to be a bit odd to me.... even though he's not the GM or a high official with the team, and it was a comment on twitter, wouldn't him even talking about players by name at this point be considered tampering? He is technically one of the voices being paid by the org.... so even if he's speculating and being a fan, it was during an "official Q&A" or whatever.

[nccanes]

Originally Posted by ssangste

the Smith thing seems to be a bit odd to me.... even though he's not the GM or a high official with the team, and it was a comment on twitter, wouldn't him even talking about players by name at this point be considered tampering? He is technically one of the voices being paid by the org.... so even if he's speculating and being a fan, it was during an "official Q&A" or whatever.

I thought it was a little odd too. I would have expected the response to reference media reports.

He did throw an extra 'maybe' in there - I guess that's his disclaimer.

[KaniacFever]

Originally Posted by ssangste

the Smith thing seems to be a bit odd to me.... even though he's not the GM or a high official with the team, and it was a comment on twitter, wouldn't him even talking about players by name at this point be considered tampering? He is technically one of the voices being paid by the org.... so even if he's speculating and being a fan, it was during an "official Q&A" or whatever.

It can't be anymore tampering than Dreger coming out and saying the Canes will pursue Parise and Suter.

I think tampering is more the team (GM, coaches) can't contact said player or agent prior to July 1st.

But let's get real here. Agents are calling GMs prior to get a feel on which teams are interested in their clients and how much they are willing to spend. It can only explain those signings that happen 10 minutes after free agency begins.

[nccanes]

Originally Posted by KaniacFever

It can't be anymore tampering than Dreger coming out and saying the Canes will pursue Parise and Suter.

Dreger isn't an employee of the Canes.

Originally Posted by KaniacFever

But let's get real here. Agents are calling GMs prior to get a feel on which teams are interested in their clients and how much they are willing to spend. It can only explain those signings that happen 10 minutes after free agency begins.

I don't mean to show my ignorance, but is it common knowledge that Agents shop their clients prior to Jul 1? I would think that's the definition of tampering if a GM holds that conversation.

Label it whatever you'd like, but I was surprised he directly answered that question. I would have thought he'd either direct them to the TSN "rumor" or say that the Canes were planning to enter the UFA market aggressively.

[KaniacFever]

I don't think its common knowledge, but how else can you explain signings being announced mere minutes after free agency starts. I guess they could have deal done / signed within 10 minutes of free agency starting, but I don't think so.

These guys know ahead of time on who is interested in them. I just don't think we can really expect that agents/GMs don't talk prior to 12pm July 1st.

And if Dreger is reporting, how is it much different. Apparently JR leaked somehow that he's pursuing these guys. Either way, no matter who reports, should be tampering, perse. No? Now Parise and Suter know that Carolina is interested in signing them. If either one were possbily interested, that might keep them from resigning with their respected clubs to hear what JR has to offer.

[nccanes]

Originally Posted by KaniacFever

I don't think its common knowledge, but how else can you explain signings being announced mere minutes after free agency starts. I guess they could have deal done / signed within 10 minutes of free agency starting, but I don't think so.

These guys know ahead of time on who is interested in them. I just don't think we can really expect that agents/GMs don't talk prior to 12pm July 1st.

But that's where tampering comes in. Say Bryan Allen wants to return. They couldn't get a deal done prior to the deadline. JR has the advantage in negotiating with Allen before the July 1. If other teams are talking to his agent and the agent tells Allen to sit tight for the big payday from team X (if that's what he wants) that's the definition of tampering. At least in my book. And why would teams ever trade for negotiation rights if they were worthless?

So I guess my question is - what would you define as tampering if that's not it?

As far as contracts signing on July 1. I presume the player and the agent know what they are looking for money wise and what they are looking for as far acceptable destinations. When the offers hit the inbox (or fax or wherever they hit), I presume the can make decisions pretty quickly.

But clearly, I really have no clue.

Originally Posted by KaniacFever

And if Dreger is reporting, how is it much different. Apparently JR leaked somehow that he's pursuing these guys. Either way, no matter who reports, should be tampering, perse. No? Now Parise and Suter know that Carolina is interested in signing them. If either one were possbily interested, that might keep them from resigning with their respected clubs to hear what JR has to offer.

Because Dreger is not naming his sources directly (unless I missed it) and he's not speaking FOR the organization. Mike Smith's sources are pretty obvious and he IS speaking for the org.

Maybe I'm completely off base. But I thought the tweet was odd in its specificity.

[KaniacFever]

^Never said it wasn't tapering. I just think when signings are announced mere minutes after free agency begins is a little suspicious to me. That's all. I just don't believe agents aren't putting feelers out there if their client wants to test the waters. It's sports and a business, you can sneak around. I mean shoot it happens in my line of work and we are just peons. In my type of work we have to sign these non-compete agreements and aren't able to 'take' other employees to your new company for atleast a year. Well I can tell ya everyone gets around it, the company just can't prove that we disobeyed the non-compete agreement.

Is it against the rules to tamper. Yes.
Do they actually obey the rules? Who knows, but i'm thinking those rules get broken now and then, it just can't be proved.

[livinthedream]

I think if you look across the multiple tweets Michael Smith retweeted and replied to on the topic, and look at them all in context during the Q&A session, his comments are more generic than specific (several references to "top tier FA"), at least that was how I took them when I read them.

But if you do take the individual tweet where Parise and Suter were specifically mentioned and his reply was "Not both. Maybe one." out of the context of the rest of the tweets, it is a gray area. I think he was implying that JR would likely go after one top tier FA and not two, and I don't think he intended to imply that he knew Parise or Suter were specifically being targeted.

But I can see and agree that in his role he needs to be more careful in his responses.

[SouthernHockeyChick]

^ That was how I took it too but, I'll admit, I have always looked more at both he and Branecky as fans with a tiny bit more info than me. For whatever reason, I just haven't felt like they really have that much insider info. Not sure what I'm basing that belief on, though.

[superdave]

Originally Posted by SouthernHockeyChick

^ That was how I took it too but, I'll admit, I have always looked more at both he and Branecky as fans with a tiny bit more info than me. For whatever reason, I just haven't felt like they really have that much insider info. Not sure what I'm basing that belief on, though.

For me it's that they pretty much come up with Mr. Obvious information...like...we won't be going after both Parise and Suter, it's either or.

[puck_it]

Sadly, I don't think we'll see parise... I think that he's a "break the bank" type player that karmanos has approved in the past, and will likely green light this... It depends on whether parise wants contender now or contender in a couple seasons.

that's said, parise could push our plan forward a couple notches....

I think suter is far more likely