Game Thread ... @ Detroit 3/24/2012

[DJHARLEY]

REALITY CHECK- BACK TO THE REAL WORLD = CANES HOCKEY!!!

PLEASE HAVE A FIRE SALE THIS SUMMER, THE CANES NEED A TOTAL REBUILD!!!


Up by 3 goals and lose not good!!

[superdave]

Originally Posted by DJHARLEY

REALITY CHECK- BACK TO THE REAL WORLD = CANES HOCKEY!!!

The reality check is that the Canes weren't going to keep the pace up that it had been playing since January with no slip-ups. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the playoffs have been out of the question before the Thanksgiving turkeys came out of the freezer. This year's Canes are like last year's Devils; too little too late.

Originally Posted by DJHARLEY

PLEASE HAVE A FIRE SALE THIS SUMMER, THE CANES NEED A TOTAL REBUILD!!!

This team needs a couple of pieces and not a total rebuild. The coaching staff got a total rebuild and that was needed. The team needs a top line winger, a second line center, and maybe an upgrade at a d-man position. A player or two may have to be traded away to make that happen, but I wouldn't call that a total rebuild.

And for the love of God...STOP YELLING!

[KaniacFever]

Agree with Superdave, this team is just a few pieces away and is no where near a total rebuild. A total rebuild woud consist of trading Staal and Ward and well that is just assinine at this point in time.

Let's see if JR can get his top winger and what else is done. I think if things fall in place over the summer, this team is back in contention. No need for a full on rebuild.

[nccanes]

Yeah, when you realize that if we'd won even half of our OT/SO losses, we'd be right around the cut line.

Or simply just won 3 more games they'd be sniffing the cut line.

I realize there is validity in the fact that this is now season 3 of this saga, so there's a point to be made. But I don't think total rebuild makes much sense.

But adding SKILLED players is a must.

[superdave]

Originally Posted by nccanes

Yeah, when you realize that if we'd won even half of our OT/SO losses, we'd be right around the cut line.

Or simply just won 3 more games they'd be sniffing the cut line.

I realize there is validity in the fact that this is now season 3 of this saga, so there's a point to be made. But I don't think total rebuild makes much sense.

But adding SKILLED players is a must.

I think one thing that has held this team back for 3 years has been taken care of during the season. However, this team can not continue to lose players like Whitney, Cole, Cullen, Brindy (retirement)etc. and replace them with pieces from the Island of Misfit Toys.

[nccanes]

^Agreed on both accounts. Cole's season: WOW! (and he even got a "slow start" which I thought was terribly unfair at the time anyway)

Question because we didn't watch a second of the pregame stuff for either this game or Columbus. Any discussion of why Cam in back to backs again?

[MoBigRed]

I had a dream last night that the next game was on and Boucher was finally back in net - but on the starting goaltenders graphic, instead of 'Boucher', it called him 'Dumbass'. I was quite irked by it and went on a bit of a tirade, defending his play.

But i wonder if that might be the case - has Boucher lost the team's confidence this season the same way so many other Hurricane backups have lost the team's confidence? If so, JR might need to hit the drawing board once again and search for a dependable backup (please note i think Boucher is quite dependable, but it has been a rough season for him and i definitely don't get the vibe that the powers that be have enough confidence in him to make next season any different).

I just wonder if, to go back to Mo terminology, Ward was played back-to-back because 'he gives us our best chance to win'.

[nccanes]

Originally Posted by MoBigRed

I just wonder if, to go back to Mo terminology, Ward was played back-to-back because 'he gives us our best chance to win'.

One thing that I think has finally been dispelled (if people are being honest) is that Mo's penchant to lean on Cam was not unique, nor was his choice to play LaRose the way he did. Both situations have continued under Muller.

It does seem that until we have a team that is IN the top 8 playoff spots, Cam is going to play (too much) and until we have additional top end talent, Chad will get the opportunity. I have no issues with the latter (other than the fact that we need top talent on our top line -- and that's zero offense to Chad), but some with the former.

[DJHARLEY]

Originally Posted by superdave

The reality check is that the Canes weren't going to keep the pace up that it had been playing since January with no slip-ups. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the playoffs have been out of the question before the Thanksgiving turkeys came out of the freezer. This year's Canes are like last year's Devils; too little too late.



This team needs a couple of pieces and not a total rebuild. The coaching staff got a total rebuild and that was needed. The team needs a top line winger, a second line center, and maybe an upgrade at a d-man position. A player or two may have to be traded away to make that happen, but I wouldn't call that a total rebuild.

And for the love of God...STOP YELLING!

Well SD, I just think that it will end up costing us a lot of guys traded because our guys don't have the value as to the type of guys we need. To me it will take 2 or 3 players and maybe a draft pick or 2 to get the style/type of players the Canes need. Example- Mcbain + Pits and maybe a draft pick for Suter, or LaRose + Nodle + Brent for Parise! That is why I consider it a total rebuild because it will take so many of our 3rd and 4th line players to get 1 or 2 top line players. Plus all you guys know what main trade I would like but I won't even bring that one up again.,,lol and SD sorry about the yelling but I was yelling at my TV so I didn't want my computer to feel left out!!

[superdave]

Originally Posted by DJHARLEY

Well SD, I just think that it will end up costing us a lot of guys traded because our guys don't have the value as to the type of guys we need. To me it will take 2 or 3 players and maybe a draft pick or 2 to get the style/type of players the Canes need. Example- Mcbain + Pits and maybe a draft pick for Suter, or LaRose + Nodle + Brent for Parise! That is why I consider it a total rebuild because it will take so many of our 3rd and 4th line players to get 1 or 2 top line players. Plus all you guys know what main trade I would like but I won't even bring that one up again.,,lol and SD sorry about the yelling but I was yelling at my TV so I didn't want my computer to feel left out!!

JR won't have to sacrifice players to get Parise or Suter, just money. I personally call it a "rebuild" when you start trading away top skilled players like Staal and elite, world class goalies like Cam Ward.

[MoBigRed]

Originally Posted by nccanes

One thing that I think has finally been dispelled (if people are being honest) is that Mo's penchant to lean on Cam was not unique, nor was his choice to play LaRose the way he did. Both situations have continued under Muller.

It does seem that until we have a team that is IN the top 8 playoff spots, Cam is going to play (too much) and until we have additional top end talent, Chad will get the opportunity. I have no issues with the latter (other than the fact that we need top talent on our top line -- and that's zero offense to Chad), but some with the former.

Agreed. I was irked enough with LaRose's stupid penalties to make a post or two about them, but a couple GWGs shut me up, in much the same way Skinner's solid play has kept me from making more of a stink over his stupid penalties. LaRose never billed himself to be a top-line winger, but he's done everything that was asked of him and given it his best. Agreed, i'd rather have the second coming of Brett Hull up there, but until we find him, again, LaRose has given it his all when put in that position (i do still wish he'd cut back on the ill-timed penalties, mind you ).

Absolutely right on overplaying Ward as well. Not sure what it's going to take to lighten Ward's workload (particularly when all reports are that Ward wants the heavy workload) - JR signs Brodeur as a backup and i think Muller would probably put him in the mix - but that's just silly, no?

[nccanes]

Originally Posted by DJHARLEY

To me it will take 2 or 3 players and maybe a draft pick or 2 to get the style/type of players the Canes need. Example- Mcbain + Pits and maybe a draft pick for Suter, or LaRose + Nodle + Brent for Parise! That is why I consider it a total rebuild because it will take so many of our 3rd and 4th line players to get 1 or 2 top line players. Plus all you guys know what main trade I would like but I won't even bring that one up again.,,lol and SD sorry about the yelling but I was yelling at my TV so I didn't want my computer to feel left out!!

Parise and Suter are going to be Unrestricted Free Agents on July 1. "All" it will take will be money (and convincing them to sign here). Not that Nodl/LaRose/Brent would land Parise in a million years anyway.

JR has got his work cut out for him this summer, but it appears that PK has told him there will be money to work with.

[DJHARLEY]

Originally Posted by nccanes

Parise and Suter are going to be Unrestricted Free Agents on July 1. "All" it will take will be money (and convincing them to sign here). Not that Nodl/LaRose/Brent would land Parise in a million years anyway.

JR has got his work cut out for him this summer, but it appears that PK has told him there will be money to work with.

Sorry I wasn't more specific, Yes, it will take money to bring in guys like that but You have to make room on the roster and In the payroll to get guys like that. Those guys I mentioned (in previous post to be traded) would have to go somewhere else to make room for them. in the roster and payroll. Guess I should have also said they (if their contract is only thru the end of the year) they just might get released to make that room in both places. So to me if you have to get rid of 4,5,6,players with lower pay to get 1 or 2 guys with high pay, its a huge change/firesale to get the pieces to fit. Then you have to fill those extra spots with prospects from the Checkers because you don't have or are willing to spend the extra money at that time for 4th line players. OR you never know we may have to give up some draftee's or get some for some players to get some of the right pieces to get the Canes over the hump and be able to make a run at the playoffs!

[superdave]

Originally Posted by DJHARLEY

Sorry I wasn't more specific, Yes, it will take money to bring in guys like that but You have to make room on the roster and In the payroll to get guys like that. Those guys I mentioned (in previous post to be traded) would have to go somewhere else to make room for them. in the roster and payroll. Guess I should have also said they (if their contract is only thru the end of the year) they just might get released to make that room in both places. So to me if you have to get rid of 4,5,6,players with lower pay to get 1 or 2 guys with high pay, its a huge change/firesale to get the pieces to fit. Then you have to fill those extra spots with prospects from the Checkers because you don't have or are willing to spend the extra money at that time for 4th line players. OR you never know we may have to give up some draftee's or get some for some players to get some of the right pieces to get the Canes over the hump and be able to make a run at the playoffs!

There is not enough "extra payroll" laying around by getting rid of league minimum guys to sign Parise. It's going to take a crowbar to PK's checkbook. At least we aren't hung out there with Kaberle's deal.

[nccanes]

Originally Posted by DJHARLEY

Sorry I wasn't more specific, Yes, it will take money to bring in guys like that but You have to make room on the roster and In the payroll to get guys like that. Those guys I mentioned (in previous post to be traded) would have to go somewhere else to make room for them. in the roster and payroll. Guess I should have also said they (if their contract is only thru the end of the year) they just might get released to make that room in both places. So to me if you have to get rid of 4,5,6,players with lower pay to get 1 or 2 guys with high pay, its a huge change/firesale to get the pieces to fit. Then you have to fill those extra spots with prospects from the Checkers because you don't have or are willing to spend the extra money at that time for 4th line players. OR you never know we may have to give up some draftee's or get some for some players to get some of the right pieces to get the Canes over the hump and be able to make a run at the playoffs!

First off, adding Parise (or someone expected to play with Staal) is ONE player. To add 1 player to a roster, you then remove....1 player. Considering we have Derek Joslin playing one of our forward positions, it stands to reason that we've got that room (and trading away 1 player, not qualifying 1 player, not re-signing a UFA, etc... is not difficult anyway). Financially, I guess we just have to wait and see. JR has said PK has given him a green light to spend money, and that has made it all the way to the TSN Insiders, so it stands to reason they'll have some room.

Second, I'd be surprised to find any team that doesn't make changes to the roster in the off season. They aren't all firesales/rebuilding. And finally, turning over your 3rd/4th liners is not really rebuilding. Giving up high end talent to gather young/cheap prospects/picks is what I call rebuilding.

Firesales (to me anyway) usually come at the deadline and it's a mean to save money when you know you're toast on the season. That doesn't happen much anymore because everyone who is a trading partner is dealing with their own cap issues.

[SoCalcaniac]

Originally Posted by nccanes

It does seem that until we have a team that is IN the top 8 playoff spots, Cam is going to play (too much) and until we have additional top end talent, Chad will get the opportunity. I have no issues with the latter (other than the fact that we need top talent on our top line -- and that's zero offense to Chad), but some with the former.

Agreed on both points. I don't even know how we'd ever address the play-Cam-too-much thing, because as we've all noted, it's a running theme, and it's his desire to do so. I really don't believe Boucher is completely healthy for some reason, but taking that aside; I would prefer that someone figure out a way to rest Cam, cause if we were truly in the hunt/in the 8 spot, we'd be in, but would it be like '09 playoffs, we're good in 2 rounds, and granted Cam did get hurt in 3rd round, but he was also worn down.

So our arch rivals the Slugs are running Miller "til the end" according to one of their beat writers who was on XM this morning- Miller and Cam have similar situations, in that they're the guy; although one would argue Enroth would be fine to play more games. There are a few teams who will run their goalies til the bitter end, It's almost as if it's just the way. San Jose, LA, DAL, PIT, NYR etc all are doing down to the wire with their guy, I think OTT & STL are truly the only teams who run a tandem. Times have changed for sure.

On Chad and his 1st line status- With this Coach, he walks his talk- and his talk is always about accountability/rewarding hard work; right now, Chad is following what Coach Kirk is preaching, while Ruutu has found his way off the original line, and I personally think, has more to give. Until we find that true 1st line player to play with #12, I really don't have a problem with Chad there, and I never have really- because nobody will ever accuse him of not trying or working hard. It's just not going to happen.

What these last few games have said to me and I'm sure all of y'all will agree (for the most part, lol), is Coach Kirk can only do some much with the roster he has. But I'd say he's gotten everything he can out of what is in front of him.

[DJHARLEY]

Originally Posted by nccanes

First off, adding Parise (or someone expected to play with Staal) is ONE player. To add 1 player to a roster, you then remove....1 player. Considering we have Derek Joslin playing one of our forward positions, it stands to reason that we've got that room (and trading away 1 player, not qualifying 1 player, not re-signing a UFA, etc... is not difficult anyway). Financially, I guess we just have to wait and see. JR has said PK has given him a green light to spend money, and that has made it all the way to the TSN Insiders, so it stands to reason they'll have some room.

Second, I'd be surprised to find any team that doesn't make changes to the roster in the off season. They aren't all firesales/rebuilding. And finally, turning over your 3rd/4th liners is not really rebuilding. Giving up high end talent to gather young/cheap prospects/picks is what I call rebuilding.

Firesales (to me anyway) usually come at the deadline and it's a mean to save money when you know you're toast on the season. That doesn't happen much anymore because everyone who is a trading partner is dealing with their own cap issues.

I was talking more the money end of it not just the roster spot. IMO Parise would cost the same as 3 or 4 players paychecks that are our 3rd & 4th lines. That was where I came up with that, again its just my opinion but we haven't been big money spenders over the last few years. And I hope the T Kabs mistake doesn't hurt us down the road.

[andyt]

Originally Posted by DJHARLEY

I was talking more the money end of it not just the roster spot. IMO Parise would cost the same as 3 or 4 players paychecks that are our 3rd & 4th lines. That was where I came up with that, again its just my opinion but we haven't been big money spenders over the last few years. And I hope the T Kabs mistake doesn't hurt us down the road.

Unless it makes JR gunshy about signing a player whose skills have clearly diminished, I'm not sure how the Kaberle signing hurts us. We didn't have to buy him out, we don't owe him any money.

And it's not always all about the money. Nashville has a good chance of finishing 4th in the Western Conference with a Canes-sized payroll. It's about having the right mix of players and the right coaches in place. JR already addressed #2.

[DJHARLEY]

Originally Posted by andyt

Unless it makes JR gunshy about signing a player whose skills have clearly diminished, I'm not sure how the Kaberle signing hurts us. We didn't have to buy him out, we don't owe him any money.

And it's not always all about the money. Nashville has a good chance of finishing 4th in the Western Conference with a Canes-sized payroll. It's about having the right mix of players and the right coaches in place. JR already addressed #2.

Yes that is exactly what I was thinking, The gunshy part! And yes we do need a few more players for our weak spots!

[caveman]

Well, the Kaberle signing did hurt IMHO. It was reactionary when if we'd been more confident in what we had with Faulk, we absolutely wouldn't have done it. And that money could have been used to sign a scorer. Absolutely not pinning a "wasted year" entirely on the Kaberle signing, but it was a contributor.